Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?

1141142144146147201

Comments

  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Well the CTS coupe won the styling award for the most beautiful concept at the NAIAS which was judged by designers from all the car companies. Great job Cadillac for such a gorgeous vehicle. CTS-V got the best looking production car.

    Two versions of the popular CTS swept the car awards in the annual EyesOn Design contest, judged by more than 20 designers from BMW, Honda, Harley-Davidson, Toyota Motor Corp., General Motors and Chrysler LLC.
    The judges named the 2009 CTS-V – a 550-horsepower sedan that goes on sale later this year – as the best designed production car, and the CTS Coupe was named best-designed concept car.

    BMW beat out the new Dodge Ram and Ford F-150 pickups as best designed production truck, for the BMW X6, which looks more like a crossover than a truck.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    But when you go, stop and look at The Detroit News' 2008 Best in Show: the Cadillac CTS coupe concept.

    In fact, it's so good, Cadillac should move it from concept to reality. Bid it, tool it, build it; this coupe's a winner.

    Chisled in steel, the Cadillac CTS coupe concept exaggerates the look of the redesigned CTS sedan. It adopts the 2+2 look with a low-lying roof and small greenhouse. The tapered roof cuts back to a rear end with a strong centerline crease.

    It looks fast, and using Cadillac's 3.6-liter direct injection V-6, it will be fast. And when you're at the auto show, this car looks even better the second time.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    The V-8 engine, long a symbol of power for American car companies, is sputtering.

    At the Detroit auto show this week, Detroit's Big Three are promoting smaller engines and alternative-fuel vehicles, eliminating the V-8 from many models and relegating it to niche status.

    Ford Motor, which first popularized the V-8 in the 1930s, will start using a turbocharged 6-cylinder in many vehicles, including the next generation of its Explorer sport utility vehicle. The company has named its new engine technology EcoBoost, a nod to consumers' concern for the environment.

    ''It's pretty clear that the V-8 is on its way out of the mainstream,'' said Ford's chairman, William Clay Ford Jr.

    General Motors recently canceled a $300 million program to develop a new V-8, citing new fuel-economy standards that require a 40 percent improvement in overall gas mileage by 2020. ''That cancellation was a direct result of the 35-mile-per-gallon legislation,'' Robert A. Lutz, GM's vice chairman, said Tuesday.

    Even the famed Hemi V-8 from Chrysler will be quieted at stoplights when it is paired this year with hybrid technology in some big SUV's.

    Car companies, in a sense, are catching up with shifting consumer tastes: sales of V-8 engines in the United States have dropped 24 percent since 2004, according to the auto research firm R. L. Polk & Company.

    The V-8 will still be a staple in pickups and large SUV's, and Detroit continues to flex its muscle-car muscle with some other models. General Motors, for example, unveiled this week a limited-edition 620-horsepower Corvette ZR1 – the fastest and most powerful Chevrolet ever – and a high-performance Cadillac, the CTS-V, offering 550 horsepower.

    Ford executives said they had at times wrestled with the decision to give up V-8s in some models, including a new sedan from the Lincoln luxury division, because they worried about customer reaction.

    ''I worked on the Lincoln Continental program 20 years ago, and people were vehement that it had to have a V-8,'' said Mark Fields, Ford's president for the Americas. ''But now people don't really care if the performance is there.''

    Some Asian automakers, notably Honda of Japan, have stayed out of the V-8 market entirely. Toyota offers V-8s in its full-size pickups and SUV's, but it has dominated the midsize car market with less powerful engines.

    ''The era of indulgence is over,'' said John A. Casesa, managing partner at the Casesa Shapiro Group, an investment firm in New York. ''When oil goes to $100 a barrel, the romance of a V-8 under the hood diminishes pretty quickly.''

    Chrysler is bucking the trend somewhat. The company is updating its Hemi engine and achieving better fuel economy by marrying the current edition to a hybrid system in its full-size Dodge Durango and Chrysler Aspen SUV's.

    But the automaker, which was bought last year by the private equity firm Cerberus Capital Management, is developing a new line of V-6 engines that would be an alternative to the V-8s in popular models like the Jeep Grand Cherokee SUV.

