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Toyota Sienna Uncontrolled Acceleration

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  • hogan773hogan773 Posts: 255
    You know, the more I read these first-hand accounts, the more skeptical I become about this Toyota fix. Seems to be lots of slow moving lurches, in parking lots, garages, etc. I don't understand how if you are driving forward slowly that a STUCK PEDAL all of the sudden results in a super acceleration forward. I mean, you were likely not even on the gas as you were turning into the space? Or did you apply some gas, and then when you let off the pedal you were surprised when the car continued moving forward (with a stuck pedal) rather than decelerating like it should without gas?

    Sounds like electronic throttle issues could be at play and that's something that Toyota is keeping mum about it seems.
  • flxmomflxmom Posts: 24
    A local guy had an incident in his Toyota truck on the expressway last nite, it acclerated and the dashboard also went dark he ended up driving off the road and crashed, the air bag didnt even go off and he was going fast, he walked away unharmed but his truck is totalled...This was in Rochester NY
  • tsu670tsu670 Posts: 293
    Those of you who have vehicles on the recall list:

    Would you please get back to us as to what was actually done? I've read numerous accounts where Toyota is installing a brake override of the electronic throttle control system (ETCS) on all of its new vehicles at the various factories, and on vehicles that were part of the floor mat recall. Not sure about the sticking pedal recall.

    Whichever recall your vehicle is in, would you please check to see if you got the brake override fix? Thanks!!
  • flxmomflxmom Posts: 24
    Just got this off the other thread about Toyotas recalls...

    Wow, what a shocker...get ready for this whole thing to snowball...

    Everyone - this is not good for Toyota. These below News Releases just hit now. I was listening to CNN - and they flashed across the screen.

    Government Safety Agency Secretary Mr. LaHood publicly did interview with AP & claims Toyota stalled doing anything. US government had to fly to Japan to make them do recall. LaHood claims NHTSA doing investigation regarding electronics. CNN had statement from LaHood DHTSA is not done with Toyota. LaHood claims this is huge safety issue!!!

    During interview - once again claims made auto accident San Diego off duty CHP officer and family with 911 tapes seemed to lead to final actions. I have again enclosed You Tube TV news report of accident at time of accident.
  • flxmomflxmom Posts: 24
    Yes I agree, this is very fishy and its going to come out very soon ! And Toyota is going to have to fix millions of cars and pay millions of dollars to people !
  • I have 2004 sienna le awd and have had sudden acceleration on 3 or 4 occasions but here is where it differs the car was on cruise control at 110km or there about.I hit the brakes and it did work.I also had it happen once while I was exiting a car wash the van just accelerated again I hit the brake and it stopped...I do beleive they installed the brake overide during a regular service visit I do recollect reading that some "campaign performed" with some number on it and the dealer told me just some standard recall that had been performed.My worry is the Sienna is not on the recall list...any ideas
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    There's much more, some new headlines from Automotive News:

    Toyota ordered by Japan to address Prius brake complaints

    ordered by Japan's Ministry of Transportation to investigate a rash of consumer complaints about braking problems

    Feds look at Toyota electronics as source of acceleration defects

    The U.S. Department of Transportation is looking into whether Toyota Motor Corp.'s problems with unintended acceleration can be traced to defects in the electronic controls rather than just the mechanical problems cited by the automaker

    I said this more than a year ago, but anyone who has experienced a problem needs to report it to the NHTSA Office of Defects Investigation, here's a link once again:

    http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm

    This is the only way a complaints will ever be addressed.

    I bet they add other models soon.
  • C'mon Japan and my native USA.....time to investigate Lexus also! By now, you should realize that it's not just a Toyota problem, and please don't insult our intelligence by citing floormats as the scapegoat source. Delve deeper into the electronics! Personally, I've done all I can to publicize the truth with letters to the dealer, manufacturer, press, insurance company and filing a report with NHTSA. My happiest day will be when the truth is publicly released, and I'm exonerated!
  • "I mean, you were likely not even on the gas as you were turning into the space? Or did you apply some gas, and then when you let off the pedal you were surprised when the car continued moving forward (with a stuck pedal) rather than decelerating like it should without gas? "

    I had pressed the brake to slow down, and then pressed lightly on the gas pedal in order to steer into my parking spot. Instead of accelerating slowly, the car responded as if I had pressed the accelerator all the way to the floor. I didn't even have time to react in order to press on the brake...the concrete wall stopped the car before I even had a chance. I am so grateful my children weren't in the car with me and that there weren't any other cars or, heaven forbid, pedestrians, involved.

