Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?

bumpy

And where is GM going to get this 7-liter blower? The super Corvette is only getting a supercharged 6.2L. If GM wants any real prestige for the CTS-V, it should be the car to introduce the Ultra V8, in twin-turbo form.

lemko

Who the heck cares? I doubt the person who will buy a car with a 600 hp engine has fuel economy as the highest priority. "Gee, I wonder if my 1970 Plymouth Superbird with the 426 Hemi gets better fuel economy than a Toyota Yaris?"

andres3

I think the typical buyer might not have MPG as their top priority, but it's still a factor. I'd much rather have Corvette type gas mileage in my supercar than say, the Hummer.

sls002

I think that the next gen CTS_V may get the Ultra, but that is my guess.

rockylee

I predict Highway fuel economy numbers will be 26-30 mpg because of the tall over-drive.

Rocky

rockylee

bumpy, nobody knows the details yet....

Rocky

plekto

I predict Highway fuel economy numbers will be 26-30 mpg because of the tall over-drive.
****
Heh. Your fault if you get the automatic.

rockylee

Well the 6th gear in the automatic is pretty tall also.

Rocky

autoboy16

Yes the RL is the flagship and was a total wash out. I admit honda screwed it up. Think of the MDX as the flagship. The MDX costs almost $50k fully loaded and IMO is a better value than the RL. The TL is also a better value than the RL.

One space where I see car companies mess up in terms of sales is overlapping. Lets take BMW for example.

The 335i with 300hp or a base 528i with 230hp? For a mom with a kid, she'd get the 5. A father would get the 3.

Also lexus messed up in that department also.
The gs' 303hp 3.5l v6 or the 298hp 4.3l v8?

Acura overlapped the TSX and TL(Base) somewhat but there is difference between the two. Thats something caddy did with the STS and DTS. I hope the Next DTS is FWD. The DTS in the lineup is like Lexus' ES. Its a tweener. Its for people who want a large car with comfort from a certain brand. Sort of like acuras RL but the RL is too small.

More than likely, The next STS will be made with the next Impala and Pontiac G8. Thats probably what Lutz will do.

-Cj

sls002

The next DTS will be RWD and probably will be a zeta platform model (like the G8 and Camaro). What is not clear is what they will do with the STS. The RWD DTS will be a large car (larger than the G8). The price tag will probably remain somewhere near the current levels.

I don't really see the overlap at BMW though. The 335i is under $40,000 before options, while the base 5-series (525) is over $40,000. But more to the point, a 3-series is a different car than the 5-series. The FWD DTS is also a different car than the STS. Even when the RWD DTS is in production, the current STS will be a different car. By the time a RWD DTS goes into production, we may have a new STS too, so there may be some overlap, if both are zeta platform models.

autoboy16

The Cadillac is a good overlap example. With bmw, I meant overlap is in where one model finishes, another starts. The 40k 335i coupe or the 528i sedan? The 550i sedan or a 650i? Still, not a great example...

-CJ

rockylee

2008 CTS Details

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Here are somethings I got from the salesman's guide on the 2008 CTS, that wasn't well-known by the public.

*LED light pipes in headlamps and taillamps
*No visable moldings around fron and rear glass, to provide a clean look.
*Largest exterior gap tolerance is 3mm.
*Ultra View Sunroof covers over 70% of the roof.
*CTS will only use Michelin tires.
*All interior gap tolerances are between 1mm and 2mm.
*All control knobs were tunred for feel.
*Every interior touch point was engineered to be soft-to-the-touch (glove box, door assist handles, center console, etc.)
*Wooven headliners and pillars.
*White ambient LED lighting in door pulls, foot wells, and recessed between upper and lower IP's.
*Front seats use "thin seat" technology.
*Optional "Mulberry" leather seating.
*Available Forward Lighting System and Xenon HID headlamps.
*Available power rake/telescoping steering column.
*Available heated steering wheel.
*Four way power lumbar and articulating head restraints.
*DVD-based navigation system--30% faster at route calculation that current systems.
*8" high-resolution full VGA infotainment display/navigation system and full touch-screen.
*Smart Remote Start System--automatically activates climate control, heated/cooled seats.
*RainSense Wipers
*Heated Windshield Wash System--heats up to 80-degrees Celsius.
*In-dash 6-disc DVD changer--supports variety of media.
*Standard 8-speaker Bose sound system
*Optional Bose True Surround Sound Audio--10 speakers, 300 watts.
*Integrated Hard Disc Drive--USB jack in cent console, CD's downloadable to HDD, and digital audio recording capability.
*4-wheel disc brakes with Dynamic Rear Brake Proporioning--for improved braking in corners.
*3 suspension levels--FE1, FE2, FE3
*Standard Premium ZF Servotronic Steering Gear

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45902

sls002

I guess what you mean by overlap is a price overlap, where one can choose a loaded 3-series or a base 5-series for about the same money. Or, at Cadillac, one can get a loaded CTS for about $42,500. This is the same price as a base STS (V6) or base DTS (V8).

