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Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?

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Comments

  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    Jinkies. Diesel, manual, and a true hardtop; shades of the old rarer-than-rare Passage GT-D.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    Now that I've seen the pictures... P.U.! What an ugly car. It looks like Picasso tried to build a Scion tC. :sick:
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Thanks 62'. Looks really cool pal !!! :shades:

    -Rocky
  • mr215mr215 Posts: 89
    GM is claiming CTS-V will be fastest sedan on the market. Should be interesting once it comes out. One thing is for sure, for $20k less than than the M5 its going to raise some eyebrows.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,162
    Love the CTS-V! Hope girlfriend doesn't see it!
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    Only problem is, because it's $20k LESS, nobody wants to compare it to the M5 or the reg. CTS to the 5 Series. They INSIST on comparing it to the 3 and M3 because of the price, and subsequently, it ends up falling short because it's too heavy, and that's not fair. If BMW is so great, then come out w/ a 5 Series for the same price as a CTS or a G35!!!
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    Road & Track did a comparison of sorts with the 535, but only as a sidebar. They planned to compare the CTS with the 535 but realized that at $20,000 more they were probably not in the same class. The CTS does not offer an acive suspension which R&T's 535 had. The BMW's active suspension adjusts the roll bars which is different than GM's magnetic shock absorbers (probably better and more costly). The 535 had low profile tires, which should have resulted in a harsher ride (they did not) as well as better handling (as they did).

    That said, I have to say that for the money, the CTS is probably a better choice if money is a concern.

    The M5 has be displaced by the AMG Mercedes E63 I think (from what I read).
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    OK, I have googled both "famous dubs" and dubs. "dubs" is slang for 20, so I get that. Apparently there was a song "Famous Dub", but I am not at all sure how that fits into your comments :confuse:

    I try to avoid LA - I have seen much more exotic wheels on GMC's than what I have.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    As a previous poster stated those who buy Cadillacs with the large chrome wheels are not very good people. Also that if the buyers are from Hollywood then the vehicle is again aimed at disreputable people. Your vehicle does have the infamous sized "dubs" and therefore your character is in question. :blush: :D

    An admirable trait - and frankly, one I try to subscribe to. I didn't mean to suggest that every person who buys an Escalades with 22" chrome wheels is an actual or latent pimp or drug dealer. Again, I was being critical of GM/Cadillac's chrome over substance approach to product design, engineering and marketing which has caused them problems in the past among more sophisticated buyers.

    As much as I would all like to try to claim open mindedness, I have to confess as a father, if I opened the door to find my daughter's first date wearing his pants around his knees, his body covered with tatoos and piercings, and the most used word in his vocablulary was "whatever", I would probably punt that openmindedness (and something else), no matter what he was driving. Fortunately, I don't think my daughter would ever present me with that dilemma. But are you suggesting you wouldn't care who came to your front door and what elevation relative to their waist their belt buckle was?
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    As a previous poster stated those who buy Cadillacs with the large chrome wheels are not very good people.

    If GM/Cadillac planning/marketing discovers a high margin customer want or need and offers it, that is simply smart business. Notice that Porsche has had very high margin options that don't add any measure of performance, but there are apparently customers that want these things and have the money to pay.

    Would be interesting if some very high-fashion European non-car designer (clothing?) came up with fancy but tasteful padded tops for BMWs and Porsches as aftermarket. Then, get sports superstars and actors/actresses to buy/drive these and would be on TV and in magazines. This would then be very "in" and fashionable and BMW and Porsche would quickly add these to a high-margin options list. Just imagine, an office manager coming to work and proclaiming to his friends, "I just picked up my Versocki BMW 3 last night". You want to see it at lunch time.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    ROTF@62' :D

    For someone who drives Cadillac's he sure hates them vocally at least !!! :confuse:

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    habitat1, says BMW and Porsche, don't use atletes or celebrity's to help design or influence their cars !!! :P

    -Rocky
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Lets not get confused here. I am in no way putting down SLS. I am sure his caddy looks great with dubs. I know ours did. And he does like Caddy's. My reference was to somebody else.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Well I personally love DUBS !!!! :shades:

