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Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?

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  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    thomasw,

    Why don't you tell us how you really feel. Geeeez !!!! :surprise:

    I'm going to say this I'd be willing to bet a good portion of BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, drivers are in debt up to their eyeballs because they are trying to out do their neighbor. ;)

    Perception and having money is two different things obvious. I'd be willing to bet your average Cadillac, driver has alot more money than your average Bimbenzus drivers. :)

    Rocky

    P.S. Blame the UAW card is out again I see. My father saved GM/Delphi $3-4 Million in suggestions in his 27 years.
  • robbiegrobbieg Posts: 327
    Generally, I agree with everything that you said. In particular, I agree with you statement that one "settles for" a GM product. There are of course exceptions, the Corvette, the new Tahoe and Yukon, and the Solstice to name a few.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,726
    "I'd be willing to bet your average Cadillac, driver has alot more money than your average Bimbenzus drivers"

    Wow, must be a big regional difference.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    I think that it is true that GM stops at good enough. However, if the rest of your post were true, then the J. D. Power surveys would put GM at the bottom of the heap. However, the reality is that GM is above the industry average, and Cadillac is only just a bit worse than Lexus, which is the top of the heap.

    What I like about my Cadillac is that there are a number of dealerships in this area. The nearest Lexus, BMW or Acura dealer is a day's drive away.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Just based on people I know here and back home in Michigan. ;)

    It's so bad fintail, one family I know lives in a double- wide but bought a new Benz, and dress in the latest fashions to be perceived as something they are not.

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Nearest Benz and Lexus dealer to me is 3 1/2 hours away from me if you don't stop to eat and fuel once.

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    L.A. Show: Cadillac DTS-L Adds a Few Inches

    LOS ANGELES — Weary late-night travelers arriving at the airport after hours should appreciate Cadillac's new DTS-L, a long-wheelbase version of the front-wheel-drive DTS sedan that arrives in early 2007.

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=117747

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    L.A. Show: Cadillac Adds Platinum Series

    LOS ANGELES — Cadillac continues to focus on elegant, hand-crafted cabins with its new Platinum Series collection, which includes limited editions of the STS, XLR and DTS.

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=117765

    Rocky
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,726
    Must be one heck of a doublewide..

    Around here, you can drive through areas where every house is 1M+ and healthy six figure incomes are common...and you'll see virtually no Caddys save for a scattered 'Slade. In the same areas you can't throw a baseball without hitting a S class or 7er. Caddy doesn't say "money" more than anything else.

    You can lease a new C class just as cheaply as a CTS. I suspect GM financing is no more difficult than MB or BMW, either.

    Maybe dealer location has something to do with it. Within an hour I have 4 MB dealers, and I believe 3 BMW dealers.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Fintail,

    Down here in Tex-[non-permissible content removed] people are still pretty patriotic by nature and prefer domestic cars over foreign. The dealer obstacle I'm sure has a lil' to do with it also. ;) I'm very surprised so many rich folks would want to live in cold and cloudy Washington. Burrrrski ! :P

    Rocky
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,727
    If I may chime in here most people I come across in the BMW's and MB's are usually leveraged. I used to live next to a neighborhood where the least expensive house was in the $600's and lexus and MB's were in every garage. Sure these people had six figure income but most spent it faster than they make it.

    Most Caddy owners tend to live more in their means and usually get their cars when they can afford them easily.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,726
    Good point. Being coastal, there's no domestic loyalty and a big acceptance of Asian cars. Very much like California. I see more Smarts than I see Lucernes...probably as many new Lamborghinis as XLRs.

    Beach an hour away, mountains an hour away, desert 2 hours away, grinding traffic, laughably inflated house prices, slightly higher wages, passive aggressive local psyche - WA has it all.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,726
    I think most Caddy owners (present company excluded) are of the generation that recalls the depression, and is more frugal...not to mention that they were young when Caddy really was a standard of the world. I guess they are at a point where they can afford them easily - respectable middle class house is long paid off, no real consumer debt to speak of, retirement funds more than paying the bills...time to rewards oneself. Younger people do it earlier today, and assume more debt. Younger people for the most part don't buy Caddys though.

    I don't see the Escalade market as especially frugal anyway. DTS however, very much so, especially as so many are bought as near-new.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    desert 2 hours away

    What ?

    Rocky
  • JD Powers only measures for the first three years. Not having major problems during the first three years should be a given in any car.

    Consumer Reports measures longer, and the trail of black dots next to GM vehicles is telling. So does GM's litany of recalls (how many times has the TrailBlazer been recalled???)

    Car and Driver did a long term test of a Cadilllac SRX. It left them stranded multiple times, and they mentioned that in the 30-40,000 mile range had numerous and excessive squeeks and rattles.

    Hardly confidence inspiring ...
  • I will respectfully submit that the C class isn't keeping CTS sales from being class leading.

    BMW, Acura and Infiniti rule the ELPS market. The CTS puts up decent sales numbers. Cadillac is weakest in the true luxury markets dominated by BMW, Mercedes and Lexus (think 5,7 series classes). I agree with everyone that Cadillac would need to hit a tremendous home run to rebuild its brand in the Pacific Northwest and the Atlantic Northeast. Cadillac's still mean something in the Southeast, too.