The point is that the 3-series is a 6 cylinder car with very good handling. The 5-series is a bigger, more luxurious sedan that, with the 6, will not handle quite as well. The Cadillacs are also 3 different cars, with the CTS a V6 car, that being smaller, will handle better than the STS, which is bigger. The DTS is a FWD luxury barge style of car. I can't see that anyone who knows what they are buying will be confused about what they want. I would probably prefer the CTS with a nav to the base STS.

What I am thinking about getting is an SRX program car though.

62vetteefp

Price overlap is in every vehicle manufaturer out there. Why even discuss it? Just the way it is. Why does a slightly larger car have to be more expensive than a slightly smaller car?

That would only work if they both had the same features on all versions of each model. But that is not the way it works. The buying Public, the market, wants a range of choices on, say the 3 series, and the 5 series. A base 5 series will have less equipment than a loaded 3 series so they will overlap in how much they cost. So I guess the question is should BMW not sell the lightly featured 5 series? I would say not since they seem to be selling them.

jkr2106

*Smart Remote Start System--automatically activates climate control, heated/cooled seats.

Looks good, if I had the money I'd definately get one (hopefully one of my parents will consider it in 2010). I'm a little old-fashioned, though (even though I'm only 18) about this technology. What I would much rather see Cadillac have standard is keyless start (as in a button on the dash). Remote start is a nice option for those who want it, but I don't like the prospect of falling asleep with my keys in my pocket and finding the car running.

Is keyless start available w/o remote start? That would make Cadillac the Standard of MY World.

rockylee

Hitting a button is not a major sales decider for me. Well your 18, and thus have a lot of options. I don't know your finacial situation but you can get a very nice used luxury car that you probably can afford. My suggestions would be used Bonnevilles, Olds Aurora's, Buick Rivera's from 95-99, Cadillac's Sevilles, Devilles, Eldorado's, CTS's All of these cars would be cheaper on insurance and you would have a powerful nice car being just 18. Just a suggestion

Rocky

rorr

"Hitting a button is not a major sales decider for me."

Hey, rock....I don't think any of those examples have keyless start. Just because they may not be a major sales decider for you, doesn't mean they aren't for someone else....

rockylee

Good god hitting a button to start my car on the inside is a deal breaker ? I'd rather have a keyless start feature than hitting a button on the dash to start my car. The keyless remote on the 08' CTS also allows me to turn on my heated seats or AC/Ventialtion function in the CTS, which is more important to me.

Rocky

jkr2106

While I'm sure those are really nice cars, when I do get my car, it will be much smaller and RWD or (preferably) AWD. Plus, I want something a little more current than the obsolete Aurora/Riviera/Seville/Deville/Eldorado. My dream car right now which will never be produced is a Cadillac CTS-V Coupe AWD automatic.

62vetteefp

Whos says it will never be produced? yea, you are right, it may not be an automatic.

jkr2106

Well it's not really a deal breaker (as a college student there's not much of a deal in the first place) but if I had my choice, remote start is not a good fit for me. I like the idea of walking to your car and driving off with the keys never leaving your pocket.

rockylee

My dream car right now which will never be produced is a Cadillac CTS-V Coupe AWD automatic.

Ummm that CTC-V Coupe will be made around 2010 or 2011' their pal. Motor Trend has confirmed a CATS Coupe and only reasonable logic says a "V" version will be made of the coupe. I'm probably going to wait for a CTS-V Sedan in 2009' as my next car. I could take the premature plunge on a 08' Model this summer but I need to get confirmation on when the CTS-V will be released. Will it come out in January of 08' as a 2009 model ? Or will it come out in the fall of 08' as a 09' Model. I might use my GM discount this summer get a 08' CTS and then sell it a year later and get a 09' CTS-V I think I could break even doing that if not make a small profit

Rocky

rockylee

That is correct it may not be a automatic. I hope GM, will look at a DSG tranny real soon which are dual-clutch like used in Audi's/BMW 3/5 series/Mitsu EVO-X which can shift way faster than any human in a manual as they grab the next gear before releasing the current gear.

Rocky

rockylee

I know that feature is nice and I'm not sure if that is impossible to do on the CTS ? Maybe 62' knows ? I think the STS you can do this in right ?

