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Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?

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  • THINK before you type people!!people make mistakes as cadillac did!! pastense!
    !!!since 1902!!!!! wake up!!! smell the fertilizer!!!!
    a century of greatness and some are still mad about a cimeron????????
    or a humpback?? i like caddys so what about people who love caddys
    like myself and own plenty!!!i own a lemans racer big bucks$ and it commands
    respect everywhere its shown!! EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!plus iam a millionaire
    and love cadillacs!! i might be the avenging angel for GM!!!pick on yugo or
    dawoo NOT! cadillac....
    GREG BERLIN (cadilist) RENO NV. :)
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,530
    "!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!plus iam a millionaire
    and love cadillacs!! i might be the avenging angel for GM!!!pick on yugo or
    dawoo NOT! cadillac.... "

    Good grief.....
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,185
    I would like to respond to that with all the profanity in all the gangsta rap ever recorded and all of Martin Scorcese's movies, but that would get me banned forever.

    Cadillac was, is, and will always be the Standard of the World in my book!
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,185
    I can come back to you in 157,000+ miles with my 1989 Cadillac Brougham and talk to you - and this is supposedly a Cadillac from the dark ages of the 1980s. The car still looks and runs like a brand new car. If I wasn't happy with my Brougham, I wouldn't have followed up with three more Cadillacs in 1994, 2002, and 2007.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,185
    What competition? At least I can count on the CTS to get me to work. One of those Teutonic tanks would leave one bankrupt and at the side of the road. Well, at least you'll look good waiting for the tow truck next to your 3-Series.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,185
    I'm with you, caddylist! I've been in love with Cadillac ever since I was 3 years-old and saw my neighbor's sleek black 1963 Sedan DeVille. I currently have a 1989 Cadillac Brougham and a 2007 Cadillac DTS Performance - both of which I have purchased new.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,791
    That's a generous way of looking at it, but at least in my opinion, the market does not take the CTS to compete with the 5er or E. It's what GM hopes for, but reality doesn't match it. And upon seeing a loaded CTS (non V) in a showroom stickering a few hundred dollars shy of 50K, it's not always terribly cheaper. It's seen as a relatively equal priced larger competitor to the 3er or C.

    The BLS is probably the rarest new car in Europe.

    The answer isn't to offer something almost as good for a quite bit less, it is to offer something better for a little bit less. When brand cachet has decayed like what happened to Caddy, one is in no position to try to define a new market. It hasn't worked.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,754
    The CTS is supposed to be a 5 series competitor for 10-15K less money. It's not supposed to complete at all with the 3 series, but people mistakenly put them together based upon price and the fact that they don't see a smaller Cadillac.

    That may be true, but Caddy would REALLY be the standard of the world if they could produce a 5-series competitor that would sell successfully *at* 5-series prices. That would be a statement that Caddy was perceived as equal in value to BMW.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,754
    And actually I think you're talking about the BLS in Europe that has the Saab engine. I don't know why they're not selling that stateside. Hello GM? Anyone home?

    I've harped on this for a long time. If GM says it can't be profitable making small cars - well BMW and Audi and VW are making profitable small cars. Why can't GM make a 3-series competitor? Not all Americans are 250lb tubs of lard, some of us like quality small cars. And we have had NO viable vehicles from US nameplates! GM and their lack of strategy should have put out a quality 3-series type car rather than the typical muscle machine Camaro that is likely going to be a flash in the pan.
  • ingvaringvar Posts: 205
    some of us like quality small cars. And we have had NO viable vehicles from US nameplates!
    +1. Why GM can't build something like 335i, G35/37.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,754
    Why GM can't build something like 335i, G35/37.

