Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?

1230231233235236302

Comments

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,353
    I like BMW over Honda. It's World Class Everything. Sorry to keep bursting your bubble. My GM brainwashing days are over and the Caddy second rate cars were a big part of my reality.

    Regards,
    OW
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,120
    ...I can count on my Cadillacs and Buicks to get me to work. When I ask my BIL where his S-Class is, the reply is often, "It's in the shop." Heck, why spend the money on an E-Class for a taxi when you can get a Checker instead?
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,505
    The W220 S-class are the equivalent of those self-destruct Caddys from the 80s. Really, around the year 2000 for MB is equivalent to the 80s for Caddy - a few good cars, and a lot of problems.

    I don't get the taxi bashing, is it any worse than airport lots full of rental DTS? And even CTS existing in some small fleets? I don't think so. And from what I have read, the taxi drivers want the strippo E-class more than any other ride.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    I don't get the taxi bashing, is it any worse than airport lots full of rental DTS? And even CTS existing in some small fleets? I don't think so

    I think that is exactly his point, if I'm reading right. Caddy gets KILLED here for that type of sale, yet it seems ok for MB to do it in the EU.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,505
    I think that could be because the cars MB and others put in those European fleets are a lot different from most retail units - really only sharing a bodyshell and in some cases powertrain. From my experience, the Caddy fleet cars are very similar to the retail models sitting on the lot. One method adds some prestige to the working fleet more than it takes away from the retail lineup. Another reason might be that the Euro competition never suffered the loss of cachet experienced by Caddy, so working fleet cars don't damage the image, they only show the basic cars as being able to take abuse, while at the same time being offered in refined trim.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,476
    Most times they don't even share the drive lines with the regular retail MB and BMW models. The taxi/commercial MB and BMW models are almost always equipped with the smallest diesel engine available. But seriously what do you expect German businesses and governments to use in Germany fleet edition Malibu classics? They are going to use the vehicles built by the companies based in their area so that means BMWs, Mercs and some VWs for the smaller vehicles.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    I don't think that most of the Caddys on the lot are strippers like their fleet counterparts. However, the 1-2 yr old Caddys on the lot are just that; program cars returned from the rental lot, and that hurts both image and resale value.

    Brit, I would EXPECT the EU to use their branded cars, just as we see plenty of Crown Vic's and Impala's doing the dirty work here.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,505
    Exactly. And another important part is that in NA, MB and BMW have an image and a marketing direction of luxury and status and nothing else, while in the EU they are much more mainstream, with offerings as you mention - small diesels, cloth interiors, little gadgetry - the W210 could be had with a small 4 and plastic wheel covers. How the average American sees an E-class isn't the same as the average German.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,476
    Yup you could get roll up windows an a cloth interior in the S-class for a very long time in europe. You could get S320s up until what 1999 or 2001 in the US I think and the S430 up until 2006.Now Merc has gone even more top end for the S-Class as the lowest trim for the US Market is the S500 2matic. The S350 and S320 CDI are offered in the UK still but no more 4 cylinder.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,505
    Heck, you could get a manual transmission in the S-class up through 1991, in a car with plastic wheelcovers, cloth interior, and less than posh trim, but not on this continent of course. It has been moving upmarket here for some time as you mention, no more 6cyl lowline cars. I don't know about a 4cyl S-class, but there is still a 4cyl E in the EU. All of these lowline cars sharing the same structure with V8 barges, hyper AMG models, and V12 plutocrat luxobarges. That's why the marque can get away with plain taxis and fleet specials - a competency still exists, even though the problems.
  • pmc4pmc4 Posts: 198
    "And another important part is that in NA, MB and BMW have an image and a marketing direction of luxury and status and nothing else, while in the EU they are much more mainstream, with offerings as you mention - small diesels, cloth interiors, little gadgetry - the W210 could be had with a small 4 and plastic wheel covers. How the average American sees an E-class isn't the same as the average German."

