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General Questions about Leasing Vehicles

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  • Hi, I just have a quick question and to see if anyone has a good way to solve this legal issue.

    I went into a dealership and leased a g37 coupe, the deal was for 12k, but the lease contract said it's for 10k only, but i didn't look at it ( i know, it's my fault) until i got the payment in mail and it stated that the lease was for 10k not 12k. So i called back and talked to the sale person and he was nice enough and said 12k was the deal in his notes and that the financial guy screwed up but unfortunately there is nothing he can do. He said he will put a note in the system stating that our car is actually 12k instead of 10k so when we return the car in 3 years, we won't have to pay for the extra 6k we drive. He couldn't give me that in paper though, and he said he couldn't redo the lease

    my question is, is there a way that i can get something like this in writing or have they re do the lease?

    i know it's my fault not reading it clearly when signing contract, but i thought the finance guy needs to go over everything on the lease when we sign it, and obviously we would catch this mistake if he actually go over one by one

    any suggestion?
    thank you
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,664
    go up the chain of command. No way i'd settle for a note made in your file by the salesperson. He has no authority and most likely wouldn't even be working there by the end of your lease.

    '13 Stang GT; '15 Fit; '98 Volvo S70; '14 Town&Country

  • fezofezo Posts: 9,438
    What q said. That gent is blowing smoke. If you can get something in writing you'll be OK. Could well be a classic case of buyer beware. One of many reasons I never lease but not leasing isn't for some people just as leasing is never even an option for me.
  • cessna10cessna10 Posts: 4
    lease agreement says "You are responsible for all damage to the vehicle and for its loss, seizure or theft. you must tell us immediately if any of these events hapen, and cooperate with your insurance company"

    accident has a total cost of $960.00, I am having it repaired at the dealer where I purchased the vehicle- same toyota dealer,

    Wise, unwise, or unnecessary to report it to the toyota leasing company?
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    I would report anything that would not fall into the "typical wear and tear" bucket. $960 would be above that threshold.
  • moogmoomoogmoo Posts: 2
    Please advise on the best option to get out of a lease premature....I am only 4 months into a 36 months lease and have changed my mind. Is it better to:
    1. deal with my current financial institution to get out of the lease
    2. get new dealer to buy me out of the lease
    3. use one of the lease swap or carmax service
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,664
    Absolutely swapping it if you are allowed would be the least painful option. And, really, the only even partly reasonable. The other 2 choices would cost you a small fortune.

    '13 Stang GT; '15 Fit; '98 Volvo S70; '14 Town&Country

  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    Agree that finding someone to assume your lease will be the best on your pocket assuming the lease is economically reasonable. A lot will depend on what you have and the payment vs what someone could walk on the lot and get one. Most that look for lease assumptions (like myself) are looking for a bargain. There's really not many other reasons to do that type of deal.
  • ksrpksrp Posts: 11
    I am considering a lease and would like to know any tips and suggestions to lower the price before getting into the down payments and monthly payment negotiation. Should I start by saying that I want to purchase the vehicle and get a lower sale price first and then change to a lease after the sale price is agreed upon?
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,033
    Every part of a lease is negotiable.

    IMHO, go in trying to get a price you are comfortable with and then bring up the lease. Then negotiate the residual (can be difficult) and the rate.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    As robr2 mentioned, the purchased price (cap cost) is the most negotiable piece of any lease simply because that's the part the dealer fully controls. Residual and rates CAN be negotiated but it's usually more difficult and might require getting the leasing company involved. I lease heavy equipment all the time for my biz and I've changed almost every word in some of these contracts. But overall it's much easier to lease multi-million dollar equipment than a vehicle. The dealers/leasing companies go to great lengths to make it as difficult as possible to understand where all the money is landing. So if you really don't understand all these number and what's going on...be very careful.

