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Full-size pickup sales - F-150 best selling truck, but for how much longer?

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  • bugchuckerbugchucker Posts: 118
    Friends don't let friends buy ford. Do you know what a 1/2 ton is?
  • bugchuckerbugchucker Posts: 118
    Wow! I guess the Tundra is king of the 1/2 tons.
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,516
    ...........May 07 May 06 +/- CY 2007 CY 2006 +/-
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    F-Series...61,939/ 70,175/ -11.7/ 290,282/ 334,725/ -13.3
    Silverado..63,790/ 55,316/ 10.9/ 265,941/ 258,378/ 2.9
    Ram........31,327/ 29,599/ 6.0/ 154,143/ 150,799/ 2.0
    Sierra.....19,467/ 17,756/ 5.4/ 84,106/ 80,957/ 3.9
    Tundra.....17,727/ 7,974/ 113.8/ 61,113/ 48,636/ 24.7
    Titan.......4,899/ 5,713/ -17.5/ 28,668/ 33,415/ -14.9
    Mark LT.......670/ 957/ -30.0/ 3,576/ 5,576/ -35.9

    (For those of you breaking out calculators, some manufacturers calculate percentage on daily sales rate, some do it by overall volume.)

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  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,661
    Tundra May sales May 2007 vs. May 2006.

    "Tundra sales were 17,727, up 122 percent."

    http://www.philly.com/philly/wires/ap/business/7789236.html

    Bob
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,516
    The 113.8% figure is from Toyota, and represents the sales rate increase... there was one fewer selling day last year in May.

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  • jrljrl Posts: 39
    The Sierra/Silverado debate is an interesting one in which I see both points. I'll give you my example. My uncle recently purchased a new truck. His decision came down to a GMC or a Ford. He would not consider a Chevrolet. (this was because his last truck was a chevy..and it did not perform to his satisfaction) In this case the Sierra was a very different truck for him than the silverado...even if it came down to a trust issue (he said GMC only focuses on trucks..unlike chevy division) Also..I think GM is smart enough that if they felt the majority of the public would view this battle the way some in here do...they will dispute Ford's claims on tv through advertisment. IMHO..I can't see how Ford has held onto the controversial title this long. To me there is no doubt that most Americans either trust a Chevy truck or a Ford truck. These two manufacturers know their competition..its the other guy. So if Chevy does not wrestle this title away in 07..I would be mad as a chevy man. How can you come out with the newest truck...and not have the best truck and sell the most? I can see how Toyota and Nissan and even Dodge can..because the trust and loyalty and name recognition it not there yet..but Chevy is. The same could be said for Ford in 2008. If they lose the title now or hang on..how could they not outsell Chevy in 09 after coming out with the newest trusted truck? Beats me? As for looks someone was mentioning earlier. I think looks have been the biggest weakness for chevy since the 70s as far as trucks go..inside and out...and although the last gen Ford was no beauty...the 04-07 has been considered "handsome" by many Car mags like Car and Driver and Motortrend. The new chevy is certainly much better looking however..inside and out..which is the reason why it should overtake ford this year (and fact that it is ALL new) As for truck of the year..its almost always just the new truck out. Come on..abra cadabra..2008-2009 truck of year will be new Ford as soon as it comes out..then...abra cadabra...2012 (I'm guessing here) chevy will have truck of year..see my point. Anyway...will Ford retain title..if they hang on this year, yes..if not regain it next year..but after that..will Ford even be around??? As a ford fan..I'm sad..just like I was when Chevy discontinued the camaro for a time..What is Chevy without Ford..what is Ford without Chevy...What is America without both. Car companies that once led us to victory..along with Chrysler..against the Nazi's may not see us through another generation. I'd rather buy a half-[non-permissible content removed]ed Ford or Chevy and see it broke down in my driveway than purchase a Toyota, Honda, or Nissan. sorry..its crazy...but so is that American flag flying sideways in my front yard!
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,661
    Your uncle's logic makes no "rational" sense. The Chevy and GMC are virtually the same truck, yet he prefers the GMC because of his past bad experience with Chevy.

    I can see and understand his emotional feelings here, but to think his new GMC will be better than a new Chevy makes absoluely no sense. Maybe he expects the GMC "dealer" will treat him better—but that has nothing to do with the truck(s).

    Bob
  • jrljrl Posts: 39
    Bob,

    I see your point..perhaps it was a dealer thing. On the other hand...maybe he researched the liability of both trucks...since GMCs sale in smaller numbers...maybe liability issues show up in a smaller percentage? don't know..but I do know a truck with a bowtie in front was not an option for him...and regular cab f150s were hard for him to find at the local ford dealer..so he went with the sierra. I'm sure he can't be the only one that feels that way in america about a "rebadged" automobile. I'm just saying that speaks to the argument that the sierra/silverado should be counted as one truck versus the f150....by the way does anyone know if Ford counts its Lincoln truck as part of total f series sales..not that it would be a substantial number..put just interested in knowing....
  • jrljrl Posts: 39
    p.s.

