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Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?

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  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,722
    Who needs cupholders? I've had 4 MB and never used a cupholder once :P "Intelligible" is opinion...funny how the non-specific switches etc mentioned are fine for the rest of the world, but always an issue in the US. Maybe the car isn't the problem... And 'sad looking'? There's nothing more sad than the pretentiousness of a bordello interior in a car that some will claim is competitive.

    The MB W126 is seen as one of the most significant cars of the past several decades. It was light years ahead of anything in production when it was introduced. In 1980, it was the future, there were no sedans that came close. I wonder how many people defected from Caddy and Lincoln to it - as it was a smash hit and sold over a million units in its long run many must have, and it was used as the basis for the first Lexus LS - a decade after introduction. That's proves enough for me.

    The vaunted high performance XLR-V is barely faster than a plain old SL550, the MB will have better resale, better materials, and as is important for many of its buyers - better image. It has aged very well, seeing as it is now 5 years old. Distinctive looks are not really something one can quantify...nor are they always positive. I wonder what someone with auto design background thinks of XLR vs SL. You won't see me defend the Lexus SC, it's a pretentious cushy boulevardier for trophy wives and retired dentists.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Does that include the naysayers who had such bad experiences with GM products that they had plenty of time to hear themselves talk whilst waiting for the Caddy to be repaired. Again. And again...

    Well you are defending the Hyundai Genesis, and while I agree it's a nice looking car and will do great BUT Hyundai, doesn't have a established track record yet for reliability either. Cadillac, has at least been pretty darn good for more than a decade now and currently ranks among the top. ;)

    -Rocky
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    You won't see me defend the Lexus SC, it's a pretentious cushy boulevardier for trophy wives and retired dentists.

    I am not going to defend the SC either, I think it's the sorriest product in the Lexus lineup. However, there are still trophy wives and retired dentists buying those but who is buying the XLR now a day?
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Apparently rockylee's cousin has arrived...

    ROTFFLMAO !!!!! :D :D :D :D :D

    Not hardly, but I admit he is very likable :blush:

    -Rocky
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,722
    Nobody is, of course. I see more Bentleys in my area than XLRs. It's only a halfway relevant product, especially with the improved engines in the 2007+ SL. I suspect they have fleet-model DTS resale value, too.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Lets recap reality for a minute- cadillac outsold Lexus, BMW and MB until about 2002 or 2003.

    Lexus has been American's No. 1-selling luxury brand since 2001.

    Source: Lexus Earns Best-Selling Luxury Brand Title For Sixth
    Consecutive Year
  • mrsyjmrsyj Posts: 77
    "Lexus has been American's No. 1-selling luxury brand since 2001. "

    could not rememeber exact year. MY point is the same, Cadillac managed to outsell BMW, MB and Lexus for decades and yet people are hear saying they made nothing but undesirable, unreliable, pathetic vehicles until the 2008 CTS came out. Cadillac's record of success in the US is far more impressive than Lexus' 6 straight years. When Lexus gets to 30 or 40 straight years I will be impressed. At the rate BMW is going with Mini and the new 1 series they may pass Lexus soon.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,198
    To get back on topic rather than going down the road of an incendiary topic, Cadillac has returned itself to standard of the world and the Escalade is an example of why it is happening. The fact that it aggravates a few so much that they spend time posting about how it's not really true just shows that it is happening. The futile attempt to live in the past when designs and cars from Cadillac division were more run-of-the-mill is not working.

    The topic isn't about how we don't like something from the past 20 years ago. The topic is "Can..." and indeed it is happening with the CTS and other vehicles from Cadillac and other parts of GM. E.g., as for parts falling from a new Malibu, I'd expect to have transmission problems with a Camry or Accord much more than from a Malibu. I'd expect a rough ride in a hard seat or a too soft ride in a minimal seat from a Camry. In both the interior of the models I sat in were "cheap" plastic. Actually it was expensive plastic and just looked cheap. So I'm not sure why Malibu was brought into the discussion. Of course we could say the same about Rockylee's brother being mentioned.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,722
    Standard of North America anyway ;)
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Cadillac's record of success in the US is far more impressive than Lexus' 6 straight years.

