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Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?

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  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    what does overdone mean? Too flashy?

    How are the plastics not as good as the German? I have never been in one but if it is like our last SRX most of the interior is covered with handsewn leather/vinyl. Very little "plastic" but what there was was hard to tell it was hard unless you touched it.

    The next sts/dts will be bigger than the CTS so it will be more of a 7 size. Probably priced where the STS and DTS is today with more upside. Not sure what you mean by smaller and larger ends. price? Perhaps they have a extended wheelbase version which is very possible.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    They did comment that the SRX's interior was better. I think that the finish on the plastic is what they are getting at.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    That's the car they SHOULD make. I think Lutz is wrong on this one. Even if they strengthened CAFE, there would be so few built (1000-1500/yr) it would have little impact on the results.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    "I think you overestimate their chances."

    100 a year is more realistic, unless you build 1000 in a single batch, then store them in a warehouse and finish them to order over the next few years. Cadillac needs to build a credible S-class before they think about aiming at Maybach.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    No, it's more like...

    Cadillac needs to build a credible 5-series before they start thinking about the S-class then Maybach/RR.

    Apparently the new CTS is still a 3.5-series kind of car. Not quiet a 3-series but not yet a 5-series. Maybe Caddy should rename the CTS as 436DI.

    :P
  • it is like our last SRX most of the interior is covered with handsewn leather/vinyl.

    I seriously doubt it is handsewn.

    It is automated by some machine.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048

    The leather is hand-sewn, just like that found in the STS-V and XLR-V. The SRX will benefit from Cadillac's new "cut and sew" technique that employs craftsmen to cut, stitch, stretch, and install many of the interior's leather panels. This enables such upscale details as French stitching, and GM hopes it will also eliminate the large gaps and poor fitment they've come to be known for.

    Jim Taylor, Cadillac's General Manager hopes the old-world charm of hand craftsmanship will help lure more customers to the SRX, saying, "The SRX is the latest and most complete example of our new approach to interiors, blending advanced technology with the hand craftsmanship that was once, and is again becoming, a Cadillac trademark."
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    The U.S. President still rides in a Cadillac. But more than three out of four Americans who buy a luxury car these days opt for a European or Japanese model.

    Nowhere has the Detroit-based carmakers' loss of market share been more dramatic than in the luxury segment.

    General Motors, Ford Motor and Chrysler sold fewer than half of all light vehicles in the U.S. for the first time in July. But foreign brands captured 78.3 percent of the luxury market. Their share rose further to 79.4 percent in August, according to Autodata, a market research group.

    What is more, the luxury segment is growing faster than most others and is expected to be relatively resilient in the face of the softening economy.

    "We haven't seen anything [of a downturn] in the U.S. so far, and don't expect anything in our business for the remainder of the year," Dieter Zetsche, chief executive of DaimlerChrysler Lexus, Toyota's luxury brand and the market leader, reported a 5.2 percent gain in sales in the first eight months of the year, compared with January-August 2006. BMW's sales were up 8.7 percent, and Audi's 10.8 percent.

    Audi, Volkswagen's premium brand, last week said it had set a target of more than doubling U.S. sales by 2015. It plans to retool its dealer network and develop a small sports-utility vehicle.

    GM, Ford and Chrysler gave the foreigners an opening in the 1990s by focusing on SUVs and pick-up trucks. GM's Cadillac brand was outsold by Lexus, BMW and Mercedes-Benz in the first eight months of this year.

    Ford neglected Lincoln, its domestic luxury brand, instead acquiring four European-based carmakers: Jaguar, Volvo, Land Rover and Aston Martin. Lincoln sales have also fallen behind Honda's Acura.

    Cadillac gained a new lease of life in 2002 with a flurry of new models, notably the CTS saloon and the big Escalade SUV. But it has recently run out of steam, with sales down more than 10 percent so far this year.

    Demand for Cadillac's SRX crossover has been flat while rival Acura MDX is up by 13 percent. The Lexus RX outsells the SRX four-to-one.

    Cadillac is banking on a fresh boost from a new CTS. A hybrid Escalade will follow next year. Lincoln has also recently launched a flurry of new models.

