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Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?

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  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    But what was wrong with the 1990s Cadillacs?

    They looked nicer than their '80s predecessors, but they were also 5-20 years (depending on the model) behind their German and Japanese counterparts in technology and design. Your 1989 Brougham is basically a 1969 Caprice with some ill-considered emissions equipment added on.
  • mediapushermediapusher Posts: 305
    Lemko-

    I agree with you, but the problem with the Cadillac Seville is that is wasn't a CTS. Cadillac needs more of a line up similar to their CTS's. Look at what a hit the CTS has been. A little more tweaking and refining and they can use the CTS as their "frame".

    I'm really surprised the STS has had so many problems, since it's basically a longer CTS on steroids. And uhh.... the Catera :( puhleeeez. What a nightmare the Catera was.

    Cadillac still has too many "highway ocean liners". People that enjoy driving, don't like those kind of cars. We want something more sprite and athletic. Even the XLR gets mixed reviews. It's not refined enough for the price they want for it.

    Another problem is that GM always seems to be way behind the competition and has strange marketing tactics, as if all they want to do is insult their potential customers. (e.g. -- The "C.E.O but not quite" commercial for the CTS, and "The Power of &")
  • mariner7mariner7 Posts: 509
    I doubt Lexus, and especially Infiniti, will find much success in Europe as Europeans are even more fiercely loyal to their own luxury makes.

    1) Higher growth is to be found in the big developing countries (China, India, Russia) which are not as loyal to the Germans. Lexus and Infiniti are moving in there, in many cases even before they move into Europe.

    2) Toyota and Nissan are very patient. Toyota likes to brag they were in the US for 20 odd years (from the 50's) until they realized any profit. Same thing in Europe, for a long time the Japanese share remained stagnant, but recently it gained more than any other sector. One reason is EC expansion, so auto nationalism was much reduced: now Renault, Peugeot and VW all produce cars in eastern Europe (sounds familiar, doesn't it, American cars made south of the border!). And most importantly, the German makes can't seem to erase the quality gap with the Japanese. That gap will not erode loyalty overnight, but it most probably will over time.

    I said Caddy will have to hard expanding overseas mainly because GM of NA has almost no experience exporting cars. The only GM divisions with export experience are Opel and Saab.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    The only GM divisions with export experience are Opel and Saab.

    And Holden.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    They did the same thing in January 2007 with their Chevrolet Volt Electric Concept Car, which they don't and sadly engough never did intend on bringing to production.

    Do you have anything to back this up? I know the guys (whoops and gals) working on it. There will be one. However it will not make the promises of 40 miles per charge UNLESS the batteries get better. Luckily battery tech is rapidly changing and we may have a battery by 2011 that will come close to the goal.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    and GM Daewoo and every other division that builds cars. In fact what division/engineering center does not export cars?
  • mediapushermediapusher Posts: 305
    Here's your back up sir :|

    http://www.denverpost.com/ci_5510138?source=rss

    And what are they gonna do 62vetteefp, if and whenever it comes to fruition; build it, then "kill" it a couple years later like they did with the EV1?????

    _______________________________________________

    reference text::::
    They did the same thing in January 2007 with their Chevrolet Volt Electric Concept Car, which they don't and sadly engough never did intend on bringing to production.

    Do you have anything to back this up? I know the guys (whoops and gals) working on it. There will be one. However it will not make the promises of 40 miles per charge UNLESS the batteries get better. Luckily battery tech is rapidly changing and we may have a battery by 2011 that will come close to the goal
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    However it will not make the promises of 40 miles per charge UNLESS the batteries get better.

    The batteries already exist, just not at a price that GM is willing to pay.
  • punkr77punkr77 Posts: 183
    Very few of the big American cars will see any success in Europe, but not just because of fierce country loyalty. Most vehicles that are successful here just don't fit the conditions overseas. Big cars and SUV's are ill suited to the European driving environment. Traffic in most Urban areas makes rush hour in Manhattan look tame, parking spaces are few and far between, narrow streets, and super high gas prices and tiny garages are just a few of the differences.

    Kind of like the Smart car's introduction to America, only in reverse.