    Good god, are you mad?

    US is Cadillac's home court so reasonably Cadillac should be able to OWN this market without breaking a sweat. However, that was not the case as we witnessed and the best yet is that the best selling luxury brand crown was lost to a 10-year-old company with a history of making tin cans back in the 60s and 70s.

    And you are still here acting like that was no big deal... :surprise:

    Time for you GM apologist to WAKE UP!!!
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    one XLR in my life. I had to think about it for a moment to figure out what it was.
  • I agree 100%. Cadillac has returned to greatness and has and always will be "THE STANDARD" that others look up to. Maybe, just maybe wecould consider Mercedes the closest but they still lack features and pale in comparison to Cadillac when it comes to dependibility and reliability.

    "I'd expect to have transmission problems with a Camry or Accord much more than from a Malibu. I'd expect a rough ride in a hard seat or a too soft ride in a minimal seat from a Camry."

    I expect a lot more than that! How's that sludged engine doing on that Camry? How's the snapped camshaft on that Tundra? The snapped frames on those Toyota trucks? The cheap plasticy interiors and flimsy crap Hondas? I don't know why the Malibu should even be mentioned in the same sentence as those other POS cars, it's on its own level. Just like Cadillac does not belong in the same sentence as a lowly BMW or Audi, that is what Buick takes care of at the moment. buick has more clout than Mercedes nowadays, at least GM can build a car that doesn't put its owner in the poor farm!
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    I have only seen it couple times in Melbourne, FL, aka the retirees heaven...
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,722
    I am in the northwest, where by the way in some areas one can't throw a tennis ball without having it bounce off a Slade or a Denali.

    Smoke the plain bare-bones SL550? I think 0-60 times were only about half a second apart...which when one is comparing the tuned model vs the plain model, is not as much as it should be. Shouldn' the tuned model not be competing with the base model? Most people care for interior materials when looking at an interior too...and the edgy for the sake of being edgy line of the XLR is becoming pretty 'dated' itself. The CTS softened a bit, and so will the XLR. Keeping something in production for too long with no revisions doesn't mean it isn't dated.
  • I cannot believe lexus made it into this discussion either. Their still fighting it out with Lincoln and Acura for the basement = the class of wannabe luxury cars but don't quite know how to break out of the "cheap Honda/Toyota with wood" syndrome.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,722
    "buick has more clout than Mercedes nowadays"

    Are you for real?
  • Who else are you going to compare the Germans to, Pontiac? Chevrolet? Saturn (There lineup is very strong and the quality/reliabiltiy certainly exceeds the Germans but the brand is still new and the cars don't command the ridiculous prices the Germans ask)

    Does Mercedes offer heated windshield washer fluid? They certainly lack the style and elegance of a Buick which in this class is a big part of the draw isn't it? Look at a Lucerne and then look at a fat ugly mercedes or a disjointed BMW and tell me which one looks more stylish. Take off the blinders while your at it.

    Buick is the next one to take over Cadillacs place against the Germans. A V16 supercar will cement that notion because there is no V16 in a BMW or Mercerdes is there? No. Just like the Germans cannot come up with an answer to the Escalade and the CTS has made the competition look like econoboxes, but they can (for now) compete with Buick (aside from reliability/durability/quality of course).

    So if GM continues to build up Buick like they have been doing with the excellent Enclave and class leading Lucerne then I bet Buick really could end up ranking right next to those German brands. maybe they don't have more clout now, but I think they will in the future.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    so I can be sure to avoid it. ;)
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,722
    You have to be joking. When all one can muster is heated washer fluid, and makes the Lucerne to be the definition of class and elegance, one cannot take a statement seriously. What percentage of those Lucernes get an old pushrod lump and are usually driven to and from airports?

