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Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?

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  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    Those big bombers were good cars... compared to a Gremlin or a Pinto. The build quality was haphazard, the performance was awful, the interior design was horrific, the material quality was dubious, the reliability was a joke, etc. As bad as they were, the alternative was a Monza or Chevette or a used-up, worn-out, base-model '60s car. People who suffered in those disco disasters on wheels thought they'd died and gone to heaven once they overcame their prejudices and drove an '85 Accord or Maxima.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    I'd still take a GNX anyday over most new cars.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    I dunno; I'd rather have a R32 Skyline or MkIV Supra or Z32 300ZX (since we're talking turbo sixes). Or a Falcon XR6T.

    Anyone think Cadillac will ever sell a gas engine with a turbo?
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    I'm a huge fan of superchargers myself. Easy way to get loads of power, though they have to do more than 2-3 PSI boost. Oh look - we boosted the engine 30hp! Yet the same unit aftermarktet, people are getting 80-100hp more out of.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    Turbos work better on high-revving engines thanks to the progressive nature of the centrifugal charger. Big old lumbering pushrods do well with a nice Lysholm supercharger. No self-respecting automaker should ever put a Roots blower in a vehicle again.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    Superchargers also work well in small engines if they are designed correctly. They used them on the original Ferraris(and on a lot of other race cars), and they had 2.0L V12 engines.

    The closest modern equivalent would be something like the Mercedes Kompressor models. A great way to get V6 power out of a tiny engine.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,476
    Don't forget 2002-2006 MINI Cooper S...

    They have little Eaton Superchargers.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    Put a smaller pully on the s/c and make it spin faster ;)
  • mediapushermediapusher Posts: 305
    Cooterbfd-

    Perhaps GM cars have always been fine for people that are only going to keep their cars 1 or 3 years, ( I believe that's what their business model was based on for many many years), however most of us aren't that rich

    And.... I didn't grow up on GM cars. My dad hated them. He was always driving something German, whether it be BMW, Mercedes, Volkwagen or Saab. He didn't have anything nice to say about the Saab.

    And what does growing up on something have to do with anything? I grew up with Vaseline Lotion. When I got smarter and older, I switched to the lotion that Avalon Organics and Aveda makes (both have botanical as opposed to petroleum ingredients, they are of much better quality, they don't clog your pores, they have no artifical glue-like smells)

    _________________

    reference text:::::
    Lem, It's no use talking to him. I grew up in GM cars, have owned nothing but GM cars in 23 yrs. of driving, and NEVER had a major repair. Maybe he should change his name to GM buttonpusher
  • mediapushermediapusher Posts: 305
    Cooterbfd-

    If you've had good experiences with GM cars, well GOOD for you. I can only go by own experience and experiences that my friends have had out here on the west coast with their TERRIBLE products. And believe me, the experiences have been deplorable.

    One of the problems among many that GM has is they're too big for their britches. There seems to be a distinctlack of synergy with that corporation.
    _____________________
    reference text::::::
    SSSSSSSSSSSHHHH!!! Don't let mediapusher hear us talk like this, he won't believe it and make a stink to prove it.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    GM's quality is almost entirely dependant upon which model you are looking at.

    Anything that is sent off to the rental fleets are churned out with the cheapest components and engines that they make. The stuff that never gets sold to fleets, OTOH, is easily as reliable and nice as anything Toyota or Honda makes - or so close that it comes down to personal preference.

    It's really two GMs that we deal with - the OMG it's such junk low-end and the "really nice" top end - with almnost nothing inbetween. And the good/bad line sometimes has some odd areas where it takes a left turn, like the Lucerne.

    The base Lucerne is rental fodder and with the 3800 engine, nasty suspension, and a plain vanilla interior, it sucks. The CXS with the Northstar V8, the Cadillac suspension(same technology as they use on the Corvette - just tuned much softer), and a great interior... like two different vehicles.

    My guess is that GM has a couple of production lines set aside for purely rental/fleet sales. They make no money on these - in fact lose some, and so there's just no incentive anywhere to really double-check the quality. I'd not do it either if I were running the company(shoot, I'd get rid of ALL fleet sales entirely and drop all "base" models as well).

    Your friends "out west" almost certainly had the rental fodder/more basic boxes. Oh - this also holds true for Ford - some cars are utter rubbish while others are great.

