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Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?

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Comments

  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,162
    I haven't forgot! I still remember those wonderful Cadillacs of my youth from the 1960s through the 1980s. Funny, I just realized I owned a Cadillac from almost each decade up to the present. My high school/college girlfriend had a 1969 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham, I've had a 1975 Cadillac Sedan DeVille, 1989 Cadillac Brougham, 1994 Cadillac DeVille, a 2002 Cadillac Seville STS, and currently a 2007 Cadillac DTS Performance.

    I've actually owned Cadillacs and I have very low tolerance for defects. A burned-out bulb drives me bananas, so why would I want to tolerate even more serious problems year after year? At least I can speak from experience. Everything else is just rumor and speculation.
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,673
    I gotta tell ya...we run into each other on other "highly charged" topics, so you know where my opinions lie...but, listening to you has made me add a DTS to the cars I am looking at the replace the Crown Vic...if I buy one, it is because of YOU...

    So, if I get a lemon, I am sending the repair bill to you... :P ;) :cry:
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,629
    Read a little closer, my friend. What was actually posted was, "...badge engineering to today.'' A rough timeline, TO today. Not of today.

    Not badge-engineering today, just platform sharing. And most mfgs do it so no harm there. Just start with good platforms.

    "Cadillac is the standard to me! " And that was my original point. You are correct for you, no argument. The only car that is a standard to me is the one I buy. Right now, Acura TL is The Standard.

    You've had wonderful GM cars, fabulous. I've owned/driven GM/Ford/Chrysler/Nissan/Acura/Saab/Lexus/Mitsubishi. My experience? The Japanese cars have been better built and more reliable. Not to say the domestics have been unreliable, just not as reliable as the Japanese. Loved my Chrysler 300M. But, the TL is screwed together significantly better and has been more trouble free. Just a fact.

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    You might want to look at the long term JD Power for 2005 results
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,673
    If I understood what I think you were pointing out, it is that Buick and Caddy were Numbers 4 and 5 on the list...is that what you meant, or did I miss your point???...
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    Cadillac is a standard for you if you have had no issues. Sounds pretty good to me. Enjoy!

    But for me, not so standard.

    Regards,
    OW
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    Also that the Crown Vic was second to Buick LeSabre in full size for long term quality. Ford's overall standing is above the industry average and matches Chevy. Buick and Cadillac are near the top, and have been for some time. The important thing overall is that the worst vehicles have about twice the number of problems as the best (compare Toyota with Land Rover for example).

    This is a more recent long term study done in 2007 (most recent) for 2004 model year cars (my previous post was released in 2005 for 2002 models). Note that the industry average has improved from 237 to 216. Ford now has more than the average (221) but is better than before (231). Buick now matchs Lexus.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    This is a more recent long term study done in 2007 (most recent) for 2004 model year cars (my previous post was released in 2005 for 2002 models). Note that the industry average has improved from 237 to 216. Ford now has more than the average (221) but is better than before (231). Buick now matchs Lexus.

    Who are you going to believe? Data based on a huge pool of data or some guy on the internet that has owned less than 20 cars? I go with the guy on the internet every time :P I mean he did confirm his results by talking to other people.

    In reality if you look at the data there sure is not much difference between them anymore.

    So lets find some other way of bashing american cars. Hey lets use gas mileage!
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    No, let's use market share. :lemon:

    Regards,
    OW
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    let's use market share

    OK I guess that makes sense. :P

    Overall GM cars are well up in June over last year. They are selling very well, especially the smaller ones that are in vogue now. (in fact the reason many cars did not increase volume was due to lack of inventory because they wer sold out in previous months) What is killing GM is the drop in truck sales, as is it for all companies offering trucks (even Toyota as much as GM). Should GM have not engineered and sold all those trucks in the past? No, in fact most every major make was ramping up truck capacity.

    Cts up 16% over last year.
    STS up 12%
    Cobalt up 22%
    Malibu up 74%
    G6 up 34%
    Vibe up 25%
    Aura up 25%
    Sky up 44%
    SRX up 12%
    Equinox up 46%
    HHr up 24%
    Vue up 25%
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    Here is the big picture forecast for July:

    Even the venerable Toyota is likely to see another drop. Meantime, the combined market share of Detroit's three automakers is expected to hit a near-record low of 44.4 percent, down from 49.4 percent in July 2007 and from 46.4 percent in June 2008. The only time it was lower was in May when it fell to 44.3 percent.