    Bob..I think "rational" is a bad choice of wording..how many people actually need a 1/2 ton pickup truck in America...Over 2 million every year...I doubt that one...vehicles are more emotional purchases I think.....with function as only one (although maybe a more important onr) of the factors that go into the purchase process
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,516
    Model -- Jun 07 / Jun 06 / +/- / CY 2007 / CY 2006 / +/-
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    F-Series -- 65,156 / 65,452 / -0.5 / 355,438 / 400,177 / -11.2
    Silverado -- 44,955 / 58,791 / -26.4 / 310,896 / 317,169 / -2.0
    Ram -- 31,114 / 32,375 / -4.0 / 185,257 / 183,174 / 1.0
    Sierra -- 15,187 / 20,661 / -29.2 / 99,293 / 101,618 / -2.3
    Tundra -- 21,727 / 8,822 / 137.2 / 82,840 / 57,458 / 42.3
    Titan -- 4,405 / 5,422 / -21.8 / 33,073 / 38,837 / -15.9
    Mark LT -- 756 / 974 / -22.4 / 4,332 / 6,550 / -33.9

    Some of the percentages will not appear mathematically correct, as some manufacturers (e.g. Toyota) post the sales rate in terms of units per selling day instead of overall totals. There was one extra day in June 2007 over June 2006.

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  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,661
    No argument there. But the same could be said of a 2-seat sport car. It's more a matter of "want" rather than "need." :)

    Bob
  • jrljrl Posts: 39
    Any particular reason why Silverado and Sierra dropped so much in June..is it lack of incentives or just an off month? dang..look at Tundra closing in on Sierra and Ram...dang..thats pretty fast...its pretty interesting to see the age of the f150 show up in numbers..guess its why they moved up the new one by a whole year...
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    Or to sell the most trucks, they are out to make profits. The have calculated how many peeps will be turned off by a truck with rear drum brakes vs. the costs of putting disks on and they feel its more profitable to use drums and loose a few sales.

    Even the latest GMC truck does not match the 2004 Ford in build sophistication. The regular cab does not have the rear access doors. Thre is no 6.5FT bed option on the crew cabs. There is no hydroforming of the front frame rails, there is no through welding on the frame cross members. No Quietsteel in the firewall, No optimized hotchkiss rear suspension with shocks mounted out board of the frame rails for greater stability. The 5.3 chevy push rod engine is way down on torque vs the 5.4 Triton and the 6.0L only has 10 lbft at great extra cost.

    Where Ford might go for 09? Start with a 4.4L diesel. Also think 6 speed trans. There is also the possibility of IRS from the Expedition being used.

    Ford even has some firsts for 08 planed including backup camera with viewer in the rear view mirror and the mid box storage option for Fleet.

    Mark
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    Chevy is not out to be the best? Are you joking? What president of development or any of the EVPs or SVPs could possibly keep their job NOT aiming to be the best? Profits are certainly their focus, but they have a reputation to uphold. I can't even believe I'm defending Chevy/GMC here, but I certainly think their product is loads better than Ford. The Ford King Ranch edition was very nice inside, but overall it was the worst driving truck out of everything that I drove including the Titan, Silverado, Ram and Tundra. Nothing felt as sluggish as the F150. It had no guts. I would say, just by feel that it was a good 1.5 seconds slower to hwy speed than any of the other competitors. Brakes were awful and certainly made one pray. Options were lackluster and only the RAM lacked more inside. Leather was great but seating position was bad for a tall person like me, though for most that won't be a problem (i'm close to 6'5").
    Personally, I think there is still a significant part of the truck market that buys what their used to buying. Ford profits from that. It may not be great at much of anything, but it is familiar and people like that.
    No question that the Silverado was much better than the Ford. But it wasn't that long ago that Ford buyers went to one bar and Chevy buyers went to another. So, it will be a number of years before the truck industry sees a shift based on features rather than loyalty in the truck segment purchasing behavior of the public.
    For now, Ford can make the sales claim against Chevy, (excluding GMC sales) but their both bleeding truck sales... if Nissan and Toyota can make money with the limited numbers that they sell while GMC/Chevy/Ford/Dodge keep loosing money, I don't see how this numbers contest amounts to "winning" anything at all. Its a business, not a high-school popularity contest; and businesses need money to survive...
  • jrljrl Posts: 39
    belias,