    Take for instance, the last four cars my parents have had. 2 Lesabres and two Park Avenues. All four were top-trim "Ultra" or "Limited" models. They are/were indestructible and lasted 18 and 17 years, plus 12 on the current Park Ave and 8 on the current LeSabre. Very little work done on the Last two(the first two cost more to maintain, but the idea that they fall apart after 3-4 years... 18 years is a good run for any car.)

    Yes, the 12 year old Park Ave and the 8 year old LeSabre still run just fine with well over 100K on each of them.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,602
    Minor detail: Saab's are Sweedish, yah sure... Well they were Sweedish pre-GM! Your Dad sounds a bit like my Dad. Growing up in the 60s, 70s: Borgward, MB, Saab, VW, Datsun (260Z: Fab. Stanza: dullest, slowest car we've ever had. But, reliable), Renault!. He gave up on domestics in the early 70s. But he came back to the fold in the mid 90s. Only bummer was the (he felt) fun to drive but more shop time than road time Cadillac Catera. The Caddy that zigged, straight to the shop! His Chrylser Concorde and my mother's Sebring Convertible caused them no pain. But, he loves his TL more than any of the domestics he had. 'Till he traded it for a Camry Hybrid. Now all he talks about is how infrequently he has to fill the gas tank!

    In my 25 years of car buying, I had never bought a domestic 'till my '99 Chrysler 300M. Really enjoyed that car. While not as well built or as completely reliable as my Japaneese fleet, I really have nothing bad to say about it. But, I wasn't going to keep it past 70,000 miles. Traded it for a TL in '05. Fab car...

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • mediapushermediapusher Posts: 305
    Laurasada-

    That's what I'm talking about, how can they live with themselves realeasing such junk :lemon: Cadillac Catera :lemon:?? How fast can you say, bland subpar exterior design for a Cadillac, and electrical system nightmare??. What's really sad is the rebadged Opel that they used for the Cadillac Catera is probably a decent car- but not when GM put their poison wrench on it. i know that was 5 years ago, but that's not that long ago by car manufacturing standards.

    Check on the STS-Is-it-good-quality board and see what an owner has to say about a 2005 STS :\.. Standard of the world... puhleeease.

    And Plekto, why in the world would GM even bother with providing rental fleets? All the financial mess they have with pensions, health care, etc..It's ridiculous.

    Hmmm, we (U.S.A.) have merely become the test track for General Motors. A sad state of affairs, but true.
  • mediapushermediapusher Posts: 305
    Plekto does Acura make a hybrid version of the Acura TL. I love that car. It's my dream.. If I owned one, I'd pet it every night. :)

    If I could buy one 12 years old in perfect condition I would, and I'd stick a new engine in it...Great cars

    PIcture an Acura TL gussied up from the talented crew on MTV's Pimp My Ride...delicious
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,898
    why in the world would GM even bother with providing rental fleets? All the financial mess they have with pensions, health care, etc..It's ridiculous.

    You answered your own question. They have to keep people working or pay them to sit in a rubber room. At least if they break even selling to fleets they have them working and it is not a total loss on labor costs.

    I wanted to rent an Escalade this last trip to Hawaii. They were all booked up months in advance. They have a bunch of them on the Big Island. I ended up with the little TrailBlazer. It was a bit cramped when we had 5 adults and one child. Some body has to provide vehicles for the rental fleets. I see more Chryslers than any other brand.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    Two points:
    1 - the Catera was a small part of Cadillac's total sales
    2 - I think the the 1999 Catera is the one with the electrical problems. I think the years before and after 1999 were more reliable.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,506
    In May - not very impressive:

    http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewmonthlyreleasedetail.do?domain=3&docid=36708

    GM = up overall.
    Caddy = down 14.7% vs last May.
    Caddy = down 18.2% vs last Cal YTD.

    Not very encouraging...
    - Ray
    Seeing EVERY caddy model down...
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,898
    I thought the Escalade was up this year over last.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,506
    "I thought the Escalade was up this year over last. "

    Correct - I left 1 word out:
    Caddy CAR models...
    I suppose Caddy may see Trucks and SUVs as their salvation.
    Sorry,
    - Ray
    I don't............
  • aldwaldw Posts: 82
    Here's a good article that touches on what American luxury was and needs to be:

    http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070601/FREE/70531001/1530/FREE
  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    Agreed. You can't build a lasting luxury franchise around trucks. You've got to have fast, sexy, drool-worthy cars. Look at BMW & MB. They don't need to sell trucks to pay the rent.