    ''There's a new group of young customers that may not appreciate or care what the Hemi does,'' said the Chrysler vice chairman, James E. Press.
  • trimastertrimaster Posts: 163
    Let me clarify what I am saying. I don't doubt that Cadillac likes chrome and brightwork on their vehicles. I don't doubt that Cadillac would rather have under 50 people buying their SUV as opposed to over 60 people. What I am saying is that writers and people on this board keep pretending that the Escalade was designed by and ONLY appeals to athletes and rappers. That is BS plain and simple. Just because some people here look down on the vehicle and worship German vehicles they think it's OK to deride the Escalade and the type of people who like the vehicle. That is what I have a problem with. There are only a few hundred professional athletes out there and a few dozen rappers. Who is buying the rest of these Escalades?

    I agree 100%. Here in my area the people who drive the CTS look VERY similar to the people who drive the Escalade: Middle aged men and women.

    Every now and then I'll see a person who fits the rapper and athlete stereotype, but the vast majority of the time they do not. I'm sure the region plays a big part on who drives certain vehicles also.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,677
    Around here, the Escalades sell mainly to affluent boomers, maybe a younger trophy wife thrown in here and there. Rarely does one see an under 40 male driving one...at least a current model, and maybe a handful of older people in them too.

    For the CTS, it is a more even distribution, I see people in their 30s, and some in their 60s or maybe even more.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    62' The General Rules The World !!!! :shades:

    -Rocky
  • "There are only a few hundred professional athletes out there and a few dozen rappers. Who is buying the rest of these Escalades?"

    Apparently my step-sister and her husband. They just took delivery of their new 8 passenger Escalade ESV. Seems she gave birth to quadruplets three months ago and combined with their three year old son, they have a lot of kids to haul around (no fertility drugs for those of you scoring at home!). Although they are an African-american family, her husband supports his ESV payments through a more pedestrian life vocation than a blinged out rapper....he's the junior partner in his father's OB/GYN practice. :)
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Holy Cow !!! :surprise: 4 kids at once !!!! Was the doctor in the shot-gun stance going hut, hut, hut, hut !!! :P

    The ESV, will work great !!!! :shades:

    -Rocky
  • I haven't heard any reports from Caddy being offended by the "bling" comments. I wonder how they feel about it.

    go to GM's corporate site watch the unveiling of the Escalade Jack Miller I believe who is GM's general manager says and I quote "There is added bling to the new Escalade." Besides there is nothing to be offended about, if you read expert reviews on similar full sized SUV's they say that consumers tend to by Escalade for the commanding pressence set off by the plethora of chrome.
  • mr215mr215 Posts: 89
    "Although they are an African-american family, her husband supports his ESV payments through a more pedestrian life vocation than a blinged out rapper....he's the junior partner in his father's OB/GYN practice"

    cant be! No record deal? No diamond chains? What normal person with a job would buy an Escalde instead of a Q7?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Tony expounds wonderment on the beauty of the CTS, expecially the rear end and sail panels. Talks about the CTS Coupe, which will be built, convertible, stations wagon and diesel.

    Jeanne Jennings (Automobile) talks about her love of the BMW 1 series($36K base!!). Then discusses how great the GM vehicles are including the CTS coupe and CTS-V and SR1.

    Jim Hall (ex-AutoPacifica) says the the CTS coupe is astonishing. Says it was the most succesful car, from a styling point, of any car at NAIAS.

    Even Wolfgang Puck was there and he loved the Escalade. I guess that answers this question: "There are only a few hundred professional athletes out there and a few dozen rappers. Who is buying the rest of these Escalades?"

    Jason Vines (ex Chrysler) says CTS Coupe was stunning and GM won the NAIAS show. Wagoner doing great and the best press conference ever.

    http://www.autolinedetroit.tv/ The New Frontier
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    Lindamood really liked the forerunner of the BMW 3-series, which was a model 2002 (a strange number for BMW series names). Anyway my understanding is that the new 1-series is about the size of the 2002 model and is therefore a return to a more nimble sized BMW. The 3-series has grown over the last 20 years by a significant amount.