Rocky

jkr2106

That was my point: I won't get V--AWD--AUTO :sick:
You never know, but I believe the current CTS-V is not available with auto, only the STS. AND both are RWD not AWD.

rockylee

No auto's in the current CTS-V, but the next one could have one. AWD, is available on the 08' CTS but I doubt it will be on the "V".

I do have a easy solution to solve your problems pal and I'm serious. Buy a 2008' Cadillac CTS AWD which I think only comes with a automatic only with AWD anyways. Buy you a couple of Turbo's or Supercharger + Chip and you will have CTS-V power for less than a CTS-V and it will be configured to your liking.

So I am sort of a Mr. Obvious

Rocky

xrunner2

My suggestions would be used Bonnevilles, Olds Aurora's, Buick Rivera's from 95-99, Cadillac's Sevilles, Devilles, Eldorado's, CTS's

For someone that might have limited funds for REPAIRS, consider checking Consumer Reports(CR) for best buys in used cars in different price ranges. Some of the older GMs do not have best reliability records according to CR.

Regarding another post on features on upcoming CTS: While lots of features include latest technology, wonder about how well these features age. New Caddy owner should not have to be concerned about reliability of these since warranty in effect. But, wonder how reliable all the gadgets will be to used car buyers wanting a 5-10 year old car.

sls002

Any aging car will need more repairs than a new one. However, if repairs are a worrysome item, then buying an aging car with minimal "stuff" (power this and that) will help. I think that an owner of an aging vehicle can minimize repair costs by keeping a close eye on fluid levels (oil, coolant, power steering fluid, transmission fluids........). My 2002 Seville has been very good so far, but is just entering the 5 year age group. Anyone that buys this age of Seville will probably get it for about $15,000 now, but this car listed at more than $50,000 new. So, what you save by buying used will leave you with $10's of thousands for repair costs. I think $10,000 would go a long way on repairs.

bumpy

Except that the bank won't finance a credit line for repairs as easily as they will finance a 36-month lease on a new car.

xrunner2

Any aging car will need more repairs than a new one.

True.

I usually buy new, and would be very leery of buying "any" used 5-10+ year old vehicle loaded with every conceivable option and gadget.

And, there is "degree" or amount of repairs and how serious. According to CR, not all car brands/models are created equally. Being this is a Cadillac board, I have seen more black circles for Cadillac than for Lexus in CR. According to CR info then, Cadillac of the past (used cars), might be more trouble prone. Seems that Lexus set the standard for reliability and hopefully Cadillac/GM can match it.

imidazol97

>Consumer Reports(CR) for best buys in used cars in different price ranges. Some of the older GMs do not have best reliability records according to CR.

I don't trust CR because of their lack of thorough presentation of their data. While CR may hint on some models, foreigns included, as to trends in repair problems, the wise used buyer might ask a trusted mechanic about different cars of age at different prices and the likelihood of troublesome repairs beyond the typical. I.e., sludge in Toyotas and VWs. Spending a $100 to have a trusted mechanic inspect a car for you before purchase is probably the best insurance. They might get a cheaper priced vehicle without the aura pricing that will as serviceable or more serviceable than the popular car.

CR is not the Bible in as it's like asking an Edmunds reviewer whether they prefer the S2000, Boxster, Solstice.

xrunner2

CR is not the Bible in as it's like asking an Edmunds reviewer whether they prefer the S2000, Boxster, Solstice.

It might be better than the Bible. Some have said that Bible is based on heresay. CR info based on facts/data (not opinions) collected from actual owners of vehicles.

Edmunds road tests also include data from various road tests that can be used to make comparisons on performance of vehicles. So, there is more than just opinion in Edmunds.

My trusted mechanics/techs are at Honda dealer (20 years), Acura and Nissan dealers. Should I ask one of them for an opinion on a used Caddy that I might be interested in?

imidazol97

>for an opinion on a used Caddy that I might be interested in

Yup, they might be more knowledgeable than you think. Otherwise you need to get out more and meet other mechanics.

>CR info based on facts/data (not opinions) collected from actual owners of vehicles.

That depends on how much one understands about statistics and data collection and margin of errors. CR gives none of that and flavor the info with their own opinion, which while not hearsay, is still opinion. Ditto, Edmunds testers.

In re Cadillac: this is the first five paragraphs of Edmund's tester's journalism about his car:

The 2007 Cadillac DTS is 17 feet long. Yet somehow it is so easy to overlook.

When was the last time you noticed one? The full-size 2007 DTS is also the Cadillac that's habitually marginalized by the automotive press as a holdover, old-school Caddy driven only by very old men who smell strongly of medicinal salves or livery-service drivers who smell strongly of Drakkar Noir.

Certainly there is some truth to these stereotypes.