    I will believe that V16 supercar when I see it, I won't hold my breath. MB has had their twin-turbo V12 for some time now. There's not a lot of point to it when the V8s are so fine to begin with. The same will hold true for Caddy's big engine...which I do not expect to see.

    You mention the terms...please define reliabity, durabilty, and quality as different constructs. Saturn doesn't meet all three, that's for sure.

    German cars still OWN the global luxury market, and this shows no signs of changing. 'Und morgen die ganze Welt' has been realized by MB with its wide product line from subcompacts to buses and semis...I don't see this happening with the American competition.

    Concentrate on building yourself before comparing to others. This is how Caddy should develop, and in many ways, has. Their domestic market future is bright, without silly claims.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Let's hope that GM's Board of Directors doesn't actually smoke the same stuff.

    GM stock is down 40% since October 15, making the "sub prime" mess almost look good by comparison. Over the past 4 years, GM has lost over 50% of it's market value. During the same 4 years, Apple has gone up over 1,700%, and as a company, is now worth 13 times as much as GM. Toyota a little more than that.

    And Cadillac is the standard of the world? For what, embarassment?
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    I don't think GM has a Board of Directors. What it does have is a rubber-stamp assembly that is paid well to sit quietly and watch as GM's North American operations are slowly ground into dust, whil Lutz trots out with a great show of green smoke and fiery eruptions to distract the easily swayed.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    dear me

    I do see an XLR from time to time (perhaps the same one). I have not seen an SL (not even an old one) for some time. The Mercedes dealer is over 300 miles away though....

    Motor Trend (if I recall correctly) had an interesting XLR_V article where they drove one around the European autobahns at speeds up to 170 MPH ( the speed limiting device was disabled).
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    when it comes to "luxury cars" I think Mercedes is on top. The one exception in the Rolls Royce class, where I think Rolls is still "the" car. The Rolls is too easy to identify, and for people who want something "showy", a Rolls is probably the thing.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    when it comes to "luxury cars" I think Mercedes is on top. The one exception in the Rolls Royce class, where I think Rolls is still "the" car. The Rolls is too easy to identify, and for people who want something "showy", a Rolls is probably the thing.

    However most of the very wealthy people I know still drive Cadillac's.

    -Rocky
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    truly rich people who do not want to show off may drive Buicks or perhaps a Camry. Cadillac's were (in the 50's) popular with show biz people or others who wanted to show off wealth. A Hungarian actress is well known for driving a Rolls.

    The sigma platform Cadillacs are decent handling cars that (if the nearest BMW dealer is 300 miles away) are worth buying if you want a sports sedan. A Cadillac is not as showy as a BMW or Mercedes. Lincoln has dropped the LS, so the low end sports sedan is probably at Cadillac.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Well I guess it varies greatly depending on where you live. I do not see nearly as many Mercedes, BMW's and Lexuses I once saw but I am seeing a great increase in Cadillac's. The same demographic was true in Texas, where I lived for 5+ years.

    -Rocky
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    To be unkind about it, perhaps the dumpy state of the Michigan economy means that the people who formerly bought Mercedes, BMW, and Lexus can only afford to buy Cadillac now. :cry:
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    here there are lots of Suburbans (including the Escalade). there are a fair number of Cadillacs, and some Lexus (mostly the Camry Lexus). It has been a very long time since I saw a Rolls. There used to be an old one that would appear now and then.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    To be unkind about it, perhaps the dumpy state of the Michigan economy means that the people who formerly bought Mercedes, BMW, and Lexus can only afford to buy Cadillac now. :cry:

    No, I think some of the people in Michigan, are finely getting wise and understand global economics and know if they don't buy at least some american made stuff they themselves will be out of a job because their will be no one left that will be able to afford to do business with them. ;)

    -Rocky
  • or it could just be that Michiganers don't want unreliable piece of crap cars? If you want a reliable, quality automobile, really the only choice you have is GM. Maybe someday we can say the same about Ford or Chrysler?
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