    Here are the kinds of "driver's cars" that appeal to me (in approximate ascending price":

    Honda Civic
    Mazda 3
    VW Jetta
    Acura TSX (especially previous model)
    G35/37
    A4
    C-series
    3-series

    Where are the US nameplate options for ANY of these? A huge market of high profit vehicles - refined and of quality. NOT Cobalts or G3s. GM and Caddy - here is a big opportunity - why can't you do this?
  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    Of those you list, I'd be most likely to go for a G37X. I think it's lower cost and more powerful, and in my view much nicer styling than a CTS.

    For Cadillac to succeed I think they need the combination of being 10% better than the competition's models at a 5-10% lower price.

    If I were Cadillac I'd also stop scaring customers away with the high MSRP, and then letting the dealers tell about the rebates and the reduced prices. Cadillac should put on their sticker the low, low price to start with. Stop scaring away the customers in the first place!
  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    I can come back to you in 157,000+ miles with my 1989 Cadillac Brougham and talk to you - and this is supposedly a Cadillac from the dark ages of the 1980s.

    And you've also admitted that the Caddies from the 80s can't hold a candle to the Caddies from the 50s & 60s when it comes to style & cachet. You've made it crystal clear that you would swap your '89 for a '69 in a nanosecond.

    There's a good reason why we think of the 80s as a dark age for Cadillac. It was during that time that the premium German brands punched Cadillac's lights out & seized the heart of the luxury market. By the end of that decade, Lexus, which was then preparing to enter the U.S. luxury market, was focused exclusively on the Germans. It didn't even consider Cadillac to be a serious rival. Ouch!

    Twenty years later, Cadillac still hasn't recovered.
  • caddilist we believe your experience is true, but what's the experience for most GM customers? Perhaps because of GM's WILD CARD ways of quality, customers got shafted with too many LEMONS!

    In addition, I have a problem with General Motor's lack of innovation (compare the Toyota Prius with any of GM's hybrids) and inability to compete. Too many of their cars lack refinement as well. Some of them have caught up, but why did it take 35 years ?
  • tlong, you know the sad thing about this, is the Cadillac BLS's interior has always been SPOT ON,because it's basically a cosmetically engineered SAAB. Stateside we had to wait till 2009 to get decent interior in a Cadillac.

    It kind of makes me believe that GM just gave up on competing in the U.S.A. and decided it was good as a test track and that's it, because they had or have continued success in other countries.
  • ingvar the reason GM can't and won't build something like the German and Asian competitor models that you mentioned is due to the following reasons.

    1. GM is not run by car enthusiasts, it's run by financiers, with the exception of the CTS and new Camaro. And you see how nice those cars are.

    2. IT would cost GM more money that what the cars could sell for new, to make cars like what you mentioned. That's why they have Chevrolet Aveos and Cobalts, etc. They bring those cars into the market to try and compete. They don't even make those cars. They're cosmetically engineered cars made in Korea.

    They did try what you mentioned. It was called the Cadillac Catera. It was a cosmetically engineered German Opel. A decent car in Germany, but once GM got their hands on it, they ruined it.

    The CTS turned out to be a success, but it was a huge gamble and cost an unbelievable amount of money to produce and market, and also required GM to release more power to designers, assembly line people and engineers; the big wigs that sit behind their mahogany desks and get chauffeured around, didn't have as much say so for the CTS project.. That's how the CTS got built. It was born from the minds of car enthusiasts instead. That's what we need.

    People that drive the kind of cars that you and I like, are car enthusiasts. Floaty "boats" don't do it for us. Floaty boats used to be a huge market for GM, but the generation changed and they were not ready for it. On top of that, they were unable to change, because their business infrastructure made it near impossible
  • GOOD GRIEF IS CORRECT, IN CAPITAL LETTERS AND FLASHING LIGHTS
    _________________________________________

    caddilist wrote :
    "!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!plus iam a millionaire
    and love cadillacs!! i might be the avenging angel for GM!!!pick on yugo or
    dawoo NOT! cadillac....
  • What competition? That's the biggest laugh of the century.