    -Rocky
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    It's funny you mention that, as I just glanced at that article today before I posted, but was also speaking of the Car&Driver article that compared those 2 and the 330i(?) as well. I just find it not necessarily a fair judgement when comparing those cars as the CTS is bigger and while from an everyday living that may have it's advantages, it also "suffers" from being "too heavy" compared to the 3 series, yet also "suffers" from not having more advanced equiptment compared to the 5 series even though it is $20k cheaper. What would be interesting is to see how the CTS-V would compare to an M5. While I assume there would be a similar price gap, would the price difference between the V and reg. CTS allow for an active suspension that would close the tech. gap between the V and M5.
  • trimastertrimaster Posts: 163

    since you are a businessman I'm sure you would agree that the success or failure of Cadillac could be judged by the sales of the Escalade. You are critical of how cadillac developed the Escalade but you have not mentioned sales. The Escalade is still best in class from a sales perspective so I'm not sure how you can say that their strategy was flawed. I dont think removing all the chrome from the escalade and putting 16" wheelcovers on it would have worked out, but that's just my opinion. You also keep mentioning the Escalade has "no substance" but you dont specify why you are saying that. As its been noted here, the truck has style, plenty of power and a great set of features. Its not all looks.

    the purpose of the Escalade is to attract younger, wealthy customers and to make Cadillac's styling themes stand out in a world of dull looking luxury SUvs. Misson has been accomplished. Your inference that Cadillac has undesirable customers for this vehicle are a little condescending if you ask me. The people who buy the Escalade are probably mostly under 50 and have six figure incomes. That is the type of demographic cadillac wants these days.


    I think the Escalade is going for a younger buyer and it has the "bling factor." I see nothing wrong with that if the product is profitable for the company. There isn't an SUV out there that goes directly to this segment of the market. All the other luury SUV's Range Rover, ML, X5 aren't as flasy and don't appear to specifically target this group IMO.

    Here's an interesting article on the 07 model:

    http://www.jdpower.com/autos/Cadillac/Escalade/2007

    an excerpt:

    Climbing into the new 2007 Cadillac Escalade, I get the feeling that I am seriously underdressed. No gold chains, no diamond stud in my ear. And my raggy jeans definitely would not pass muster on MTV.

    Ever since the first 'Slade hit the streets, back in 1999, this massive SUV has proven the product of choice among rappers and rock stars. And if the looks we got tooling around San Diego during Caddy's recent preview were any indication, the new '07 model is likely to maintain its image as the king of all bling.
  • mr215mr215 Posts: 89
    years back R&T compared the CTS to other midsize luxury cars, including 5 series, and it came in first place. The 5 series doesnt have an active suspension standard so it is possible to compare similar CTS and 5 series models. Based on price and style I would say the CTS would do pretty well.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,162
    ...my new Cadillac DTS Performance is overtly "blingy." I'd say it has a tastefully moderate amount of chrome. Even the grille is body color versus bright metal on the DTS I, II, and III.
  • trimastertrimaster Posts: 163
    Only problem is, because it's $20k LESS, nobody wants to compare it to the M5 or the reg. CTS to the 5 Series. They INSIST on comparing it to the 3 and M3 because of the price, and subsequently, it ends up falling short because it's too heavy, and that's not fair. If BMW is so great, then come out w/ a 5 Series for the same price as a CTS or a G35!!!

    Personally, I think pricing the car lower is a great idea. If the car is priced 20k higher sales would suffer. I don't think they are ready to charge a premium for the car. Anyway, it worked for Lexus so why can't it work for Cadillac. Not to mention everyone can't afford a 5 series. if the CTS is priced lower, they will be able to sell more units, and at the end of the day that's the goal.
  • mr215mr215 Posts: 89
    I find those comments from JDP to be silly and a little offensive. I shouldnt be surprised since many auto critics seem compelled to make attempts at "ghetto humor" when reviewing the Escalade or any similar vehicle. Its interesting that loud compacts with huge spoilers like the EVO and STI are loved by the automotive press but the Escalade is considered some kind of joke since it supposedly only appeals to young, flashy, "urban" types who wear big jewelry and make money by rapping or playing sports.
  • mr215mr215 Posts: 89
    "Yes, Rocky, you got my message right. I am willing to bet if I go over to Stuttgart tomorrow, I will not find anyone on Porsche's engineering or marketing team on the phone to hollywood for ideas. Thank goodness. "