    Now for my obligatory soapbox speech...don't take it personal:

    If the only reason you're leasing is for a low payment and you don't have the financial means to get out of the lease early, I advise people to stay away. My rule is...if you can't pay cash for the vehicle, you shouldn't be leasing it. That's a pretty broad rule but it gets the point across. If you have very little cash at your disposal and just trying to get a nicer car than you can afford, a lease will just decrease your overall financial position in the long run. Buy a car you can afford and drive it for a long time.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,664
    There is no need to play games. Know all of your numbers before going in and just state what you want. "I'd like to lease this vehicle and have a net cap cost of $xxxx. I know the XX Financial MF is .00xxx, and the residual is xx%. So my payments should be $xxx with $xx out of pocket."

    '13 Stang GT; '15 Fit; '98 Volvo S70; '14 Town&Country

  • ksrpksrp Posts: 11
    > If the only reason you're leasing is for a low payment

    Not true

    > and you don't have the financial means to get out of the lease early

    Not true

    > Buy a car you can afford and drive it for a long time

    Good advice, provided I am looking for a long term solution, which I am not.

    I am considering a lease because I am looking to provide a vehicle to a family member for a 2-3 year duration only.

    In any case, thanks for the response sebring95
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    No response necessary for the obligatory blather. Like I said, don't take it personal. Let us know how the negotiations go. Leases aren't nearly as attractive as they once were. Too many banks/captive fiance companies took a beating on leases when resale values fell through the floor so they don't take on as much risk these days with high residuals.
  • dhammerdhammer Posts: 13
    We leased a vehicle a week ago. Today we received a call from the dealership asking if we could come back in and sign a new lease, they made a mistake and had us sign the wrong lease. My question is...if we are not all that crazy about the vehicle, can we return the car in lieu of signing the new lease agreement?
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    I guess I'd want to know exactly what is meant by "wrong lease" but you accepted the car so you're going to get stuck with something. "not all that crazy about the vehicle" doesn't give you a right to back out of the deal. You might be able to negotiate something different if you ask nicely.
  • dhammerdhammer Posts: 13
    Thanks for the quick response...my husband took the call and didn't ask any questions. I'm curious myself to find out what was meant by "wrong lease". I looked over the one we have and it looks okay. We're heading over soon, so we'll see.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,040
    Buyer's remorse? Why do you want to return the vehicle?

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • mpl82mpl82 Posts: 9
    I know that most experts say not to negotiate montly lease price but why should I care what the other factors of the deal are if I'm planning to give the car back (and not purchase) at end of lease.
  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    Think of it this way...

    You would never buy a car based on payments only as that would be very foolish. The same holds true for a lease. Every leased car is a sold car. When you lease, you are actually buying that car on behalf of the fund provider or lessor. However, you're responsible for the payments and so it's in your best interest to negotiate selling price; not payment. The lease payment is dependent upon the selling price. The higher the sell price, the higher your lease payment. As such, you should know how to calculate the lease payment as welll as how to determine the gross cap, adjusted cap, and residual value. Remember the following...

    Gross Cap = Selling Price + Amounts Financed (capitalized) in the lease
    Adj. Cap = Gross Cap - Cap Reduction

    Payment = MF x (AC + RV) + (AC - RV)/N

    MF = Money Factor
    AC = Adjusted Cap
    RV = Residual Value = Residual Factor x MSRP
    N = Term

    As you can see, the sell price is a necessary ingredient in determining payment. When negotiating a lease, always ask for a quote. The best way to obtain a quote is to check the dealers inventory and select the vehicle you want (assuming it's in stock). Next, relay this information to the dealer and request a quote in the form of a Lease Worksheet which should include all of the following information...

    MSRP
    Selling Price (i.e., Agreed Upon Value)
    Acq Fee
    Documentation Fee
    All government fees including license/reg/title fees
    Sales Tax and Sales Tax ate
    Customer Rebates
    Money Factor (buy rate preferred)
    Residual Factor & Annual Mileage Allowance
    Residual Value
    Lease Term
    Payment

    Now you have all the necessary data to craft your own one-page lease proposal. If you think the seling price is too high, you can change it and re-compute the lease payment. Two of the most costly mistakes people make when negotiating a lease are...

    1. Negotiating payments instead of selling price
    2. Allowing the dealer to control the deal

    Hope this helps.

