Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?

rockylee

Well not all those vehicles are just made in Mexico or Canada, as an example the Silverado also is made in Ft. Wayne, Indiana.

I will also will add I'd rather buy a car made in Canada, than in China.

As far as your comment goes about GM, should build in China, so they get their quality up sounded like a cheap shot. But I'll leave it alone.

Rocky

rockylee

So that's where the pet food is coming from lemko ? Wasn't it sold at Walley World stores ?

Back to Cadillac, I have a question to ask lemko. Do you like the changes made to the 2008' STS ?

Rocky

mediapusher

Well the quality certainly doesn't seem to be up to par when they're built here, so what do you suggest?. I say have them built in Canada. And it wasn't a cheap shot..I was trying to think of the best solution...If GM is doing so great we wouldn't be having this standard of the world discussion, now would we? You don't see anyone asking if Lexus is going to be standard of the world do you?, cause they'd be embarrassed that there would be too many yes's or "they already are's"

lemko

The company subject to the pet food recalls is called MenuFoods who manufactures all kinds of grades of pet food from the cheap Sav-A-Lot brand to upscale brands like Eukanuba and Iams. I understand it is limited mostly to wet foods like that in cans and foil packets.

I love the changes done to the CTS. What was done to the STS? The DTS is the car that's currently on my radar.

mediapusher

Although it looks very nice the new 2008 Cadillac CTS looks like a rehashed version of the late 80's short sized Eldorados

lemko

You mean the diminutive 1986-era Seville as it was a four-door. The Eldorado was a coupe. The CTS is exponentially nicer than either. I get a magazine from the Cadillac-LaSalle club and an article showed a beautiful red CTS finished in Passion Red. The car is too small for me, but it would make an awesome ride for my girlfriend.

mediapusher

Yes, that's what I mean. And I don't think Cadillac realizes how anxious people are for this car.
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You mean the diminutive 1986-era Seville as it was a four-door. The Eldorado was a coupe. The CTS is exponentially nicer than either. I get a magazine from the Cadillac-LaSalle club and an article showed a beautiful red CTS finished in Passion Red. The car is too small for me, but it would make an awesome ride for my girlfriend.

lemko

I think Cadillac is wasting it's time with the 2007 CTS. They should bring the 2008 out early. I don't have a problem with the current car, but - wow - the 2008 is so much nicer!

mediapusher

Again lemko, that's one of GM's/ Cadillac's continuing problem. You know, I know, everyone else knows, but they don't know...:)
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Replying to: mediapusher (Apr 06, 2007 8:58 pm)

I think Cadillac is wasting it's time with the 2007 CTS. They should bring the 2008 out early. I don't have a problem with the current car, but - wow - the 2008 is so much nicer!

rockylee

The 08' CTS, is still on my radar. I can't wait to get a confirmed date on the release of the CTS-V, and how much ?

Rocky

Mr_Shiftright

GM got into trouble, and especially Cadillac, because Americans didn't buy their products...so really the distress of the Big 2.5 today is simply the historical result of the most massive consumer boycott in American history during the 1980s....your parents voted with their checkbooks to buy more and more foreign cars because they were better.

It's quite possible that brands like Toyota and Honda are riding on brand equity rather than any significant superiority, but that brand equity is worth billions and Cadillac doesn't have it anymore....gave it away to the Germans and the Japanese.,,, much like the British motorcycle industry gave it away to the Japanese in the 1970s. Harley Davidson kept its brand equity through some shrewd marketing and great styling, even though their products are as mediocre as ever.

GM didn't try to save Cadillac by being shrewd or clever in either marketing or styling---if anything, GM helped the Japanese and Germans by being so gutless in protecting Cadillac from losing its prestige IMO. The abuse of the Cadillac brand is a black mark in GM history and it was an incredible blunder.

rockylee

Shifty, you can think Roger Smith for the 1980's Cadillac's :sick:

Rocky

bumpy

Late '80s and early '90s Cadillacs. Given the lead times and delays in product design at GM back then, the V-864 and Cimmaron belong to this guy.

rockylee

My family never cared much for him also. He and Roger, came from the same Hen House philosophy wise :mad:

Rocky

lemko

Lee Iacocca had a better description of Thomas Murphy. He called him a horse's (expletive deleted)!