Assuming it wasn't a taxi, the last car that picked you up at the airport probably was either a Lincoln Town Car or a Cadillac DTS. It was black. And it smelled. And the only privately owned DTS that you've seen that wasn't being driven by an old man with lumbago was painted Mary-Kay pink.

(Incidentally, for the 2007 model year, Cadillac has modified the pink paint it uses on the Mary Kay DTS. "Mary Kay V is making everyone forget Mary Kay IV," says one Cadillac official. "Mary Kay IV is so 2006.")

62vetteefp

I can just feel the hate and bias from that tester. Wow. Next thing you know he/she will say that all those very old men who smell strongly of medicinal salves or livery-service drivers who smell strongly of Drakkar Noir. do not deserve to live and should be shot!

imidazol97

Same writer testing the Camry 2007 long term test. He threw this in about DTS's gas mileage as he marveled at 31 mpg for Camry from LA to Chicago (my leSabre would get 32-33 same trip fully loaded).

P.S. The other thing I discovered in the EPA's listing of fuel economy: A Chrysler 300C SRT-8 is estimated to return 14/20 mpg City/Highway, or exactly the same fuel economy as a Cadillac DTS Funeral Coach/Hearse. Make of that what you will.--Daniel Pund, Senior Editor, Detroit at 12,295 miles.

Sounds like GM is a permanent burr.

Mr_Shiftright

Actually it sounds like he's knocking the Chrysler as a death trap. No one expects a hearse to give good gas mileage.

62vetteefp

Death-trap? thinks you meant gas hog?

Mr_Shiftright

Well that's possible, too. In any event, to me the intent was to not flatter the SRT rather than diss the Cadillac.

imidazol97

I found another article by the same writer about the 2007 Camry. He uses the same 'arrogant journalist' writing style. But he's not nearly as negative as about the Cadillac.

rockylee

imidazol97,

You found some pretty biased articles. It still amazes me people love the CR bible so much and parrot it's propoganda as only the truth. Any 10 year old car is subject for electrical failures as testing usually doesn't reach that far back into history. I don't care if it's a GM, Honda, Toyota, all older cars wear. I was pointing out one could get a nice used GM luxury car, buy a warranty and feel pretty secure about their investment.

Rocky

Mr_Shiftright

But you can't get a warranty with a car that is too old or has too many miles, certainly not with any ten year old car (that I'm aware of).

BeamerMan

May I enter this discussion. First Consumer reports is bull s--. They are in the pocket of Honda and Toyota. I am a nut for research and have not owned an American car in 30 years and am a baby boomer. Last car leased a bmw 5 series. I drove the Cadillac Sts and fell in love with it. I have had it for 3 weeks and it is great, good fit and finish, quiet. gorgeous interior love the rear wheel drive and forget snow I grew up on rear wheel drive cars. I got the base but still have all kinds of features, onstar with trip directions( they download to radio, my own voice activated cell with its own number, ONSTAR is incredible.

Now the best news. As a Beamer leaser they sent me a 2000.00 coupon for the purchase, got 1000.00 for being a beamer owner, 2500.00 dealer cash and a rebate of 1500.00. I leased it no money down 424 a month for 36 months, 4 yet 50 k bumper to bumper that even covers tires. 6/100,000 drive train, I even got a call last evening from the plant manager at the factory that built it to ask if I liked the car. very nice touch. GM is on the way back and I am happy to help. Kudos to GM for getting their act together. I like buying American.

gagrice

I will have to crunch the numbers to see if my GM, discount will cover the depreciation

Not likely. I worked with a guy that bought a new car under his brother's discount every 2-3 years. He bought the same time I did in Summer of 05'. He went back to Michigan to PU his new Denali. When he got back home to Long Beach he found a dealer that would sell him the same vehicle for $1500 less than he paid. He was not happy. He also took a big hit on the 2 year old Yukon he sold. The family discounts are not what they used to be at GM.

rockylee

Ummm, I've heard of people getting warranty's on older cars. Maybe not 10 year old cars but 5-8 yr. old cars I have. Especially if the mileage is low.

Rocky

bumpy

V12 Cadillac XLS

I see someone decided to revive the old Twin-Six idea.

jkr2106

It's so beautiful!!!

rayainsw

"First Consumer reports is bull s--. "

Based on?
- Ray
Very curious.....

louiswei

Based on?

Other kinds of animial s---?

:confuse:

gasman1

Nice! You got a sweet deal! I've had rebates before, but $7K. All I can say is, WOW! The call from the plant manager was a very nice gesture. Wish you (and GM) the best!

snakeweasel

Based on?

Based on the fact that CR has given two different reviews to the exact same thing an many occasions (the only difference was the name on the product).

Based on the fact that I have seen CR rate something as best and not even have what everyone else and their brother considers better in their rating.