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Toyota Sienna Uncontrolled Acceleration

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Comments

  • bertha06bertha06 Posts: 15
    I couldn't agree more, DO NOT BUY TOYOTA!!! I cannot believe how they can keep this problem from being acknowledged. Everybody thinks Toyota has such a great reputation, but they have never experienced what we have. I just wonder how many more people this has happened to that don't report it to anybody, or post a message. Of course if they aren't lucky as we were to survive the incident, then nobody ever is aware of what really happened. I have called NHTSA a few times about my report, and they tell me it takes quite a while before they look at the report and decide whether or not to investigate further. So what good does that do, by then the vehicle is gone, if it was totaled like mine was. What are they going to look at. You would think if they keep getting these reports they would realize there really is a big problem here.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    To be fair - all bets are off after you were hit by a car running a stop sign.

    Such a violent impact can throw all sorts of things off. Hydraulic brake lines can snap and leak out pressure, for instance. Leaky fluids, short circuits, who knows. Your Sienna was not intact.

    I don't think your case is the same as the others here, not by a long shot.
  • bertha06bertha06 Posts: 15
    Hi ateixeira
    I am really wondering what your interest is in all this. Do you work for Toyota? It seems you are always trying to come up with some other reason why these things are not happening, and are not the fault of the vehicle. What's the deal anyway?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, right, they helped pay for my Miata and Forester.

    The poster was blaming Toyota instead of the driver that ran the red light and slammed into his van.

    I mean, seriously.... :confuse:
  • Has anybody besides me been watching and wondering why the Toyota Sienna isn't on the recall list for the acceleration problems that have finally come to the attention of the news media? Obviously has the same problem, yet no SUV's or vans are on the recall list. By the way, my Sienna had floor mats that were hooked to the floor so they didn't move around at all. I definitely think Toyota is still not admitting to what the real problem is. For me it was difinitely not the floor mats that caused the brakes not to work and at the same time, the vehicle accelerated rapidly out of control. I still think it's some kind of computer problem. It was so scary hearing the 911 recording of the highway patrolman's accident when they played it on the news a few weeks ago, because that's just what happened to me. I feel lucky to be alive, and I hope the real problem is found before more people die. I am just so glad they are finally taking the problem seriously and investigating it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The design of the gas pedal is different, that's why. The recall is to cut and re-shape the gas pedal.
  • I was just injured when my 2003 Toyota Sienna had an uncontrolled acceleration into a retaining wall in a parking deck. Any suggestions?
  • The recall may be for the gas pedals, but I don't believe that's the problem. To the person with the 2003 Sienna that wanted to know what to do, yes, definitely report it. If everybody that this happens to reports it, maybe they will reallize that it isn't the gas pedal or the floor mats. That is what I meant when I said why isn't the Sienna on the recall list? I know I reported my accident, but haven't heard a word about it.
  • ateixera---you must have some association with Toyota or you ASSUME way too much. I presume you know what they say about individuals who do so !!!!!!!!

    YOUR comments in regards to being able to brake the vehicle with full throttle is INCORRECT. Toyota Sienna braking system leaves much to be desired, at least on my 04 Sienna, from day one. They have been checked by various Toyota Service Centers.

    I tested MY Toyota when this issue became know, ONCE the vehicle is moving (few miles per hour) and when full throttle is applied, YOU CANNOT STOP/OVERPOWER the vehicle with their weak braking system. I feel this will apply to other vehicles with to-days power requirements.

    I recommend ALL Toyota owner check YOUR vehicle in this manner. PREPARE yourself and other family members. Personality I informed my wife to turn the key off. And yes, I know what this causes, however attempting to find the shift lever and move into neutral under this panic situation would be difficult indeed.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Whoa, relax, and please stop shouting.

    I just shared the link to the Office of Defects Investigation and encouraged them to file a report about the problem.

    If there's a pattern, NHTSA will take action.

    If it's a few isolated incidents, or worse, they go unreported, then they won't. Venting on the internet is pointless.

    Read my previous post again. That's the appropriate action to take.

    I don't even agree with the advice you're giving. What owners should practice is popping the trans in to neutral.
  • ateixeira

    So, are you associated with Toyota in any way?

    I've read many of your comments and you tend to question the posters validity !
    Reminiscent of the typical, Company Line, statements.
  • yatesjoyatesjo Posts: 186
    How in the world is turning the key an easier thing to do in a panic situation than simply bumping the transmission lever up into neutral? That makes no sense whatsoever.