My own description of Roger Smith is that he was one of the 20th Century's worst monsters. He belongs in the same category as Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, and Idi Amin.

poncho167

Unfortunately I was not able to find these sources that I should have saved. I do recall Porsche being #1, with Luxas or Cadillac #2, Buick and two others in the top 5. The Korean Hyundai as a car line was not good in this study even though Sonata was top rated in initial quality.

The JD Power 2006 dependability study for the number of problems per vehicle had Lexus #1. Here is a partial list of the top ones with an industry average of 227.

2006 Nameplate Ranking
Problems per 100 Vehicles

Lexus 136
Mercury 151
Buick 153
Cadillac 163
Toyota 179
Acura 184
Honda 194
Jaguar 210
BMW 212
Infiniti 215
Lincoln 220
Ford 224
Oldsmobile 224

gagrice

In all fairness to the times of the ill fated Cimarron, the auto industry was in chaos. CAFE standards were there and a big fines were tacked on all automakers that did not keep to that average in their fleet. A company like Cadillac was not exempt because they only built tuna boats. I think we forget that Toyota and Honda cars were not that great in the 1980s either. Toyota is living on the reliable cars they built during the 1990s and early 21st century. Times are a changing. If these other brands are so much better than Cadillac, why are they not matching the warranty offered by GM. If Lexus is so reliable they should not hesitate to offer 7 years 100k miles without paying a gob of money extra.

My local Caddy dealer has low mileage certified Cadillacs with 6 years and 100k miles on the lot for normal dealer TMV prices. I think a used Caddy is the most bang for the luxury buck going. Though I have found you can buy year old LX470 $15 grand under trade-in TMV, here in San Diego. They were so over priced anyway. Neighbor bought a perfect 2006 LX470 with 20k miles for $33,500. Dealer offered less in trade on a new Lexus.

poncho167

lokki, I believe the information that has eluded me was either from JD Power or Wards Automotive studies. I will try and save information in the future. JD Power's website was of no use. I think they want you to subscribe for the info.

cooterbfd

Gee, no backlash to Chinese built Buicks, huh?

cooterbfd

I have not had anything weird go wrong with the car, like brake manifolds falling off or water pump failing, or head gaskets blowing, etc...crankshaft suddenly falling, etc..

I can see the head gasket, but everything else in this quote is MINOR compared to a transmission. 23 years of driving GM products and I have NEVER replaced a tranny, or any other MAJOR component. :lemon: 's, I THINK NOT!!!!

imidazol97

>brake manifolds

What's a brake manifold?

plekto

I'll tell you what facts apply RockyLee. The horrible experiences I've had with GM cars compared to Toyota cars

Dates. Models. I refuse to listen to another sentance of you yelling how bad GM is without coughing up specifics.

My guess is that your bad GM cars were all over a decade ago and you're living in the past.

Mr_Shiftright

Good cars don't need long warranties is the best answer I can give. The more someone wants what you have, the less you have to build their confidence.

Long warranties are a marketing tool--the worse your car, or the worse your market position, the longer your warranty should be....why would you extend a warranty on a product that performs well? Makes no financial sense.

Look who historically pushed the concept of the long warranty----Hyundai, Chrysler and Mitsubishi---- 'nuff said.

snakeweasel

The one question I would have is whats a typical problem for each car. I could better live with 2 problems a Ford might have if its a light that burns out and a knob that falls off over one problem that a Lexus has if its the engine falling out.

snakeweasel

Good cars don't need long warranties is the best answer I can give.

Then the question is if it is such a good car and doesn't need a longer warranty why try to sell extended warranties at the time of sale? I see a longer warranty as a willingness to stand behind a car. people don't stand behind something like that if they know its no good.

gagrice

The answer I see given to the folks with failed hybrids the most, is. You should have bought the extended warranty. What were you thinking with all the high tech? And those are mostly Toyota hybrids that have VERY expensive replacement parts after the 3yr 36k mile warranty expires. The only things covered under the hybrid warranty is what ever the state requires the automaker to cover. Very little it turns out. The fact that Cadillac and GM have extended the warranty is a sign they are confident in their newer offerings. Same with Hyundai. Not ToyLex and Honda. My Mercedes Sprinter conversion van came with a 7Yr 75k mile standard warranty. Not a $2000 add on as many offer.

rockylee

gagrice, Lexus, SUV's are the cheap in Cali ? :surprise:

Rocky

rockylee

I agree....It's like buying a electronic device or an appliance. If the company stands behind it that means it must be good.