    Edmunds.com predicts GM will sell 266,000 units in July 2008, down 15.7 percent compared to July 2007 and up 1.3 percent from June 2008. GM's market share is expected to be 21.1 percent of new vehicle sales in July 2008, down from 24.2 percent in July 2007 and down from 22.2 percent in June 2008.

    Edmunds.com predicts Honda will sell 160,000 units in July 2008, up 13.3 percent from July 2007 and up 12.1 percent from June 2008. Honda's market share is expected to be 12.7 percent in July 2008, up from 10.8 percent in July 2007 and up from 12.0 percent in June 2008.

    Edmunds.com predicts Nissan will sell 88,000 units in July 2008, up 0.2 percent from July 2007 and up 16.0 percent from June 2008. Nissan's market share is expected to be 7.0 percent in July 2008, up from 6.7 percent in July 2007 and up from 6.4 percent in June 2008.

    Edmunds.com predicts Toyota will sell 217,000 units in July 2008, down 3.3 percent from July 2007 and up 12.1 percent from June 2008. Toyota's market share is expected to be 17.2 percent in July 2008, even from 17.2 percent in July 2007 and up from 16.3 percent in June 2008.


    Regards,
    OW
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    a last-minute surge from people wanting in before leasing goes bye-bye?
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,673
    Forgive my ignorance, why is leasing going bye-bye???
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,629
    Chrysler Financial is saying adios to leasing, GM too?

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    Short answer: they don't have the money for it anymore.

    Long answer: when a vehicle comes back off-lease, the finance company sells it at auction, hoping that it gets as much or more than the residual value of the lease (the lease payments being the difference between the sale price and the residual, plus a little bit extra). The domestic finance companies have a lot of truck and SUV lease returns that are selling at $10, 20, or $30,000 less than the residual value (when they sell at all), so they simply don't have the cash to roll over into new leases and no one else is going to loan them that money. So, now they have either quit leasing altogether or set the residuals to current pitiful market value, making the lease payments so much higher that no one would want to lease.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    ...couple unaffordable leases with higher prices for trucks and premium cars, tight credit, decreasing home values and you get lower sales across the board.

    Regards,
    OW
  • bvdj84bvdj84 Posts: 1,721
    If GM can make the Cadillac the standard of quality of what defines their company, and put more of this work into all of their models, then they would see a better outcome, perhaps downsizing their line up of duplicate cars that have different names on them, but they are they same car, Outlook, Acadia? The same. The problem is they have too many cars, downsizing its line up, would allot for more time and effort to put more quality into their cars.

    The problem is, they keep rebadging their cars. They have too many cars, I feel thats why they slack on overall quality.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    GM, unlike Chrysler who is stopping all leases, will not offer incentivised leases in Canada. I think for GM-Canada that means if there is a rebate on a vehicle you get the rebate with a lease instead of a lower lease offer. Sounds like the same thing in the end? Anyway GM is still offering leases.

    GMAC Financial Services said Tuesday that it will no longer offer leasing-related incentives in Canada, citing market conditions in the country and recent steep drops in used vehicle residual values.
    GMAC spokeswoman Gina Proia said GMAC will suspend Canadian incentivised lease offers effective Aug. 1, but will continue offer standard rate leases in the country.

    The news, which was conveyed to dealers on Monday, follows Chrysler LLC's announcement that its financial arm will get out of the U.S. automotive leasing business by the end of the month. The Auburn Hills, Mich.-based automaker also cited the decline in used truck and sport utility vehicle values.

    Wholesale prices of used pickup trucks dropped 11.2 percent during the second quarter, while wholesale SUV prices fell 9.6 percent, according to National Automobile Dealers Association AuctionNet data released by the NADA's Used Car Guide.

    Both Chrysler Financial and GMAC are owned by Cerberus Capital Management LP. The private equity firm owns 80.1 percent of Chrysler and a 51 percent stake in GMAC.