    John
    The AutoLeaeGeek
  • mpl82mpl82 Posts: 9
    thanks John - I appreciate your response but it didn't address the core of what I'm asking which is: if i'm giving the car back to the leasing company in a few years...why should I care about anything BUT monthly price...as long as i perceive it to be a low monthly payment...what else matters.

    Purchasing a car I can see as being different because the total financing has to be in my favor...but, again with leasing, I'm having trouble seeing beyond mohthly payments.
  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    edited October 2012
    How do you know if you're getting the lowest monthly payment possible? How do you know if the payment reflects a fabulous deal or just a very mediocre deal? Calling five different dealers and selecting the dealer with the lowest payment and, then, hammering that dealer until they drop the payment by $5 or so does not, in any way, guarantee that you've gotten a good deal let alone an outstanding deal. I've seen cases where people thought they got a great lease deal only to discover that the sell price was very closed to MSRP when it could have been gotten for many thousands of dollars less. Those that are payment buyers are at risk for getting very bad deals. Dealers LOVE payment shoppers. It's like bringing a canary to the cat. The only way to guage whether or not you're getting a good deal is to look at the selling price which, in turn, drives the lease payment. It is the metric by which deals are judged.

    The point is that what you perceive to be a low monthly payment may not even remotely mirror a good deal. Perceptions can be very misleading. Consequently, a lot of money is left on the dealer's table.

    John
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    Couple other points...even if you're happy with the payment. An inflated residual could haunt you if for some unknown reason you need to exit the lease early (or total the vehicle without GAP). Also, early payoff fees, end-of-lease fees, termination fees, mileage fees, options to trade/sell/return at the taie...all things that should still be considered even if the payment is right where you want it.
  • Absolutely agree! Higher residuals trigger higher lease balances which, in turn, inflate early termination charges IF one must terminate early.

    There are several factors that must be considered in addition to those described not the least of which is the money factor. Inflated money factors mean higher payments. Those with excellent credit should always insist on the buy rate when negotiating a lease.
  • mpl82mpl82 Posts: 9
    Hi John - appreciate the feedback. I do think that's the strongest argument in favor of looking at all of the numbers when leasing - it's the only way to truly KNOW if you're getting a good monthly payment.
  • mpl82mpl82 Posts: 9
    edited November 2012
    Are taxes, tags and title included in the monthly cost calculation?

    What fees can I expect to pay upon purchasing a new lease and what are ballpark estimates?
  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    edited November 2012
    You asked...

    Are taxes, tags and title included in the monthly cost calculation?

    They can be but don't have to be... it's up to you. All or some of these costs can be capitalized or paid up front at lease inception.

    What fees can I expect to pay upon purchasing a new lease and what are ballpark estimates?

    Can't provide ball park estimates. Taxes vary widely from state to state and bank acquisition fees and dealer doc fees vary as well. For instance, Honda charges a $595 acquistion fee whereas Mercedes-Benz charges $795. Texas and Illinois levy sales tax on the purchase price (i.e., Agreed Upon Value) while several states like Florida, Indiana, and Arizona levy sales tax on the monthly payment... a huge difference. The maximum dealer doc fee that dealers can charge in Ohio is $250 while in NY it's $75 unless, of course, these state mandated maxims have changed.

    Hope this helps.

    John
    TheAutoLeaseGeek
  • mpl82mpl82 Posts: 9
    Thanks John - which way do you recommend: paying up front or adding to the cap cost? Why?

    Thanks
  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    edited November 2012
    Depends upon the cost of money (i.e., interest rate % = money factor x 2400... this is a very good approximation which will serve as a basis for comparison). If money is relatively cheap, then I suggest you capitalize everything and pay as little up front as possible. You can even capitalize the first month's payment. One thing you don't want to do is put money down (i.e., cap cost reduction) because a car is a depreciating asset. Furthermore, if you total the vehicle, you may lose part or all of your cap reduction.

    John
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,879
    If you are in the process of car shopping, using online forums and tools and plan to visit a dealer soon, a reporter would like to hear from you. Please email PR@edmunds.com by Tuesday, November 13, 2012 and provide a few lines about your experience so far.

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

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