Rocky

cooterbfd

Ask mediapusher-it's HIS comment. My guess is it's held in with a kiniffeling pin

Mr_Shiftright

Extended warranties that you buy aren't warranties, right? They are insurance policies, and GREAT profit generators for dealers. You're betting your car screws up, and the warranty company is betting it doesn't screw up beyond the $$$ you paid for the policy. This is why an extended warranty on a Jaguar or Benz costs more---the actuarial tables suggest worse odds for the warranty company than they do for a Honda.

I'd buy an extended warranty if I had a Mercedes, too, but I didn't when I bought the Toyota---the odds are against needing it IMO. I'm playing the odds in other words.

On the other hand, any company offering genuine factory extended warranties right out the door at no cost to the consumer is like a developer of condos saying: "This used to be a bad neighborhood, but now we're offering 24 hour police protection".

GM and Cadillac need to extend the warranty for marketing purposes. It's meant to restore buyer confidence in the product. And it does work!

I'm not saying the consumer SHOULDN'T have confidence in a GM product, I'm just saying they don't have it now and they need encouragement.

Smart move. I'd do it too if I were CEO of GM, and if the company could afford it. Time will tell. If the product still isn't any good, extended warranties will bust GM. Not the first time this has happened to a company.

rockylee

Agree..

Rocky

rockylee

Shifty, you put up a good arguement pal. It's hard to argue your position but I think a lot of us think they are confident in the product and want to show the consumer why they should be also.

Rocky

gagrice

There are a lot of unhappy Toyota owners that thought like you do. It is a crap shoot anymore with any car that is not under warranty. The cost of repair has gone up a lot faster than the average wages in this country. You could say the same about health insurance. The difference is if you are sick, broke with out insurance the law requires that you be cared for on the tax payers dollar. That is not the case with a $5000 repair bill on a car past the warranty. ToyLex cost as much or more to repair as a Cadillac.

rockylee

ToyLex cost as much or more to repair as a Cadillac.

So their cost to repair is still high ? I assumed by now they would be at least equal to the domestics. :confuse:

Rocky

Mr_Shiftright

Any modern car is expensive to fix. It costs the same per hour to fix a Hyundai as an Aston Martin, only it's more hours and more expensive parts.

I don't feel like Toyota owes me, or Cadillac owes me one MINUTE past their warranty. That's their warranty. 5 years, take it or leave it. I fully understand that when I buy the car.

What I'm really anxious about it buying a car that breaks constantly within the warranty---wherein I'm making car payments on a car that isn't working.

Now THAT sucks and I don't want to go there.

rockylee

Well Hyundai, has you covered for a long time both bumper to bumper 6/60K and 10/100K powertrain. GM, also has a decent powertrain warranty 5/100K and in the case of Buick, Cadillac, Saab, they have a 4/50K warranty bumper to bumper.

I thought I read on this site hyundai, ranked at the top in reliabilty scores ? I could be wrong. I know they rank among the leaders.

I still think it's like dice, luck with the throw.

Rocky

gagrice

The Caddy dealer near me gives 6 year 100k mile bumper to bumper $0 deductible with every Certified used Cadillac. That is the reason I tried talking my wife into the 2006 White Diamond Escalade. She just does not like the looks. Prefers the Denali Yukon or Envoy. She also likes the GL by MB.

rockylee

Has she seen the new 07's ??????

Rocky

kratas101

gagrice you do know that every GM certified used vehicle now carries a 5yr/100k warranty from their date first date of in service right?

gagrice

That is the factory standard warranty. I would assume the Certified 6 & 100k is some extended warranty. The salesman was very proud of the fact that it was B to B with no deductible. I am sure that was from original date of sale.