    1. Cadillac doesnt use celebrities to advertise the Escalade
    2. We have no idea how little or how much advice was taken from celebrities in the design of the Escalde
    3. Based on the vehicle's sales a reasonable person would have to say Cadillac made the right decisions
    4. Porsches sell based on reputation and performance, not syling or luxury features. For a vehicle like the Escalde styling is very important and thus those who influence trends and style should be consulted. Porshe recycles the same styling over and over again and thus trends are of no concern.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    I should add that one gets more than just 20 inch wheels on the SRX. They are part of a package that includes a body colored grill with wire mesh, a limited slip axle with the AWD and lower profile tires that should upgrade handling. While the wheels are nice looking, there are some additional features that add more than looks. The grill is somewhat more "open" looking so that I think cooling might be better, and the wire mesh seems to catch some of the bugs.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    1. Cadillac doesnt use celebrities to advertise the Escalade
    2. We have no idea how little or how much advice was taken from celebrities in the design of the Escalde


    I seem to recall Tiki Barber or someone riding around in an Escalade commercial last year, and there are stories about Cadillac soliciting "celebrity input" when the current Escalade was designed.
  • An admirable trait - and frankly, one I try to subscribe to. I didn't mean to suggest that every person who buys an Escalades with 22" chrome wheels is an actual or latent pimp or drug dealer

    don't try to back out now you said what you said....
  • trimastertrimaster Posts: 163

    I find those comments from JDP to be silly and a little offensive. I shouldnt be surprised since many auto critics seem compelled to make attempts at "ghetto humor" when reviewing the Escalade or any similar vehicle. Its interesting that loud compacts with huge spoilers like the EVO and STI are loved by the automotive press but the Escalade is considered some kind of joke since it supposedly only appeals to young, flashy, "urban" types who wear big jewelry and make money by rapping or playing sports.


    But it's not just JDP who says it. People right here on this board have said it. All vehicles (and the people who drive them) have some sort of identity.

    For example: What types of vehicles come to mind when you think of a soccer mom? A 65 year old business executive making 6 figures? The cocky 20 something who just got a HUGE raise at the law firm? A NBA star who just sighned a 10 million dollar contract extension?

    What the soccer mom drives (or we think she may drive) might be different from the teenager who likes to modify Japanese imports...

    It appears as thought that's the Escalade's image and based on reports of the chrome being a highlight in their paphlet maybe they are embracing that image?

    But at the same time, if the vehicle is popular and selling well isn't that the main goal? I haven't heard any reports from Caddy being offended by the "bling" comments. I wonder how they feel about it.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    I haven't heard any reports from Caddy being offended by the "bling" comments. I wonder how they feel about it.

    They love it. Cadillac is about show and performance. Always has. Look at the 59 Caddy with the chrome and wings. Lutz specifically calls out the 5 layers if chrome on the new Slade.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,161
    a lady driving a new, new CTS on the driveway at the local school campus to pick up a kid after school. Beautiful car.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,161
    a lady driving a new, new CTS on the driveway at the local school campus to pick up a kid after school. Beautiful car.

    Also so Jean Jamison (right name?) of Automotive magazine being interviewed on TV and she was praising the CTS as the great car of the year at the NAIAS. I believe the clip was called Total Access and don't remember where I saw it last night...
  • trimastertrimaster Posts: 163

    They love it. Cadillac is about show and performance. Always has. Look at the 59 Caddy with the chrome and wings. Lutz specifically calls out the 5 layers if chrome on the new Slade.


    I didn't know that. Thanks for the info. So why are some people upset about the image when Caddy themselves are promoting it?? I don't get it. Caddy has found a market who likes a certain style of SUV and IMO no one else is trying to reach that market. I think that's pretty clever on their part.

    They are selling trucks. Isn't that the bottom line?
  • mr215mr215 Posts: 89
    "I didn't know that. Thanks for the info. So why are some people upset about the image when Caddy themselves are promoting it?? I don't get it. Caddy has found a market who likes a certain style of SUV and IMO no one else is trying to reach that market. I think that's pretty clever on their part.

    They are selling trucks. Isn't that the bottom line"

    Let me clarify what I am saying. I don't doubt that Cadillac likes chrome and brightwork on their vehicles. I don't doubt that Cadillac would rather have under 50 people buying their SUV as opposed to over 60 people. What I am saying is that writers and people on this board keep pretending that the Escalade was designed by and ONLY appeals to athletes and rappers. That is BS plain and simple. Just because some people here look down on the vehicle and worship German vehicles they think it's OK to deride the Escalade and the type of people who like the vehicle. That is what I have a problem with. There are only a few hundred professional athletes out there and a few dozen rappers. Who is buying the rest of these Escalades?
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