    I have loved my Sienna. I hope Toyota can figure out what the real problem is and fix it so I can continue to love my car!
  • Those of us this has happened to know it's not the floor mats or the accelerator pedal sticking. I was driving in town, less than 25 mpg. How could a sticking accelerator pedal cause the van to accelerate suddenly when I was applying the brake and wasn't pushing that hard on the accelerator to begin with? I did report to NHTSA shortly after my accident, thanks to this message board, but how many has this happened to that didn't know to report to them? I wouldn't have had any idea if I hadn't come across this site. Also, when I picked up a copy of the police report a week later, I was shocked to see that he had stated that I was asleep, that I passed out due to a medical condition, both total fabrications. He didn't even ask me what happened. The EMT did, and her report was correct, but if the NHTSA goes off the police report when (and if) they investigate, then what? The van is gone, totaled, so they can't look at it. So very frustrating. I went to every source I could think of, the police chief, sent Emails to all the city council, mayor, city manager, talked to a couple of attorneys, and could not get the police report amended. So, I'm with you, I definitely would love to be able to call the police chief and ask him what he thinks now. I'm sure the Sienna will be on the list, I don't know why it isn't already.
    Also, why isn't anybody talking about the fact that many of these vehicles are equipped with an Event Data Recorder? When I mentioned this to Toyota (I reported to them too, right away) they came out and looked at the vehicle, but would not access the information on the Even Data Recorder, which should have told what happened, as far as pushing the brake pedal, the acceleration, how fast the vehicle was going when it hit the concrete wall, etc. Either they did and kept it to themselves, or didn't want to know. My theory is, they have known for a long time and it's been one big coverup by Toyota. I will be so happy when the real truth finally comes out, and like you said, we are finally exonerated.
  • We have so much problems with this 2004 van, I consider it is a lemon....
    List of problem
    1) Gas lick (flooded) after replacing the fuel tank.. took them 2 weeks to fix.

    2) Driver side front door has popping sound - welding problem- initially they refuse to fix until the recall got in.

    3) Driver side sit belt not easily release - wants $300 to fix .. Safety issue? Not fix yet because it passed the warranty. This is the first time a seat belt fail me in my 30 years of driving.

    4) Steering wheel arm cushion( a piece of washer type rubber) broke - bad for driving and alignment- cost $700.00 (passed warranty)
    When I took it to the dealer, the service manager said it is impossible for a 2004. However, their mechanic verified that there is a problem of it. Initially, i thought it is the brake that has the problem, because it make the squeaking noise when you step on the break. It cost 700 to fix because they have to replace both arm. I believe they designed this van to suck your money dry during repair.

    5) Passenger automatic door broke - require 800+ to fix claiming motor problem and has to replace the entire assembly ( you can not replace individual part, another money sucker). I took it to a independent auto shop , fix it for $200.00 (replacing the piece of metal that hold the door, not the motor assembly). The cushion( another piece of rubber/metal) of the arm that hold the door worn off and therefore the door is scratching the side of the car.

    6) the most current one... I do not know whether it is related to rain or not.
    it happen 2 times last week ( heavy rain), It is very hard to turn my steering wheel when I am in drive mode, have to restart the car to solve this problem. My wife experience the same problem.

    7) And i was told by my mechanic that the rear brake was designed with a housing that the brake dust can not escape to the ground and therefore accumulate in the housing. Eventually, the rear brake will produce squeaking noise. I just hope it will not effect the braking function otherwise it is a time bomb again.

    And also my mechanic show me a list (20-30 items including recalls) from Toyota to dealers/auto shops about some problems that might occurs to the van and advice the mechanic how to fix it. He has to log into the internet/modem to get the info. He only show me 1 of the items that he think it might be related to my steering. And on that item it clearing stated that repair only within the 30000/ 3 years warranty and if and only if the customer complaint about it . Because i did not receive any advice from Toyota at all. Basically, they do not want the drivers to know and let the warranty expire. The advice was sent during 2004. Is there any mechanic know what I am talking about and post the list of items so that we all aware of the potential problem / problems.