    What this means is that the CTS is a much bigger car than the entry level BMW used to be, and perhaps should be. I do hope that Cadillac is not planning to bump the CTS price range up by $15 to 25,000 over the next 5 years. I recall what GM did to the G-body pricing (the Buick Park Avenue in particular, but the DeVille too).
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    Anyway my understanding is that the new 1-series is about the size of the 2002 model

    If that were true, I'd be willing to put up with the aggravation of owning a German car. The 2002 was about the same size and weight as a Yaris, while the 1er is half a foot longer and half a ton heavier.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    love of the BMW 1 series($36K base!!).

    I need to correct myself. In looking at the BMW website the 3L turbo 1 series is $35k. The 3L nonturbo is $29K. I must have missed the words turbo from Jeanne.

    Anyway in ~two years my pricing guess( in todays dollars) with comparable equipped:

    BLS 3L 263hp (1 -3 series size) $27K vs. 1 series 3L 230hp $29k
    BLS 3L 300hp $32K vs. 1 series 3L 300hp $35K

    CTS 3L 263hp (3-5 series size) $35K base vs. 3 series 3L 230 hp $34K
    CTS 3L 300hp $36K vs. 3 series 3L 300hp $39K
    CTS-V 550hp $49k VS. M3??? series 330hp $65K

    STS 3L 300hp $44K vs. 5 series 3L 300hp $52K
    STS-V 3L 550hp $80K vs. M5 series 360 500hp $83K
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    BLS 3L 263hp (1 -3 series size) $27K vs. 1 series 3L 230hp $29k
    BLS 3L 300hp $32K vs. 1 series 3L 300hp $35K


    Do you think GM would really stick that big old 3.6L V6 into a car that needs to sell well in Europe and other displacement-sensitive markets to cover its development costs? A 240 hp turbo 2.0 and 330 hp turbo 2.8 would be wiser choices, plus the 1.9 turbodiesel from the Vectra.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    The 1-series is basically the 3 series body structure with a shorter wheelbase. Like the CTS, a stiff body requires a bit of mass.
  • mr215mr215 Posts: 89
    GM sells the same car with different engines for different markets. The Vue, Astra, Aura/Vectra and 9-3 are examples. In Europe GM will offer plenty of small engines for the BLS to meet market demands. They are using Saabs 2.8L turbo in the current car which is based on the 9-3.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    I am talking about the future BLS replacement based on the RWD Alpha platform.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    BLS 3L 263hp (1 -3 series size) $27K vs. 1 series 3L 230hp $29k
    BLS 3L 300hp $32K vs. 1 series 3L 300hp $35K

    Do you think GM would really stick that big old 3.6L V6 into a car that needs to sell well in Europe and other displacement-sensitive markets to cover its development costs? A 240 hp turbo 2.0 and 330 hp turbo 2.8 would be wiser choices, plus the 1.9 turbodiesel from the Vectra.


    I was talking NA sales only and direct models to the BMW US competition. Base engine in the 1 series is the 6 cylinder 230 hp with the 6 cylinder turbo 300 hp version as an option in the US. I believe Cadillac will put the same engines in the Alpha as the CTS to compete with BMW. With the new CAFE rules it could also come with the smaller powertrains here. However if they fit the 2.8 turbo in it the 3.6 would drop in. hint: Alpha is being developed in Austrailia and the 3.6 engine is also built there now as are a number of other versions of it. Also the current version of the 2.8 Turbo only develops 255 hp and GM needs 300 to compete with BMW.

    As far as other engine choices GM will need to have both a 4 and 6 diesel versions for the world and US. And most likely that would mean a gas 4 cylinder also. Really doubt GM would put all those engines in but I see at least 4 engines available in it sowewhere in the world.

    That is a lot of powertrains but GM would have them also available in the CTS and STS. The 1 series has at least 5 different engines available with the actual selection determined by country of sale.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    After all the discussion here on whether the CTS is competition for the 3 or the 5 series I believe we have said that the CTS is the exterior size of the 5, interior size somewhere inbetween, and price of a 3 series, right? Thiswhole discussion started with my asking if the new CTS could be competition with the 5 series because it was that size. Since there was no true road test between them we could not get an unbiased (is that possible) comparison.