    Good point! Like I always said, the wealthiest people in this country (Ameica) are also the dumbest. Germans see Mercedes and BMW's for what they really are: Taxi's for the global taxi fleets.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    the wealthiest people in this country (Ameica) are also the dumbest

    Okay, since you are so smart why aren't you as wealthy or wealthier than those so called "rich dumb people". Somehow that just doesn't add up... :confuse:

    I'll let you into some little secret, there are places in this world besides Europe that use MB for taxis, luxurious taxis that is. You see, just because it's a taxi doesn't automatically mean it's not a good car, a car is judged by it's driving dynamics, comfort and reliability. Just because it has a "for rent" sign on top of the roof doesn't mean it is less desirable than a beat up Hyundai.

    Since the new CTS has already hit the rental lot does that make it less desirable than say a Honda Accord?
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,591
    Round and round we continue to go. There is no Standard of the World, don't ya know...

    Again, here's how to determine your Standard of the World (because, does anyone else's Standard really matter to you or your wallet?):

    Research some cars
    Drive some cars
    Buy a car

    And, voila! You have just created Your Standard of the World! Because, unless someone else is paying for (or driving) it, does it really matter what anyone else considers "The" Standard?

    Even if you hold on to the argument that, as there has been no Dewar Trophy awarded since 1906 (ish, forgot the exact date...), Caddy is still the Standard, well, good for you! Of course, that just means nothing in 2008...

    Remember, at Ford, Quality was Job 1. So, Fords must be the Standard of the World for quality. And, the Renault Alliance was The Car of the Year, so it must have been The Standard that year. The VW Beetle was the best selling car in history. If that's not a Standard, then what is? Or is the Standard the Toyota Corolla? The BMW 3 has been on C & D's 10 Best list for like 15 straight years, now there's a Standard. I'm sure that in the very, very few countries on earth where Caddys are not sold, even those auto enthusiasts would recognize Caddy's Standardness.... Not to mention the Trabant, The Standard of the Eastern Block. Had they won the Cold War: Trabant. The Standard of the World. Disagree and you can drive your non-Standard all around Siberia...

    Yes, it is very important to establish The Standard of the World and convince all the world to acknowledge and accept The Standard. It is significant, important and shall continue to determine the success of the Marque that controls this currently most coveted title.

    Hey, that was kinda fun! Please continue because:

    Hey hey. My my. Fanboy arguments will never die!

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,505
    I don't know if I would go so far. The platform of the E is simply so versatile that it can do service in many forms and be competent at each. The old W124 E class existed in sedan, hardtop coupe, convertible, and wagon form - with engines ranging from 2 to 5 litres, from anemic diesel sedans to bahnstorming tuned sedans to posh convertibles to utility wagons. Not many modern cars have done so.

    Germans see MB and BMW as national pride, the little they are allowed - and Germans understand how a car is supposed to drive. I will admit I am biased, I have driven MB since I was in high school and have owned no other marque since - as there is common DNA to how they all drive. Many BMW people feel the same. Both marques have had substantial problems over the past 8-10 years - but still retain an enthusiast base. On the large scale, I don't see this dying.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,353
    Love the post and agree completely...you make your own standard and Caddy, to me, is NOT EVEN CLOSE!

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,353
    Americans USED TO SEE their autos as national pride until the cars became junk. Now it's wake up time because the edge is across both ponds!

    Regards,
    OW
  • aldwaldw Posts: 82
    It's interesting to see how import enthusiasts like to compare American cars with vehicles such as the Trabant, even though on an objective sense there is very little difference between American and Japanese vehicles at this point, except perception. This shows just how pernicious perception can be on actual values of products, however well built they may be.
  • aldwaldw Posts: 82
    There is a world of difference between those who state positive criticisms for the sake of genuine improvement, and those who expound negative criticisms for the sake of see those they hate fail, which is why understanding the actual qualitative basis of products in relation to their perception is important for GM and co.,,,
  • pmc4pmc4 Posts: 198
    The best cars to compare the Trabant to would be German "luxury" cars from the 1970's and 1980's.
  • pmc4pmc4 Posts: 198
    Actually, for the first time in corporate history, Mercedes Benz and BMW are actually making competitive products. Their only problem at this point is reliability and probably price.

    Oh, and the only person I ever saw drive a Cadillac DTS rental car was the President of the US.
    On CNN the other night.

    .
Sign In or Register to comment.