    :mad:

    We should all report our complaint to the NHTSA.

    Here is the link

    http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    how many has this happened to that didn't know to report to them?

    I think now that the story is headline news people will report events that happened even in the past. We should remind people to do that, too.

    The Prius will be next, but we may see all throttle-by-wire models recalled eventually.
  • ---------------- :mad: --
    My 2000 Sienna goes crazy accelerating in CRUISE CONTROL like on Steve Wozniak's Prius.....
    ----
    I did not want to make an issue as rarely use it and knew Toyota would deny it.

    ---------- :lemon: ------
  • :surprise: Oh My God!!!big>

    Since the late Toyota recall myself and my wife have been look into a Sienna crash that happen to her in 10-08, about two months ago I did place a claim with NHTSA.

    The crash was so horrific my wife; driving our ’02 Sienna does not recall traveling into an intersection and causing the accident.

    I don’t care to elaborate but due to the other vehicle’s structural condition, the other driver was close to death for weeks after the crash.
    Since Toyota did not recall our particular brand we did not know what to do with ourselves,
    The horrific site and predicament we were in after the accident took a huge toll on our family,
    And needless to say the other driver and family.

    Tonight I did Google the issue and found this form,
    For some time after reading others comments I could not catch my breath!!
    What can we do beyond NHTSA?????

    In our case this was the worst day of our lives, and almost the last day of another life!!!
  • yatesjoyatesjo Posts: 186
    Not to minimize the dangers of uncontrolled acceleration or the tragedies that have occurred as a result, there seems to be a bit of hysteria going here. While Toyota is recalling many millions of vehicles, the pedal supplier says there are less than a dozen incidents associated with their part. This may not be all incidents nor may it be the only cause, but in the absence of hard numbers about how many cases there are is it possible we are getting carried away?

    The media are fanning the flames. As always "if it bleeds, it leads." They smell blood in the water: a big name target and ratings. They will milk this for all the attention they can- Edmunds included- because that is how they make money. That means there are a lot of words, a few sob stories and not many facts beyond the number of cars, makes, and years recalled.

    Now we are also seeing a lot of new posters with sob stories about their Toyotas. "OMG my Toyota crashed and it was the worst day of our lives" or being spammed with grammatically poor laundry lists of problems copy and pasted to every thread. Not to assail everyone because some have been on this thread talking about problems prior to Toyota acceleration becoming the latest meme, but some folks look like they are just trying to pile on for whatever perverse thrill it gives them to say "me too."

    Lets not forget, too, that the same government that is responsible for playing watchdog on car makers also is heavily invested, financially and politically, into two major competitors. Toyota is the biggest car maker in the world and has muscled one of those companies out of the top spot. If that doesn't represent a conflict of interest, I don't know what does. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some Chicago style politics being played in the background to squeeze Toyota and put others on notice.

    As time permits, I plan to dig through NHSTA complaints and try to put some real numbers on speed control complaints- something a real journalist would do it such a thing still existed. Like all government databases, it seems to be structured to be as user un-friendly as possible, but I've already looked through some complaints and recognize a couple as being posted in this very forum. I'll post the results here as possible.
  • victor23victor23 Posts: 201
    So far, I never posted unless I had something useful to say, however, today I write this only to show you my full support because I anticipate a flurry of public outrage in response to your post. That is exactly what I discussed this morning with my family, and the analysis you are embarking on is just what I tried to do myself last night (but gave up for the very reasons you mention, poor organization of the database and lack of time on my part). Thank you, and keep up! Everybody, let's keep our composure and common sense. Also, as another poster (ateixeira?) already mentioned, let's try not to blame our own faults/bad luck on the vehicle/government/else, which is rapidly becoming a part of our culture.
  • yatesjo,

    my thoughts exactly...my girlfriend and i were just talking about this earlier today.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Yes, that was me.

    Here's what I suggest...