    Push the transmission to neutral and the worst that happens is the engine over revs. Turn the engine off and you lose your power including steering and brakes- making a dangerous situation much, much more so. Coasting on the public highways (in Ca at least) is ILLEGAL as well.

    edit: as a quick experiment I just tried the two motions and found that without taking my eyes away from the windscreen I could take my hand from the steering wheel move the transmission from drive to neutral and have my hand back on the wheel in approximately half a second. I fumbled turning the key without looking down, instinctively would look down and took a second or more on average. By far the easier motion is to move the transmission lever- it is faster, I didn't fumble and didn't feel any need to take my eyes from the road in front of me- crucial differences in an emergency.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Boy, you don't know me at all.

    I'm the founder of the Subaru Crew and the Community Leader for that group right here on Edmunds.com. Go to the RAV4 vs. Forester threads and you'll see I'm one of the harshest critics of that Toyota.

    My daily driver is a Mazda Miata, that's what I drove to work today (and almost every day).

    We have a family/trip car and it's a Sienna, but no, I'm not associated with Toyota in any way, I just happen to think the Sienna is the best minivan available.

    A lot of times these complaints are very unilateral, and there's noone here from Toyota to defend themselves or even state the other side of the story. Have you ever once seen someone admit a mistake, say it was their own fault?

    In the GPS thread a trucker drove under a short bridge and crashed his truck on the overhead pass, and tried to blame the GPS for sending him there.

    As a society we tend to assign blame rather than take responsibility for our mistakes. It's just a pet peeve of mine.

    If for whatever reason the throttle is pinned, the best action to take is to slap the trans in to neutral, which is will do at any speed, at any throttle position. That always works.

    Cheers.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,190
    >lot of times these complaints are very unilateral, and there's no one here from Toyota to defend themselves

    I didn't recall that complaints by posters in Edmunds needed to be balanced by representatives of Toyota Motors USA. Actually there are more than enough people in some discussions of Toyota's problems who connected with the company and stand up too much for the company trying to overwhelm the poor poster who comes in with a valid complaint.

    >Have you ever once seen someone admit a mistake,

    Example is a good question here... aimed at the poster, but I'd like to ask it about one example about Toyota.
    Did Toyota admit a mistake when they blamed the customer for years about their sludge problem only to eventually give in and pay for some of the engines that were left? Recall how many people and reps of the company were blaming the end users for the sludge problem, including those with more than the required number of oil changes. Meanwhile Toyota had made some changes to the breathing of the crankcase and oil drains on the engine.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    There was one Toyota rep that I recall, we debated the whole sludge issue, in fact. I took a middle-of-the-road position - if people could not come up with a single receipt for an oil change for a year, Toyota should not pay for their neglect.

    In most cases people could indeed come up with receipts, and those should have been covered from the get-go, absolutely.

    I haven't noticed any reps in the Sienna threads, but I don't follow the busy "Haterade for Toyota" threads, of which there are many.

    I wasn't aware of any engine changes - in fact the 3MZ engine ended up being replaced by the 1MZ and later the 2GR, not updated. Maybe you're talking about the 4 bangers?

    Even so, what worked was filing complaints to NHTSA, which showed a pattern of sludged engines, and forced Toyota to find a fix.

    See my link above to the ODI. That's what concerned owners and people who experience a problem should do - file an official complaint.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Then you'll see what I mean about Toyota Haterade:

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f1e3b64/1166#MSG1166

    Here's my response clearing up the lies mentioned in xlu's post:

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f1e3b64/1175#MSG1175
  • vatesjo

    What ever works for you!!

    My wife felt more secure reaching for the key than attempting to shift the lever. She knows how it will effect the steering and brakes, because we performed that maneuver. We are elderly and her reaction is not what it was years back. Myself I would probably shift into neutral, I tend to keep my hand on the shifter anyways.

    IMO I feel, this problem, as posters stated occurred because of uncontrolled/stuck throttle. Could there be other variables, sure, but not in every case. Select individuals are adamant as to what happen, and I for one believe them.

    Matter of fact, in our area, a elderly woman struck and unfortunately injured one girl and killed her sister in parking lot. The State Investigator discovered her vehicle had a malfunctioning throttle wire. No, it wasn't a Toyota.

    Many have stated the brakes will override the full throttle applications, they won't on mine, nor on other vehicles I've driven. Especially if the vehicle has gained forward momentum and the engine is moving into its power range.

    I just hope it never happens, in the heat of sudden emergency, who knows how one may react.
  • Well, guess we can put this thread to rest, now that Toyota has finally admitted a serious problem.

    Odd, I didn't see where the Sienna was included, would think this will just be a matter of time before they add this vehicle based on the individuals who have this problem.

    Wonder if they plan on giving out free floor mats.
  • tsu670tsu670 Posts: 293
    Not sure, but I believe the scale of this action in unprecedented in automotive history.