    If you add in the costs of shipping the cars overseas, extended dealer networks, etc. and Caddy wouldn't be able to compete price-wise either. Think BMW in reverse. BMW's run thouands of dollars more here than they do in country.
  • punkr77punkr77 Posts: 183
    Mediapusher's post is a perfect example of why GM and the rest of the Big 3 have their work cut out for them. There's a large segment of the population that hold a huge amount of animosity towards GM for very personal reasons.

    It's kind of like poor customer service at a restauraunt. Most people don't complain, they just never go back and tell every person who will listen how bad their experience was. There are legions of people for whom GM=junk, overcoming that will take years (which GM may or may not survive).

    Caddy, along with the rest of GM will likely never bring them back into the fold. Worse, they have another huge chunk of the population that has been saturated with GM horror stories from the age of 16 on.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,993
    build it, then "kill" it a couple years later like they did with the EV1?????

    That was strictly political. The other automakers including Toyota did the same with their EV offerings. CA and CARB pulled the rug out from under the ZEV program. Every electric vehicle was a loss to the manufacturer, brought on by an ill conceived law. Then the law was rescinded. Not GMs fault. Blame the CA legislature.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    In the latest Car & Driver the SRX was rated #2 in the midsize SUV comparison test - for what it is worth :surprise:
    In the discussion all testers said that the SRX would be the one to take on a long trip.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    and sadly engough never did intend on bringing to production

    Nowhere does it say it will not be built. GM is working to build it. Prototypes are being designed. As I said the major issue is the development of batteries and no one can assure that they will be ready in time for the car. GM does intend to bring it to market. You can make all the assumptions you want but it will be forthcoming.

    General Motors Corp. seized the world's attention in January when it unveiled plans to build the Chevrolet Volt - a plug-in hybrid car touted not so much as a mode of transportation but as part of a solution to the nation's energy crisis.

    The Volt grabbed headlines, lit up online chat boards and dominated the buzz at the auto show in Detroit.

    There's just one problem: The Volt may never get built.

    Production depends on advances in battery technology that could be years away. The uncertainty led to intense debate within GM over whether it was wise to show the Volt in Detroit. And now that the world is waiting for GM to deliver what could be the biggest environmental breakthrough so far this century, company officials are actively trying to temper expectations.

    The magnitude of GM's challenge was evident recently when it called journalists to explain the technological hurdles facing the Volt project - and reiterate that it can't guarantee the futuristic car will ever hit the road.

    "The pressure is intense," Nick Zielinski, the Volt's chief engineer, said at the event.

    Still, GM's Volt gamble could pay off big for an automaker trying to transform its behind-the-times image. A vehicle loaded with cutting-edge green technology would position GM as an environmental leader and help it compete against foreign rivals that dominate the growing market for Earth-friendly cars and trucks.

    The Volt isn't GM's first foray into electric cars. In the 1990s, the automaker spent $1 billion on its EV1 electric-car program, which ended when GM demanded the return of its leased vehicles. The decision drew the ire of environmental groups and EV1 drivers and spawned the unflattering "Who Killed the Electric Car?" documentary.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    The batteries already exist, just not at a price that GM is willing to pay.

    They exist but are too large and heavy and expensive at this time. Further development work needs to be done to make them smaller and cheaper.
  • mediapushermediapusher Posts: 305
    If it's not going to be built until 15 to 20 years down the line what is the point about making so much noise about the Chevrolet Volt in January 2007? I don't get it.
    ______________________________________
    reference text:::::

    General Motors Corp. seized the world's attention in January when it unveiled plans to build the Chevrolet Volt - a plug-in hybrid car touted not so much as a mode of transportation but as part of a solution to the nation's energy crisis.

    The Volt grabbed headlines, lit up online chat boards and dominated the buzz at the auto show in Detroit.

    There's just one problem: The Volt may never get built.
  • aldwaldw Posts: 82
    Even the naysayers on the GMblogs say that it would be latecoming, not that it wouldn't be made. The amount of prejudice coming out of your mouth here is enough to make yaks retch, if you don't like GM that's your opinion, but to act as if the auto industry needs to revolve around that is just asnine (and this is coming from someone who was really anti-GM).
  • aldwaldw Posts: 82
    Whatever the case, GM needs to bring Cadillac up as a worldbeater no matter the cost in time or money to do so, as true excellence requires a commitment of effort over long periods to achieve.
  • mediapushermediapusher Posts: 305
    What seems like prejudice is to you, is just a result of what I and many think about GM's scatterbrained performance over the last 3 decades. Prejudice has nothing to do with it. The GMBlogs will say whatever the hell they want to say in order to get gullible ones like you to believe they're actually doing something.