    * Let's keep this conversation constructive, please
    * If you experience throttle failure report to NHTSA's ODI first
    * Then also report it here, with details, including year/model/etc
    * Please try to keep emotions to a minimum, the sky is not falling
    * No cross-posting, it's against Edmunds rules and wastes time (we read it twice)

    We are all concerned, this is a vehicle for carrying around children after all. But I think if we stick to those guidelines it will be better for everyone.

    I agree with yatesjo that Toyota is in the line of fire right now and there are people that will take advantage of that and blame them for incidents where there was driver error, but perhaps this is karma at work - Toyota has twice pointed to scape goats for the problem (carpets and throttle pedals) when it may turn out to be an issue with the electronics. Sucks being them right now.

    FWIW, my mom's Honda Fit has windows that don't open and Honda just recalled 600,000+ vehicles for that. She still loves it. My 98 Subaru Forester was recalled for possible brake master cylinder failure. It was still the most reliable car I've ever owned.

    Eventually we'll get to the bottom of this, and right now enough attention is on the issue that we can be certain that if there is a pattern of problems it *will* get addressed.

    In the meantime, relax and enjoy your Siennas. I still love mine. I'd buy a 2011 today if it were stolen or totalled.
  • In response to messages 137 through 140, all I can say is, I'll bet this never happened to you. To insinuate the media, the governent, etc, are all picking on Toyota somehow because they are such a big company is ridiculous. The NHSTA is supposed to be there to look out for the consumer's safety. Believe me, if this had happened to you, I don't think you would want to buy another Toyota product. It's quite a bit different than a faulty window. I have been waiting since my accident in April for the truth to come out, and I am still waiting, because I don't believe it's the floor mats or the gas pedal that is the problem. Unlike the "Sienna Crash" post, I do remember very well exactly what happened during my accident. I agree that to think that every Toyota crash is due to this same problem is not right, but to say the government is doing this because they have an interest in two competitors is equally ridiculous.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,179
    >I agree with yatesjo that Toyota is in the line of fire right now and there are people that will take advantage of that and blame them for incidents where there was driver error, but perhaps this is karma at work - Toyota has twice pointed to scape goats for the problem (carpets and throttle pedals) when it may turn out to be an issue with the electronics. Sucks being them right now.

    Toyota has brought this upon themselves. They expected to continue their minimal repair to already produced and sold vehicles and just to make changes as necessary on the production line without recalling earlier, affected vehicles. For example the panel that could fall onto the pedal area in Siennas weren't going to be recalled for repair, even though it was a safety hazard.

    They affected the NHSTA's handling of the reports of acceleration by limiting the cases considered to only 1 second or LESS in endurance. Does that make sense? No. But they had Santucci, who used to be employed at NHSTA, to effect that limitation with past coworkers at NHSTA apparently. Think how many lives have been at risk since that was done. IF proper listing of events of acceleration were done, the government would have been checking sooner.
    This should make you mad.

    Toyota has continued with somewhat a disdain for safety for US customers of their cars. They would do recalls and fixes only when absolutely caught on their own pitard. Look at how they handled the sludge problems. Same as the acceleration. The tech writers at dealerships had never heard of it when customers complained. Or it was something customer did, "They must have had their foot on the gas instead of the brake."

    Even now after two red herrings for the most severe of the runaway accelerations, the electronic or computer component still isn't being tauted from toyota's end. Instead they have latched onto getting good publicity for their Cinderella Prius and are hoping the media and attention to that can be used to up the public image of toyota's handling of the acceleration. So they might recall and fix the 2010 cars already sold they think by doing the fix applied to later production on the assembly line already.

    I'm not sure what other car's problems and fixes have to do with toyota's other than trying to again distract. Are the other companies fixing those?

    Toyota needs to quit stalling and start respecting the US customers and finding out what happened in their electronics. At least Toyoda didn't wear a gauze mask this time when he came out to face the unwashed media.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Toyota has brought this upon themselves

    Perhaps, karma as I mentioned, but it's extremely difficult to find software bugs that could be causing the problem. Not to mention it's rare and intermittent. Hence the importance of documenting each case to help determine some type of pattern.

    Think about it - more than 99% of the cars in the recall have never showed the symptom. Why? Why is the problem so rare?

