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Full-size pickup sales - F-150 best selling truck, but for how much longer?



  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Nissan has a full sized truck but only with one engine and two cabs. It won't reach 70000 units. At 125,000 units last year and only limited configurations Toyota was not a major player either.
  • So, 70K and 125K is not a "major" player but 200K is?

    Let's see. 75K, 125K, 200K.................900K Seems like Tundra is closer to a "minor" player than a "Major" player to me.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    It's not even so much the volume. It's the breadth of the lineup and the volume. But that's just my own view. There are others for sure.

    Toyota is definitely a minor player at present no question. In comparison to the Big Two it's small. It's not so small in relation to Dodge though. But in any event it still only comes down to profits and bottom line. All 4 are likely to be HUGELY profitable in this segment.
  • b2900b2900 Posts: 20
    Can't beat them, I joined them. My age is 53 and I remember the Toyota dealership opening with their small cars that rusted out pretty fast.Back then I thought Toyota did not have a chance against the big three. Well I humbly admitt I was wrong. As a former owner of Ford PKUPS I am now the proud owner of my second Toyota PKUP Simply put QUALITY, GREAT RESALE, and finally a truck that not only meets but exceeds anything the big three offers in their gas engine line up. More horse power, more tow ability, better fuel mileage, many standard options that is options in others. I for one will never say never as to who will sell the most pickups in the future.
  • h20h20 Posts: 42
    I'm 55 years old, not to trump you,I ownd a 1960 chevy fleet side bought in 1985 loved it,three on the tree and had to bouble clutch first and secound gear to make them drop in. my next truck was a toyota deluxe single cab I bought three toys after that and they were bullet proof. I now own a 07 crewmax sr5 4by4 and love driving it. I see alot of negative posts about this model but have not yet expeienced most of the problems listed. Rumble strip has seamed to have gone away when I don't feather the the throtle between 30 and 40 mph. I love this truck!
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    "I see alot of negative posts about this model but have not yet expeienced most of the problems listed."

    The words "not yet" means that you expect to experience the problems? Seriously though good luck with your truck. I wouldn't wish a bad experience on anyone especially when Consumer Reports just gave the 4x4 Tundra an "unreliable" rating.
  • b2900

    I had just the opposite experience as you. Bought my first Toyota 4x4 in 1985, really liked it. Based on my experience with my '85, I eagerly bought another in 1992, and after quite a few problems, WORSE quality than my 1985, factory recalls, and crummy dealer service I said not again this time around. Why should a vehicle get worse from 1985 to 1992? With 7 more years of experience under their belt, it should have been significantly better.

    Quality? 1985 yes, 1992 no. The quality trend is in the wrong direction. CR just verified my attitude, but I don't pay a whole lotta attention to magazine reports. I trust my own eyes and judgment much more, having worked on cars and trucks for the last 35 years. Resale? Doesn't matter much to me, I tend to keep a vehicle for a long time, and resale is usually pretty low by then on anything no matter who makes it.

    Looked at the Tundra frame, interior, exterior and it didn't make the grade, and they couldn't make the sale to me. I'm absolutely not saying I'll never buy another Toyota, I might, but they have a looooong way to go to get me to return to buy a full size p'up. The Big 3 offerings aren't perfect, nothing is, but I see lots of ancient Chevys, Dodges, & Fords still hard at work after years of loyal service to their owners. The 2007 Tundra? How many will be on the road in 20-25 years? Few, if any, I'm guessing.

    But good luck w/yours, I really do hope it works out for you. Compettiton is good for the industry, and if it serves to shake things up a bit I'm all for it.

  • h20h20 Posts: 42
    i'm not sure how you get expect from "not yet" but you know best. btw i was just having a conversation with another person on this site. don't understand your motivations to attack and be rude? never mind please don't respond.
  • h20h20 Posts: 42
    i may not agree with all you have said but at least your honest and you make good points. no truck/car is perfict.
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    Resale is based on 2 things, Supply and Demand.

    Toyotas have higher resale value right now because the never made huge numbers of trucks. Even 250,000 per year is not a big number compared to what the Big 3 especially Ford and GM have been churning out over 30 years.

    The Ford and GM trucks lower resale value is solely a reflection of lower perceived quality. Even if they were perfect and ran for 500,000 miles there are still so many of them out there.

    Here in NJ i OFTEN seen F-series and GM trucks from the 70s and 80s on the road. I don't hardly ever see an older Toyota truck on the road.

  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    " I don't hardly ever see an older Toyota truck on the road."

    I remember owning a Toyota back in the 70's. The complaint I had is similar to what some of the new Tundra owners are complaining about which is that the body metal is soft and will dent easily. Back then I heard that they were made out of recycled beer cans. I guess there might be some truth to that.
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    Main Entry: 1yet
    Pronunciation: \ˈyet\
    Function: adverb
    Etymology: Middle English, from Old English gīet; akin to OldFrisian ieta yet
    Date: before 12th century

    1 a: in addition : besides 2 a (1): up to now : so far —often used to imply the negative of a following infinitive

    (2): at this or that time : so soon as now b: continuously up to the present or a specified time : still c: at a future time : eventually

    Here's the definition of yet and if you input the definition into your statement you will get a "not at this or that time". So my question was do you expect it in the future? That was based on your statement.

    If you believe my post was an attack, I suggest you report it to a host. I asked a question and you think its an attack? You're too funny... :P
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,516
    I'm reporting it to a host... me.

    The sarcasm isn't necessary... we all know what the word means. Keep the debate on a more mature level, please.