    It may be of some comfort to you that I feel the same way about Volkswagen, Jaguar and a few others. However this is a Cadillac board and Cadillac belongs to GM doesn't it? So I'm not going to talk about the other weird automobile manufacturers.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,727
    In 1957 US share of the global market was 67.5%. Today it is only 17.7%.

    Just remember that in 1957 the entire industrialized world (with the exception of the US and Canada) was still recovering from WWII.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,727
    It's very much a basis in reality.

    Only if your reality is shaped by preconceived notions. Face it there are people that no matter how good Caddy makes cars and how bad someone like BMW makes them they will still say that the BMW is far superior to the Caddy.

    The massive defections from Cadillac that they brought upon themselves and that occurred in the 1980's and 90's, still lingers on today. That's not anti GM bias. That's reality.

    If those defects are no longer in the Cadillacs than it is not a reality, it is a bias.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • mediapushermediapusher Posts: 305
    What is the pertinent need to make Cadillac the standard of the world again, if they ever were. GM is doing great in several other countries. Perhaps they are ok with that?

    If they wanted to be "standard of the world" they would have done it by now.
    _________________________________

    reference text:::::::
    #2380 of 2381 Re: The Standard of the World? [mediapusher] by aldw Mar 29, 2007 (3:01 pm)
    Replying to: mediapusher (Mar 29, 2007 9:46 am)

    Whatever the case, GM needs to bring Cadillac up as a worldbeater no matter the cost in time or money to do so, as true excellence requires a commitment of effort over long periods to achieve.
  • mediapushermediapusher Posts: 305
    OK lets say for instance it isn't reality. It certainly is justified bias. Like I said, once bitten, twice shy. Only a FOOL puts his hand on a hot stove forever with "LOYALTY", and then is surprised that he is burned
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,330
    that wasn't trustworthy in the past.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,168
    ...and the automobile market was also a lot smaller.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Kind of like the Smart car's introduction to America, only in reverse.

    I'd be interested in what you know about the Smart Car's intro to America. From what I know, Roger Penske has been importing them "unofficially". But it's hard to get a bank to finance them because they're not really on the books anywhere here.

    Got any other info?
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,993
    OK lets say for instance it isn't reality. It certainly is justified bias. Like I said, once bitten, twice shy. Only a FOOL puts his hand on a hot stove forever with "LOYALTY", and then is surprised that he is burned

    When I mention the crap I have bought NEW from Toyota & Honda, I get the same old story "That was a long time ago". So I will say the same here. 1980s and 1990s was a long time ago.

    If you can see through the tint in the Escalades, Yukons and Tahoes in So California, you will find it is a very young consumer group. Maybe the cars are still bought by older folks. That makes little difference in the bottom line at Cadillac. The Escalade has been a big part of the return to prominence of the Cadillac name plate.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,727
    Only a FOOL puts his hand on a hot stove forever with "LOYALTY", and then is surprised that he is burned

    And only a fool will continue to believe that the stove will stay hot forever.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,727
    Can I ask how you got this info? How can you import something "unofficially"? Especially in this day and age. Are you saying he is smuggling them in?

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Not really. From what I understand, he is buying 05 Smarts, importing them, and having them distributed by some dealers. Since they still have literally no miles on them, they are considered new, at least in Nevada (Up to 2500 miles), and the dealers are re-selling them. But if you look one up by VIN on Carfax for example, they have a record on it, but no name or info comes up. Just the history of the Vin, and the car being purchased in St. Louis. That's what I meant by unofficially. Penske is not a distributor, Mercedes should be, since they make them. But they are DOT approved cars, not grey markets, I believe.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,877
    You disagree about this. Now that you've made this clear for the umpteenth time today, can we move on with the discussion?

    I've said it before and apparently have to say it again. No matter how many times you repeat your point, and no matter how many different ways you say it, the other guy is not going to suddenly change their views and see things your way.

    There are times when you're going to simply have to accept that some people may see things differently than you do and stop beating this thing into the ground. :sick:

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