    And I don't know about you, but I do my homework before I buy a car. I don't buy them just based on style.
  • kernick, GM thinks their Cadillacs are worth what they want for sticker price, that's why they try and charge that much. Anyone else smell delusion?
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,380
    I didn't state "in Lemo'sBook"....just a global view! ;)

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,380
    Drive a CTS and then a 335i. You think you left half the football team behind in the 3'er...particularly in the twisties! :blush:

    Regards,
    OW
  • jpp5862jpp5862 NCPosts: 352
    Good post. The CTS is a nice car, but not competitive enough against its German and Japanese rivals. It has potential, but GM hasn't capitalized on it. I started to give it a chance when I was considering the A4 and the Lexus IS, but at the same price point, the Caddy just wasn't as good a car. GM is trying, but not hard enough. Sadly the CTS is the only American car that's even close to competing and even it falls short.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,380
    Why?? Because they will never get it.

    They will always end up second-tier at best. The Camaro rated only 4 stars in the frontal offset crash test.

    I'm afraid we will wait a long, long time before their cars are acclaimed as the best in the world....

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,380
    Bankruptcy doesn't exist in Lemko's book. Ha! ;)

    Regards,
    OW
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    Why?? Because they will never get it.

    They will always end up second-tier at best. The Camaro rated only 4 stars in the frontal offset crash test.

    ****
    Yet, Hyundai certainly isn't Honda or Toyota, either. Nearly as good and inexpensive is a great combination in a depressed market.

    Oh - GM's officially on record recently as stating that the next gen CTS will be slightly larger and the upcoming small model(no name yet) will be smaller - 3 series sized.
  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    I don't know why Lemko brings up the subject of his '89 Brougham. He's all but admitted that it's the automotive equivalent of a La-Z-Boy recliner.

    If the strongest claim that he can make for this car is that it's been comparatively trouble-free, then he's pretty much thrown in the towel & conceded that it just doesn't have any style & isn't a top-tier luxury car.

    Then again, it's a Caddy from the 80s. Who would expect otherwise?
  • Circlew-

    But why is it that GM will never get it? Is it as simple as saying.."Because starfruit is starfruit and coconuts are coconuts (no pun intended)?
  • Dude, your '89 Brougham and DTS can be compared to living rooms on wheels. Those types of cars will never help a car manufacturing/ rebadging corp. become standard of the world. I mean let's get realhere. There is no Cadillac that has ever had the prestige of a Rolls Royce. And all Rolls Royce makes is "living rooms" on wheels
  • "GM and their lack of strategy should have put out a quality 3-series type car rather than the typical muscle machine Camaro that is likely going to be a flash in the pan."

    tlong- The reintroduction of the Dodge Challenger and Chevrolet Camaro proves to me that American car companies don't know how to think forward. Those cars look strikingly similar to their 1960's/70's models and SCREAM of the all style and no substance mentality that has sunk GM to the depths that it is now.

    A similar thing was done with the Ford Thunderbird and PT Cruisers a while ago. Those were definitely flashes in the pan, so you could be right about the new Camaro.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,380
    I have hoped they would understand what they did back in the 50/60's. The cars back then were great.

    Can they become great again? 50% market share??

    When the cars become great again. Better than Toyota/Lexus, Mercedes/BMW/Audi, Honda/Acura, Nissan/Infiniti....not almost as good....in ALL categories.

    I agree the G37X is a completely better car AND value than the CTS. I would also choose a BMW or Audi.

    My parents had Caddies and they were NOT world standards. Period. The End.

    Now that we know they will continue to use platforms from GMC, Buick and Chevy, it's a no-brainer that quick ascent to best in class in not in the cards. Their competition has a way better formula to deliver better products. Hyundai has the best marketing campaign that will grow market share (read:customer loyalty) faster than all others, afaic. GM keeps letting the opportunities rot on the ground! Have they learned?

    Remind me of how they will get back all the lost, previous loyal customers. I just do not see it.

    Regards,
    OW
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