Rocky,
My wife does not like the angular lines on the Cadillacs. I guess it appeals to a younger crowd. I drove the 2007 Escalade which was very nice. Except the seats are so much harder than the 2006 and older models. The one I drove was near $70k and the 2006 with 21k miles was $40k. Too big of a hit for me to accept. That is what I am seeing with all the big luxury SUVs. Including the Lexus that is supposed to have great resale.

imidazol97

then give longer warranties. It's not something a company that has total confidence in their reliable product would fail to have. Offering it as an extended warranty to purchase to get 7 years doesn't make sense. Toylex and Honcura should offer the 10 year/100000 powertrain at the very least.

mediapusher

I don't know what it is. I used that term because a woman I worked with said she had the brake manifold replaced for the 9th time and she did the :lemon: law on her Chevrolet Suburban. Did she mean the exhaust system? I don't know. I'm not a mechanic

mediapusher

What are you guys talking about? My car (Toyota Corolla) doesn't cost that much to fix.

It's the cars that have all the gadgets, gizmos and hoo-hahs (luxury cars) that cost a lot of money to fix

mediapusher

Then you might as well times me by millions. If i'm living in the past so be it. That's what GM gets for exploiting its customers of the past, many of whom are still living today and who have not recommended GM cars to their young friends, sons, daughters, or grandchildren.

I've already explained the problems I've had with GM cars. Scrollback and read the blog more thoroughly

That's fine, keep wasting your money on GM cars. It's your money
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reference text:
My guess is that your bad GM cars were all over a decade ago and you're living in the past.

mediapusher

Yes you're right , and we can't grow lettuce without getting cow s--- run off on it so that people don't get sick and die, and our fast food establishments don't know how to fry a hamburger long enough to kill ecoli, we can't even control our borders and sovereignty, and we also produce more serial killers than any other country. And you're point about China would be??

If the argument is they couldn't make a standard of the world Cadillac because of the poison pet food wheat gluten fiasco points you mentioned, that's like the pot calling the kettle black.

Maybe we should worry about cleaning up our own "house" before we start bad mouthing other countries

gagrice

It's the cars that have all the gadgets, gizmos and hoo-hahs (luxury cars) that cost a lot of money to fix

You and I agree on that subject. Although it is not just the luxury cars anymore. You can get all the extra electronic gadgetry in a Civic or Corolla. One poster was complaining on her Toyota that she had bought to get high mileage when her display screen went bad right after the warranty was up. It was going to cost her $1000 to replace. She could not operate the radio, heat or AC without that display. All cars are getting too complex. We are in a throw away society. And cars are just that. Use till something breaks and chuck it.

PS
Except a Cadillac :shades:

mediapusher

Gagrice-

As sad as it is, this is the philosophy that GM operated by for so long. As far as I'm concerned they still do operate by the philosopy of "build it so it breaks" mantra--so that the customer will be forced to come back. This is how GM makes their money. Now with the addition of their new 100,000 mile warranty things may be changing.

The idea that others may be following their "lead" is horrifying. Build reliable products and the loyalty and sales will take care of themselves. Unfortunately many corporations only think of quarterly profits as opposed to long term profits, because they have to please their stockholders. It's sad.

Why do you think such noise was made over HDTV (hyped-delayed television) because televisions were lasting too long. These greedy corporations want us to buy stuff constantly. Many of them don't want products lasting a long time, cause they can't make money that way, so they claim. Remember the television industry. When Sony Trinitron was introduced in 1969/70 ? It had a picture that could stop a customer from clear across the sales floor. My Sony TV lasted 19 years before showing any functioning problems. This is how Japan knows how to compete. Make it much better and make it last, then perhaps they'll taper off a bit, but I don't think by much.
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reference text::::
gagrice wrote
We are in a throw away society. And cars are just that. Use till something breaks and chuck it

gagrice

I got news for you. Toyota has that same idea. They are not building cars like they did in the 1990s. The last 2-3 years have seen some real problems for Toyota. I think that GM is starting to turn around. Though for GM trucks I have not had a problem with the 5 I have owned since 1988. Cars may be a different story.

Mr_Shiftright

I would like to invest in more companies with problems like Toyota. :P "Toyota been pretty good to meee".

mediapusher

GM is starting to turn around? 35 years after the fact? Well imagine that,they're starting to turn around. Puhleeeez. What took them so long? It really amazes me how deluded people are...STARTING to turn around. I've been hearing that for 36 years.

At least Toyota turned it around and gave us what we wanted even if their quality is starting to slip a little bit now.

GM just continued to suck us into their cesspool without ever turning it around until now, how pathetic-- They're just now turning it around. Why are we supposed to find that delay to be acceptable?