    Rocky, I live in Austin which is very much in Texas. This is an Infiniti town. There are more G35's on the road than Chevy Impala/Malibu's here. There are some 3 series here but not like in the Bay Area or Los Angeles.

    What may work in Caddy's favor is if they build a compelling product is for people to buy Caddy's to differentiate themselves from all the BMW's, Infinitis and Lexus' around. It's starting to work for Audi.

    Standard of the world? Hmm... Even Lexus doesn't have that big of a worldwide market outside of the US. BMW and Mercedes are #1/#2 worldwide. Lexus and Cadillac are #1/#2 in the US.

    GM would need to devote a ton of money that they don't have into building the Cadillac brand worlwide ahead of Audi/BMW/Mercedes. They have the dealer network and the manufacturing capacity. They just need to continue to work on product and make sure that it is class leading (luxury, performance, value, gadgets, etc.) not just merely "good enough".
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    I find Infiniti, #1 in Austin, Tx very interesting. :surprise: ........ We here in the Panhandle, don't have a infiniti dealership. The closest one to my house would be approx. 5 hours away. The Panhandle as far as luxury cars go is Cadillac country. However the #1 vehicals are GM and Ford SUV's and Trucks followed by Dodge Trucks with Cummins Diesels. ;)

    Rocky
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,726
    2 hours east of here...semi-high desert. No cacti (that I know of), but sand dunes, sagebrush, tumbleweeds, 115-120 in the summer, etc
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,726
    The C is no sales volume leader, but pricewise it compares to the CTS, and still racks up some sales even though it dates back to MY 2001. Early ones were kind of dodgy (hey, like CTS interiors) but current ones seem to be sorted out.

    I don't see Caddy developing any large scale worldwide presence, not until I am very old at the earliest. Ask Lexus...Europe is a very tough market to crack.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    What ?

    In Idaho ?

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    I don't see Caddy developing any large scale worldwide presence, not until I am very old at the earliest.

    Wow, you consider 40 old ? :P

    I disagree with you on that one. They have a few compact cars designed just for that market in the pipeline. I believe GM, is going to build a new plant in Warsaw Poland, if my memory is working right.

    Rocky
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,726
    Eastern WA. Especially east of the Columbia.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,726
    You mean 90, right?

    Europe is a tough market to crack. GM has many factories - where they have made Vauxhalls and Opels for decades. That won't help them sell Caddies to people fiercely loyal to MB and BMW. Caddy has never been more than a small blip on the radar in Europe, and usually not even that.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Washington State can get that hot ? I never knew their was a desert in WA. Interesting..... :surprise:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    I think success with Cadillac, in europe won't take as long as you think Fintail. I'm not saying it will be a sales leader but with the right products and our rapidly deflating dollar Cadillac will be able to under cut the premium brands just like the Japanese do us. So call me a optimist if ya like. :P

    Rocky

    P.S. You will be younger than 50' lets put it that way. ;)
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,726
    Lexus has been trying to crack Europe in some form for a decade, and is making amusingly slow progress. The same Lexus that re-arranged the NA market in the blink of an eye. Somehow I trust Lexus marketers more than I do those hired by GM. Dinosaur rock won't sell cars on the continent. Price in that end of the auto market there isn't nearly the selling point as it is here, either. They tried to sell the old STS in England, the price was low compared to the competition, but it was simply called "trashy luxury" by CAR. Substance and tradition have much more value, and people are much more sensitive to material quality in luxury cars (wood, leather, paint). Optimist indeed.

    150 maybe.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    ROTFLMAO :D 150, eh ?

    That's only 80 years away for you. :P

    Rocky
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,168
    Third, once one gets outside the Midwest, the Cadillac brand has zero cache

    Really? Philadelphia is far from the Midwest and Cadillac still has a lot of brand equity. So does Buick. We just hired a young guy at my workplace and he tells me about a lot of the other younger guys driving Buicks and that they seem hot right now. I think young people are getting sick of Mommy's Camcord and the poseur "F&F" crowd.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,168
    Very true. My girlfriend's brother-in-law has an MBA, a nice house in Connecticut, drives a new BMW, and asked to stay at my house to attend my girlfriend's Dad's funeral because he didn't have the money for a hotel room. Pathetic!

    Funny thing is, the dummy managed to wreck his Bimmer on the Roosevelt Blvd. Anybody familiar with the Roosevelt Blvd. knows what a dangerous, poorly-designed road it is and all the convoluted cross-overs and psychopathic drivers. This dummy tried going 60 mph through a cross-over, hit the concrete curb, and flipped the 5-Series on its side pretty much totalling it. I come home from work to get a phone call that he is in the hospital getting checked out, but they will release him that night. His wife, (my girlfriend's sister) was in worse shape and had to be kept overnight and missed her own father's funeral. I wonder how he felt getting a ride home in my old Park Ave?
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,168
    Heck, I I probably appear to be less than what I am. I live in a modest house where my mortgage is less than most people's rent. I mostly drive my old Park Avenue and dress more like your average blue-collar worker than some management-type despite the fact I'm the boss of my department. I have no credit card debt and all my cars are long since paid for.
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