    Toyota is a for-profit corporation so greed is to be expected, but I'm not sure they knew exactly what the problem was (even now, still).

    The other problems I mentioned are not intended to distract, but rather to show that automakers do make mistakes and it takes time to figure out a fix and implement it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Again, not to distract, but to demonstrate how some problems are very widespread and develop an easy-to-identify pattern of failures:

    http://www.gmproblems.com/brakes.htm

    Excerpt:

    •And a whopping 51% of Oldsmobile Alero owners reported problems with their brakes or rotors

    That's more than HALF. Imagine having 6 million Toyotas, and 3+ million brake problems. To give us an idea of the scale of that problem.

    That's easier to find.
  • bertha06

    Agree with your statement, individuals on many forums attempt to discredit poster problems/incidents. But when it happens to them, whoa, tears begin to flow.

    I do have a question, do you recall if you had cruise control engaged at that time.
    Anyone else with this issue, feel free to answer, also.

    Along with so many other issues I have had and or Toyota has, I find my cruise control to be very fin-key.
    In certain conditions my cruise control will accelerate aggressively (passing gear) and exceed the set limit by a considerable amount. Makes it a little scarey when traveling closely behind someone.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,179
    >Excerpt: •And a whopping 51% of Oldsmobile Alero owners reported problems with their brakes or rotors

    First we look to the statistics used to gather the data. And your link was to a site attempting to garner customers for a class action suit, isn't it?

    The data is based on visitors to an online website and their "customers." It was not a JD Powers type survey to indicate there were that many people with problems with Alero brakes. It also doesn't differentiate between brake failure or early wear, at least in the owner's opinion. It doesn't indicate a difference between brakes failing and cars crashing over cliffs or people having to replace original pads early.

    Odd too, Alero hasn't been built since 2004.

    If early wear is a problem, lots of Honda brakes are in trouble based on reading some of their threads here.

    "The Autoweb Reliability Ratings are collected from visitors and past customers of
    Autobytel Inc’s websites (Autobytel.com, Autoweb.com and CarSmart.com) via online survey conducted by an independent third party. Reliability and Satisfaction "
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Isn't that (a little bit) like the pot calling the kettle black?

    Here we are, in a thread about complaints, where a few who have been affected congregate.

    You read this thread and might think the issue is common, but we're discussing a few complaints out of a few million cars.

    Even here, among this sample, you won't find anywhere near 51% affected.

    First we look to the statistics used to gather the data

    If we did that, the best source might be Consumer Reports, and what van will you find is the #1 most reliable minivan?

    The Sienna.

    See what I mean? The problem is very rare. The sky is not falling.
  • Guess what? I did all the research before I bought my Sienna, and one reason I bought the Sienna was based on Consumer Report, but I will never rely on that information again. I thought I was getting a safe vehicle, and I'm lucky I'm still alive after crashing head on into a concrete wall because of the acceleration problem.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,179
    >reason I bought the Sienna was based on Consumer Report, but I will never rely on that information again. I thought I was getting a safe vehicle, and I'm lucky I'm still alive after crashing head on into a concrete wall

    Here's a good article about what's wrong with Consumer Reports. It had built up a cult following but its methods are flawed and biased.

    Analysis of Consumer Reports flaws
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Didn't they recommend against buying potentially affected cars until this is sorted out?

    Whatever honeymonn CR may have had with Toyota is clearly over.

    Prius brakes are being recalled in Japan, so it's a matter of time before the same happens here. NHTSA is also looking in to Corolla steering issues.

    When it rains, it pours.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    That's a Chrysler enthusiast site, and aren't they the lowest rated among the 3 domestic brands? They do have an axe to grind (and actually try to hide that by comparing to one of the least reliable import brands - intentionally misleading).

    Allpar writes:

    could just be a dent in the adveritisng budget

    That's wrong because CR doesn't accept advertisements.

    People who buy different car models may also maintain them differently.

    Speculative at best.

    I've heard the opposite - that people who buy reliable cars think they will last forever so they don't bother maintaining them.

    They are just throwing mud and hoping something sticks. They make a few valid points and mix them up with obvious myths (advertisements in CR? Have they ever actually seen an issue before?).

    That web site is weak sauce, sorry.
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