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  • b2900b2900 Posts: 20
    I beg to differ with you. My wife is a sales rep that puts alot of miles on her Camry and she trades every two years ..She has had some 11 Toyotas and there has never been a trade in where we felt offended Actually it is exactly the opposite were always amazed what they offer her as her cars are high mileage. As well there is not two weeks after the trade that we get a call for the new owners of her cars.

    In all I was a die hard Ford man and still have a hot rod Ford.. It was her that got me to at least try one and I am impressed. My last 2004 Tundra wil 120KM that I paid $26K for I was given$18K on a trade. My last Ford that was close to the same price and age and mileage the Ford dealer offers me $10K on a trade?????
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,516
    Oct 07 / Oct 06 / +/- / CY 2007 / CY 2006 / +/-
    F-Series /51,741 / 55,947 / -7.5 / 588,952 / 672,732 / -12.5
    Silverado /48,716 / 52,409 / -10.6 / 526,575 / 539,310 / -2.4
    Ram /24,711 / 28,251 / -13.0 / 301,689 / 303,476 / -1.0
    Sierra /17,417 / 18,080 / -7.4 / 174,621 / 177,813 / -1.8
    Tundra /17,868 / 10,046 / 71.0 / 162,348 / 101,571 / 59.2
    Titan / 5,001 / 5,499 / -12.6 / 55,960 / 61,750 / -9.7
    Mark LT / 666 / 946 / -29.6 / 7,319 / 10,668 / -31.4

    Ford needs three things:
    1 - a quick strike-free UAW negotiation
    2 - a quick end to the UAW/International strike (to keep Super Duty trucks going)
    3 - a redesigned 2009 F150 that people will want over the competition.

    On that third point, Ford can't fall short. The new Silverado/Sierra and Tundra have a year head start. Dodge will release the new Ram at the same time as the F150. The bar is set at a level Ford has never seen before, and their #1 status is definitely at risk.

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  • There is an interesting link to an audio interview at the NPR web site. An official with Consumer Reports explains why they give the 2007 Tundra a "Not Recommended" rating, along with the Camry V-6, and the Lexus GS. He says this is unusual, they usually give Toyota vehicles a "Recommended" rating. He also says it is based on surveys of ACTUAL OWNERS. So, according to CR, actual 2007 Tundra owners are complaining about reliability, esp. the
    V-8 4x4 model.

    This is a sign of hubris that I mentioned in a previous post. It is very predictable in a company that has developed a good reputation, and then has grown faster that it is capable of sustaining at a high quality level. Toyota is coasting on its reputation, and quality is suffering. It has made the all-too-common mistake of thinking that whatever it throws out there people will stand in line to buy. Not! Toyota is not unique in that respect, GM and Ford have seen it too, but they have turned the quality corner that Toyota is just now entering. Toyota is learing a tough lesson in the full size truck market, traditionally the hardest market to crack which is the reason they've done so poorly there in the past (T100, earlier Tundra).

    Sales will suffer over what they should have been, and they now have catching up to do instead of building on their solid reputation.

    Don't bother pointing to the big "increase" in Tundra sales from last year, that is like comparing grapes to watermelons. The previous Tundra was nowhere near the capability of a full size truck. The early model had such poor sales, numbers could only go up from there.

  • mule2mule2 Posts: 11
    In response to everyone that talks about the quality of Toyotas. I bought a new 2001 Cadillac Seville Sls a $45,000
    car kept it 3 years had four inches of water get in it because the body wasn't sealed , had a wheel bearing go out,had instrument cluster replaced, had computer problems, had seat heaters go bad,the car was 3 years old looked great had 65000 miles on it could only get $10,500 trade in. Replaced it with a Nissan 2005 Pathfinder has been a great car no problems bought a new 2004 chevrolet Z71 had nothing but problems had rear end put replaced , had transmiision problems, Had instrument cluster problems, had drive shaft problems, had steering column problems, got rid of truck at 30,000 miles because I was gun shy of it, bought a new Toyota Tundra problems had that I don't like the bed shakes and vibration and I was told by Toyota dealer that Toyota was supposed to come out with a bulletin to fix problem the Toyota does have good performance I pulled a 9500lb. 34ft Jayco Eagle camper in the Ozark Mountains and it did as good of job as aDodge Diesel that I had before I bought The Chevrolet anyone can go to chevrolet, ford and dodge forums and they are having lots of problems too, But I believe the japenese automobiles have a better resale value than the big 3
  • I agree, resale may be better, but I keep cars a long time, resale is always minimal for me anyway. Lots of vehicles have problems, but as a former Toyota pickup owner I can attest they also have lots of problems. I decided to try something different this time around. I have no brand loyalty.

    What makes me LOL are the posters who seem to worship at the "Toyota quality" altar, as if they can do no wrong. Toyota is just like the rest, they have feet of clay.

    Message to all auto makers - when you work the bugs out of a particular component and it is reliable and the does the job - engine, transmission, whatever - LEAVE IT THE HELL ALONE! We don't need change just for the sake of change. Especially truck buyers. If you feel you must change something, change the body style or something that doesn't compromise the function of the vehicle. Keeping a rugged component also will reduce your cost - in design, production, and minimal warranty service. It will INCREASE SALES - buyers will know that the components are durable and time-tested, and will reward you accordingly with their purchases.

    Got that? Good.

  • mule2mule2 Posts: 11
    A prime examble Is when ford replaced the 7.3 diesal with the 6.0 which had problems. I started to buy 1 before i bought a chev. z71 witch was a lemon.A friend that worked in service dept. told me about them. I tried to find a 7.3 but could'nt.I'm not good on spelling.
  • AMEN to that...
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