    They aren't the only automakers hurt by increases in leasing costs. Ford Motor Co. said last week that its credit arm took a $2.1 billion charge during the second quarter because of the drop in the residual values of leased trucks and SUVs.

    Proia said that as of Tuesday, no similar announcement had been made concerning U.S. GMAC leases.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,629
    Again, stopped at Caddy dealer on the way home as they have an '05 XLR w/20k miles. Asking $35k... So, I'm looking at the car, top is down (so at least I know the top goes down! Does it go up?).

    Salesman approaches and I do believe it is the same one who "snubbed" me last Friday. Asks what I think of the car. I give him the general, "mid-life crisis, just looking, rather have an '06 with dark wood in the interior" speech. He smiles, mentions the black '06 (that appeared to have the top trouble last week), but I shan't own a black car. He congenially said I'm welcome back anytime to shop, window or otherwise. Nice.

    I mention, as we're parting, that the left front quarter panel is separating from the frame. He looks stunned, said no, he actually sold this car three years ago and it has been meticulously maintained by this dealer... He walks around to the driver's side and looks down. Looks up at me and smiles, "Thanks for alerting me to this." De nada, amigo.

    Ok, two XLRs within a week. One with a recalcitrant top, the second has the body separating from the frame (looked to me like the glue holding it on had simply dried up). Again, are the Car Gods trying to tell me something? Isn't GM quality Job 1? Or is GM quality an oxymoron... :P

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Posts: 1,491
    for the price. Both Ferrari and Lambo cost about twice as much as an equivalent Porsche.

    Its good to find someone finally agreeing to my idea that Cadillac should be compared to something in its class (bmw, lexus etc) rather than Rolls and Maybach...

    The debate's really heating up rapidly its fun to watch, keep at it guys (and ladies) :D
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    The Car Gods know....walk away fast!

    Thanks for alerting me to this, by the way!

    Regards,
    OW
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,629
    True, especially as Porsches can be daily drivers. Unlike most Ferrari/Lambos.

    To me, the only car Caddy produces that can be compared favorably to MBMWEXUS is the CTS. Sharp car, except for the overly blinged front end... And I'm too old and square to use the term, "blinged..." ;)

    Good to see you here, there and everywhere, OW.

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    Gotta keep 'em honest!

    Regards,
    OW
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,162
    I really like the CTS as well and it shows great promise that Cadillac is going in the right direction. I do like the details on the CTS better than the DTS which I own, however the CTS is a little too small for my tastes and the STS is too expensive. I hope the CTS-like attention to detail crosses over to the DTS. I hear there's supposed to be a replacement for both the DTS/STS in 2010. I guess I'll have to wait until then.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,162
    Sheesh, I hope the next DTS is prettier than the Presidential limo. I think both of W's rides look pretty gruesome. Clinton's 1996 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham was a very attractive Presidential limo. I think Papa Bush had a 1989 Lincoln Town Car. I have a scale model of Ronald Reagan's 1984 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham limo which was rather attractive.

    It's a shame they can't make the President's limo attractive and proportioned despite all that armor. Looks like it could take a few RPG hits. That rear door looks as thick as one on a bank vault
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    Exactly, my Dad's 1984 FWB was far more attractive than Obama's new ride!

    Regards,
    OW
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,162
    My 1989 Brougham is pretty much the same car as your Dad's 1984 Fleetwood Brougham but with a much better engine than the dreadful 4100.

    I recall around that time Cadillac used a V-6. If it was the same V-6 that's in my 1988 Buick Park Avenue, it has more guts than the 4100! It's rated at 165 hp and I think the 4100 only had like 120.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    It's probably the same V-6 that Buick put in the GNX the year before your car.

    The 4100 was slower than my German Shepherd and my minibike at the time!

    But, put the current Northstar V-8 in the 1984 FWB and you would have a real plush and fast living room! I used to love mixing and matching engines in different cars...like the 454 Nova!

    Memories!

    Regards,
    OW
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    I don't recall any V-6 in any Caddy except the Cimmarron. The GNX engine was very conservativly rated at 295 hp.
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