    Toyota Temporarily Suspends Sales of Selected Vehicles
  • Now let's see if LEXUS ever admits to their cars' malfunction causing sudden uncontrolled acceleration! Personally, I've been patiently waiting after three years. Why does it take a well-publicized tragedy in California to get these unsympathetic car companies to finally admit to serious and even fatal flaws in their design. How many tragedies could have been avoided if they had just "fessed up" years ago when the reports first appeared on sites such as this, subsequent filings with the designated governmental agencies, and pleas to the car companies themselves!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I'll share it again, if people want the Sienna to be included in this campaign, the occurences have to be documented, to demonstrate a pattern of problems.

    Report your issues here:

    http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm

    Complaining about it on the internet might help you vent and feel better, but the fact that Toyota has not included the Sienna means one of two things:

    * there isn't actually such a pattern

    - or -

    * there is a pattern, but it has not been reported/documented properly

    Please click the link if you've been affected.
  • Karen_CMKaren_CM Posts: 5,014
    If you are a Toyota owner and interested in sharing your reaction with reporters, send me an email stating the vehicle you own, your telephone number, and the best time you can be reached.

    Send to: karenedmunds.com

    Community Manager If you have any questions or concerns about the Forums, send me an email, karen@edmunds.com, or click on my screen name to send a personal message.

  • tsu670tsu670 Posts: 293
    Taking it a step further, here is how you can view some of the complaints that are already out there:

    http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/
    then select "Recalls, Defects and Complaints" from the menu on the left
    then select "Search Complaints" near the top of the menu on the left
    On the right side of the next screen, click "Search Selected Type" under where the word "Vehicle" is checked
    Try selecting "2005" in the "Select Year" pull down menu and click "Submit Year"
    Select "Toyota" from the "Select Make" pull down menu and click "Submit Make"
    Select "Sienna" from the "Select Model" pull down menu and click "Submit Model"
    Pick "Vehicle Speed Control" from the "Select Component" menu and click "Retrieve Complaints"

    Click the "Get Summary" link next to each complaint for details. Interesting stuff.

    This is just for 2005. There are similar complaints afterwards for 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009. There are also complaints for 2004, but I got tired of reading them all, so stopped looking at earlier model years.
  • tsu670tsu670 Posts: 293
    After dinner I decided to go back into the NHTSA website to look for complaints of other Toyotas that were not on their recall list released yesterday. When you click "Select a Model" under Toyota, the first one that pops up is the 4Runner, so I picked that one. Sure enough, there are instances of unintended acceleration reported. I looked at 2006 through 2008 model years. I hate to say it, but this problem might be even bigger than what has already been reported.

    By the way, the 4Runner is 100% built (parts and labor) in Japan.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I don't think where it's made had any influence. I believe the Prius is made in Japan and Highalnder is made in the USA, and both were affected.
  • dbtdbt Posts: 298
    Current recall affects CTS pedals, used in US/Canada manufactured Toyota models (except Lexus RX and possibly Sienna). Not affected are Denso pedals used by Japanese manufactured Toyotas/Lexus/Scion and definitely Canadian-made RX.
  • tsu670tsu670 Posts: 293
    After doing more research on this issue (Google "Toyota sudden acceleration pedal"), I'm growing more and more convinced that the problem is NOT the rubber accelerator pedal itself as Toyota would lead us to believe. In other words, it isn't a mechanical problem of the pedal getting caught under floor mats or sticking on the carpet, and it isn't that the pedal is slow to return to idle. Grinding down the shape of the pedal or changing spring tension is not the answer.

    Instead, it appears the problem is with the electronics of Toyota's "Throttle-By-Wire" system they started incorporating in their vehicles over the past few years. I'm thinking it's the sensors used to tell the computer when to open or close the throttle.

    I continue to hear on our local news how Toyota dealers describe the problem as "sticking" gas pedals, but the stories I read are about sudden acceleration, not sticking pedals. The vehicles just start bolting out on their own, resulting too often in horrifying accounts of drivers trying to avoid traffic, pedestrians, parked cars, trees...

    Toyota is supposed to announce their findings in the upcoming week. It will be interesting to see if they stick to their mechanical "pedal" explanation, or admit it is a system-wide electronics issue with their "Throttle-By-Wire" system.

    For sure, they will need to add the feature that turns off the throttle when the brake is applied, but they should add it to ALL of their vehicles with TBW, not just the 8 models on last week's recall.

    edit: I just did another Google search to see if there was any news. The following article from the L.A. Times popped up about 40 minutes ago:

    Doubt cast on Toyota's decision to blame... gas pedal
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Toyota is fast losing its reputation as company which promotes reliability and safety. With the Friday’s announcement, the total recall of cars now stands at 9.5 million, 4.1 million for gas pedal problem and 5.4 million for floor mat problems. The number of cars recalled is more than what the company has sold last year (7.8 million vehicles were sold world-wide last year) which means the company’s expenditure will go up for carrying out the repairs.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Recalls are not necessarily a bad thing.
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