    C&D cover story is that the CTS-V is an M5 beater. Unfortunately there is little meat in the article. Just discusses the CTS-V content and possible performance. They had no car to drive yet.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,513
    In the R&T December 2007 issue, the editors decided that the 535i was not truly a CTS competitor – largely due to the price difference.

    The acceleration numbers ( same day, driver & venue, apparently ) show that the 535i is a lot quicker.
    0 – 60 = 5.1 vs 6.0 for the CTS w/DI.
    Quarter Mile = 13.7 @ 102.6 vs 14.5 @ 98.2 for the CTS.
    They also mention 0.91G lateral grip vs the CTS 0.86 ( each w/Sport Perf. Pkg. )

    Those acceleration numbers are different enough that I’d expect those who care about such things ( that would include me ) could easily tell which is quicker.

    And the lateral grip numbers + many other comments about the 535i’s handling + ride suggest that the BMW provides some additional value in these departments – for the significant additional cost.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    One would expect to get something for the extra cost of the 535. I think R&T confirmed that you do get something.

    I think that the CTS is an excellent vehicle for the money. It really is not either a 3-series or a 5-series vehicle, it is something in between. It is a Cadillac sports sedan in the $35 to 50,000 price range.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    As I have said before, the real competition is the AMG Mercedes 63 models. I think with 550 hp the CTS_V will be competitive in acceleration.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    Had the oil changed on the SRX yesterday, and tires rotated. Did not see a CTS in showroom, and since it was below zero wind chill outside I did not go looking for the one that was in stock.

    They said that both the tires and brake pads had "light wear" :confuse:
    With nearly 12,000 miles there is 10mm of brake lining left and 8/32 tread left on tires...
  • I have read the reviews on the CTS for 2008 and they are fantasic. I am presently driving and Infiniti M45 sport. The car drives great, but evertime I have to take the car in for repairs it takes at least three weeks. I took my car in for service in early November 2007, because the GPS and radio would not come on. It took Infiniti 11 weeks for the part to arrive. There were no parts in North America. I do not believe that if I purchased a Cadillac that I would have to wait almost three months to obtain a part. I understand that there can be repair problems with a car, but I cannot a company like Infiniti not having any inventory. I am nervous to take my car on a long highway trip, because if it breaks down I may not be able to obtain the part. I believe Cadillac is trying to step up to the plate and take on the German and Japanese manufacturers. I really hope they do it.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    Generally speaking, most parts are probably available for Cadillac's. However, some parts may not be, I waited for an accessory (splash guards) that was part of the original build order (but a dealer installed option) from the delivery date (early May 2007) until September 2007. This did not prevent the car from being used though.
  • I bet it matters which Infiniti dealer you are working with. Some of the larger dealers maybe keep a large stock of parts.
    I have read some forum posts that 2008 CTS owners had to wait to get parts. But its still a new vehicle. I would expect that as we get into the 2nd and 3rd model years, that it will be easy to get parts for the CTS after they have built up inventory.
    A also am considering the CTS, but I am waiting for the 2009 model. I am waiting for any improvements, bluetooth, improved opaque sunroof shade, etc.
    If I bought today, I am really liking the Black Raven exterior with Ebony interior and 18 inch wheels and the DI engine. I saw this exact combination this week in a parking lot. It really looked impressive. I also like the titanium interior to break up the totally black car. But I am flip flopping on the color. Can't decide.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    There should be a parts depot somewhere in the US for Infiniti parts so that getting a part should be a matter of 2-3 days, not weeks.
  • I hear you, that can be daunting to have such a reputible name plate not to have stock on parts. Escpecially when you are making payments, it can be frustating, good luck with the switch. The only thing though that I have heard about Cadillac service is that they do not have loaner cars available while they are fixing yours, I guess GM doesn't want to pay for that. But nontheless good luck.
  • A also am considering the CTS, but I am waiting for the 2009 model.
    Research the vehicle, there are 2 recalls that I know of, the rear end was locking up and there is something wrong with the power windows and sunroof.
Sign In or Register to comment.