    But Tom Libby, director of vehicle analysis at consultancy JD Power, says Cadillac and Lincoln are not perceived as having the same quality as a Lexus."

    One problem in Mr. Libby's view is that the two domestic brands do not have image-enhancing, top-of-the-line models to compete with BMW's 7-Series and Mercedes' S-Class.

    A Cadillac spokesman said it plans to fill that gap, but declined to elaborate. But the foreigners are not sitting still. Mr. Libby points to Mercedes' and BMW's success in extending their range of vehicles to derivatives such as sports models and SUVs.

    At last week's Frankfurt auto show, BMW premiered the X6, a "sports activity coupé" that combines elements of an SUV and a sports car and is due to go on sale next year.

    Lexus has expanded the luxury image to its dealerships. One $75 million outlet that opened in Newport Beach, California, last year includes marble floors, a grand piano, a games room and a café.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Although the upgrades probably won’t send CTS sales barreling past those of its rivals, they place the car on firmer footing against the best from Germany and Japan.
    Inside, nary a floor mat is carried over from the previous model. Thoroughly modern, high-tech and luxurious, the interior surpasses what most will expect from a car of this ilk.
    Infotainment and heating/air conditioning controls are less intuitive on this model, but with several redundant buttons and a dial that centralizes several functions, operation becomes second nature quickly enough.

    The ’08 CTS isn’t merely an improvement on the previous generation. The redesign marks a giant leap that takes the car out from among the also-rans in a crowded segment and puts it right alongside those at the head of the class.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    This has the sound of self serving GM/Cadillac propaganda. Automobile's comparison does agree that the CTS's new interior is much better than the first generation interior, which they felt was below the standard for the class (which is the 3-series). The new interior is now on a par with the class, but they feel that the SRX's interior is better.
  • And they are building these models in the US using union labor?

    Be interesting to see the procedure they are using to keep costs down. That kind of work is very expensive.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    The picture that Cadillac wants one to have in mind is that of a room full of grandmothers sewing with a needle and thread.

    It is far more likely that machines are used, but someone make be guiding them. My SRX has leather covered seats. I am not sure that there is leather anywhere else though. The dash is covered with a softish material, with a finish that does not look leatherish. The armrests could be covered with leather - not sure. However, there are stiches visible even on hard plasic parts...
    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/MediaNav/articleId=117281/firstNav=Gallery/- photoId=32522

    In the above picture, the light colored stuff on the console is hard plastic, which has stiching...

    I will comment on my SRX door panels. The material used under the windows is the same stuff on the dash, and has a softish feel to it. Under this is a piece of wood trim (real I think), and then there is a soft trim material which could be vinyl or leather, with stiches in it. Then there is the armrest. Below the armrest on the front doors is a storage bin (a nice touch), but this is hard plasic. With the doors closed, the lower part of the door is not all that visible, so the hard plastic is not a big deal.

    In the good old days, eBay Motors has a lot of good picture, GM luxury door panels were covered with soft vinyl from the armrest down, with the lowest part covered with carpet. I think the addition of storage bins in todays cars is better than a soft vinyl armrest to extended downward, but the hard plastic could have a bit of carpet covering it.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,567
    What is the source of this 'review'?

    Reminds me of one of those advertising 'stories' in recent mags, or a Sunday paper 'review'.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    This has the sound of self serving GM/Cadillac propaganda

    Every article from the media I read says the CTS interior is top notch. So it must be that they are all reading the same GM pitch and writing down what they are told to write. Darn that C&D and the rest of them, bought out by GM.

    The only one I heard of that says anything somewhat bad (except for a poorly located cupholder) is the Automobile mag which I have not read.

    The car has been out for awhile and there are all kinds of media stories out there. Can anybody find a link that supports a deficient interior in the CTS?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    And they are building these models in the US using union labor?

    Do you have any info on this? I really doubt it and cannot find where they are doing it.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    The picture that Cadillac wants one to have in mind is that of a room full of grandmothers sewing with a needle and thread.