    Anyway, if my NYC suburb is an accurate reflection of the changing tastes of the affluent, the Range Rover is now the favorite expensive SUV. I'm seeing fewer Escalades than I was a couple of years ago. Successful plumbing contractors still drive 'em, but the Wall St. investment banker types have fallen in love with the RR.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,572
    It's the same around here. The RR is the darling of highly paid execs and Stepford wives alike. The Escalade still makes a statement, but it seems less are wanting to make that statement (not that I personally see a RR as being much different).

    I notice lots of kids are drooling over RRs too, and some of the younger trust funders around here actually get one (or the keys to their moms)

    Caddy needs to keep up the progress with its cars. Don't stop now, as the competition jumps ahead all the time.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,476
    The RR is seen as more understated luxury then the flashy Slade. You have to know its capablities and how it is made to understand why it costs so much.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    Oh it lives!!!

    I keep my GM vehicles for 10 years on average, not 3. My friends on the east coast have had mixed results with ALL makes, including my friend who's '00 Accord went :lemon: :lemon: :lemon: on him at only 130k. Another friend bought a '98 Accord coupe w/ 120k on it that she HAD to have for 8 grand, even though I showed her an ad for a '97 Acura coupe (same car, essentially) w/65k miles for $6,800, and she lost the tranny 2 MONTHS LATER (private buy, sorry Charlie). They aren't posting here, and neither are your friends, I believe. MOST of the people here SEEM to have an unremarkable experience w/ GM, not great, but not TERRIBLE. YOU seem to be the only one that cries the blues over GM here.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    lemko:
    I had a beautiful 1979 Buick Electra Park Avenue isn Charcoal Grey Firemist with a silver top and "Oyster" leather interior and the chrome factory wheels. It also had that excellent 403 V-8. I had absolutely no problems with that car. Unfortunately, I totalled it in an accident in 1989

    pletko:

    Take for instance, the last four cars my parents have had. 2 Lesabres and two Park Avenues. All four were top-trim "Ultra" or "Limited" models. They are/were indestructible and lasted 18 and 17 years, plus 12 on the current Park Ave and 8 on the current LeSabre. Very little work done on the Last two(the first two cost more to maintain, but the idea that they fall apart after 3-4 years... 18 years is a good run for any car.)

    laurasdada:

    In my 25 years of car buying, I had never bought a domestic 'till my '99 Chrysler 300M. Really enjoyed that car. While not as well built or as completely reliable as my Japaneese fleet, I really have nothing bad to say about it. But, I wasn't going to keep it past 70,000 miles

    displacedtexan:

    My Mom's 1978 Olds 98 was also very reliable. I don't recall my Dad grousing about any mechanical problems

    I don't see any BAD comments about TERRIBLE products here, do you?
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    Culled from our friends at Autoblog:

    The new issue of Motor Trend arrived in the mail and our eyes were instantly attracted to this story that just went live on motortrend.com. The MT crew has learned that the supercharged V8 slated for use in the next-gen Cadillac CTS-V will be none other than a "detuned" version of the 7.0L LS7 powerplant debuting in the Corvette Blue Devil, or rather, Corvette Z07. The MT editors expect the version used in the CTS-V to produce about 600 horsepower, or around 100 horses short of what the Z07 will produce.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,898
    The Escalade is the only Cadillac that interests me. Can't get the wife to like the looks. She likes the comfort and ride. Just waiting for a nice luxury SUV with diesel to hit CA dealers. Or I may buy one out of state. I would rather get 30 MPG on the HWY than 18-20 MPG.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    HMMMM....Imagine that Escalade w/ a Duramax and Allison auto.....
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,898
    V6 diesel would be plenty for me. I am not interested in 0-60, I want 600-800 miles between fuel stops. I was happy with the Sprinter diesel 5 cylinder with tiptronic 5 speed. Great engine and transmission. Maybe the new CAFE regs will wake up the manufacturers.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Do not look for diesels here in US soon. The new emission regs for diesels will knock out all those being sold today and the near future. Not sure when they go into effect though. Does anybody?

    I do know that the emission systems out now to meet todays regs are very expensive.
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