    :D

    They are probably made just like the seats. Most of the seat sources (Lear, JCI, etc.) have a plant in Mexico or some other low paid nation with a bunch of people using sewing machines to stich the seats together. In there own right they are craftsman. The same sources make the interior IP and doors so they are probably also sewing the parts.

    http://www.cadillac.com/cadillacjsp/model/gallery.jsp?model=cts&year=2008&id=3&p- rimary=4

    Per the website they call it stiched accents so probably some of the interior is vinyl. And today the vinyls used are hard to tell from leather and in some cases even have a better hand. i.e. silk infused leather
  • I was asking if the interior bits were made in the US with union labor or if it was being outsuorced. I have no idea where they are making them I just doubt they could afford to do that at US Labor rates.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    For almost sure they are not union made or in the states. Most likely Mexico. Lear alone has 11 plants in Mexico. Could also be JCI or others.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    Car & Drive did not do a comparison test, Automobile did. Motor Trend's test was not a comparison either.

    Automobile did not say the interior was bad, only a bit overdone, but still much better than the old. Motor Trend indicates that the DI engine has a noise, vibration, hashness problem, that GM has indicated there is no solution for, short of an entirely new engine design.

    You are the one who thought that the CTS was now ready to take over the BMW 5-series, Mercedes E-class market.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    LOL.....MT is a joke !!!!!

    Motor Trend->Japanese=Good

    Motor Trend->GM=Bad

    :sick:

    -Rocky
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    You are the one who thought that the CTS was now ready to take over the BMW 5-series, Mercedes E-class market.

    I never said that. :confuse: I have never been in the new CTS much less drive one so I cannot make that kind of determination. I asked that since the CTS is about 5 size could it stand in the same league as the 5 at a much lower price and would the media do comparisons that way. It looks like it may have a couple issues that make it perfect in that range, but then again it is $20k cheaper or so.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    My bad, I guess louiswei is the one who made that claim. However, when I said the interior would need an upgrade, you came back in post 3524 agreeing with louiswei that it was all done.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    Cadillac has positioned the CTS as an entry level sports sedan. I do not think that they can turn around in a year or two, and make it a luxury sports sedan. In the event that they dump the STS, then an upgraded CTS might move somewhat up market. To do that I think the interior would need some improvement, a bit more wood trim, less bright metal. However, more of the STS's equipment would need to be available, like the adaptive cruise control and a V8 engine.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,505
    “However, more of the STS's equipment would need to be available, like the adaptive cruise control and a V8 engine.”

    You raise a question that I have been meaning to ask here:

    Has anyone heard if the CTS’s “platform” was engineered to accept a V8?
    Edit:
    A ‘regular’ CTS – it appears a given that there will be a CTS-v – with a V8.

    I happened to drive a BMW 335 sedan a few weeks ago – and had planned to drive a 2008 CTS immediately after. The acceleration ( TQ ) of the 335 convinced me that driving a CTS right then would be ( um ) unfair to the CTS.

    But a V8 with 350 \ 350 ( HP \ TQ ) or more would put the CTS in a different ( acceleration ) class – and might allow legitimate acceleration comparison with a 335 or 535. . .

    Anyone heard?
    Speculation?

    Thanks,
    - Ray
    Finding no answer with a couple of Google searches . . .
  • link title

    What was this sucker, like 50 grand new?

    And for the collectors (No pics)

    link title
  • "But a V8 with 350 \ 350 ( HP \ TQ ) or more would put the CTS in a different ( acceleration ) class – and might allow legitimate acceleration comparison with a 335 or 535. . ."

    Without a stickshift available for this model, they might as well tack on a Landau roof and curb feelers.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,505
    "Without a stickshift available for this model, they might as well tack on a Landau roof and curb feelers. "

    The current CTS-v iteration ( only ) comes with a manual trans.
    So – there certainly seems to be a possibility that we will see another. . .
    - Ray
    Happy for those who prefer a manual to have that choice . . .
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    The body is now as wide as the S series (STS, SRX) which do have the V8. The direct injection 3.6 performance is comparable to the 335. Automobile's comparison test shows the 335 quicker to 60 and through the 1/4 mile. I think that a V8 will not become available in the basic CTS while the STS is still in production. The CTS_V will get a V8, but what V8 is not clear. I would think the supercharged northstar would fit.
  • Can't access it since I'm not a member but there is a locked thread on C&G on this. I stumbled on that this morning.

    2009 CTS-V slated for late Sept '08 arrival; no Tremac trans
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