    I disagree with your assessment of the trucks themselves...the Ford is certainly slow..but I think the interior and exterior are its real attributes over chevy(in 04, 05,06..the new one makes the playing field more even), nissan, and maybe even toyota (and your right..not as many people trust the Dodge..i.e...people buy what they are use to) I also felt the ride was way better..especially handling..most of the other trucks..except titan..felt very top heavy. Anyway..thats a matter of experience I guess..but I certainly agree with the latter part about what you said which was very important. Both truck lines are bleeding...and I think the problem might be their market. The biggest auto boom is going to take place not in this Country but in China over the next 20-25 years. If Ford/GM can convince the Chinese that they need pickups and that Fords/GMs are the best..they will be saved...If the Japanese coutnerparts convince the Chinese their pick ups and cars are superior..then that is bad. I know one thing...the American auto industry better stuff its face in the chinese market quick before the Chinese auto industry takes off as well...because the future is in the East! We better start producing or we are down the tube..not just two auto companies from detroit!
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    Well yes beauty is in the eye of the beholder so obviously there will be different assessments as to what vehicle is good. I did like Ford's materials, but layout and features on the interior I felt were lacking against everyone except Dodge. But to each his own!
    I agree that China poses the greatest threat for vehicle manufacturing. Fortunately they seem to be more receptive to American vehicles there, though I'm not sure if that will translate into real sales. GM seems to be doing quite well there, but I really do hope that the auto market here isn't taken over by the Chinese automakers. At least with Japanese/Korean automakers, we have plants and workers here that partially offset the money spent.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Ford would stop lying, and make some real towing claims based off their 2009 truck.

    The 2006 struggles with a 8500lb load, now it can tow 11k, all of the sudden? :surprise:

    DrFill
  • eliotmeeliotme Posts: 2
    I have been a Ford fan and customer for 40+ years.....but that has/is changing.

    My 2002 F150 Lariat Supercrew with 66,250 miles spit out a spark plug while I was on vacation. Luck had it that it happened at a start up and not while under way in traffic, which would have seriously endangered my family; not to mention the fire hazard.

    The servicing dealer (not my home dealer) and Ford Customer Care lead me to believe that this was an isolated case and that the spark plug blew out of the head because my home dealer had improperly replaced the plugs in my truck. As it turns out: the spark plugs in my truck were never replaced, they were in fact the factory plugs. After some research I also find out that certain Ford motors with aluminum heads are experiencing problems with spitting out spark plugs.

    For more info on this problem and Ford's non-action go to:
    http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2007/05/ford_techs_spark_plugs.html

    There is lots of info out there about this problem and Ford's non action.

    I know that I paid $2788.80 to have a new head installed in a vehicle with 66,250 miles; and I am only one of many that have experienced this problem. I also know that Ford Motor Company seems to be denying that any problem exists.

    If Ford continues to do business like this, then it is no wonder that foreign companies are doing better in the marketplace. And that is too bad.

    I've owned many Ford trucks, convinced two companies to switch their national van fleets to Ford, owned a 1950 Woody wagon, 1966 Mustang, and a 1966 Sunbeam Tiger (Ford motor and drive train).

    My 2002 F150 may be the last Ford I ever own and I will never recommend a Ford to anybody.

    I will however continue to do business with my local Ford dealer (Starkey Ford in York ME). They usually have a great selection of used Audi, Volvo, etc. They are a great dealer, it's too bad that Ford has faltered.
  • wpalkowskiwpalkowski Posts: 493
    Sorry your motor spit a plug. I've heard the job costing as much as $4K in the Northeast.

    Up through 2002 the heads on the Triton engines were designed with only about 4 threads holding the spark plug. The heads are Aluminum, and if the plugs were torqued too tight, the threads are easily ruined, and then the plug pops. Also, if the plugs weren't tightened enough, then there aren't enough threads to hold it in place - the plug could eventually back off and blow out. The Heads have since been redesigned with more threads. (I believe about midway through 2002.)

    The incidence of pitting plugs is low. But, considering that Ford has sold a few million of these engines, even if the incidence of blowing spark plugs is <1%, it's still a lot of motors.


    Ford dealers will always say to replace the cylinder head in cases where you lost a plug; it's the only repair they'll warranty. However, there's an aftermarket repair kit out there called a "Timesert" that allows you to put new threads into the messed up spark plug opening. The kit with the special threaded insert, and installation tools costs ~$300, and the there's 2-3 hours of labor involved. From what I've read on other message boards, they seem to work fine for a great price.

    Even though Ford manual says plugs don't have to be changed 'till 100K, it doesn't mean that you don't check them from time to time. I have a 2001 V-10. It's a knucklebuster, but I've pulled the plugs every 25K miles or so. I cleaned them, put on some anti-seize lube and then carefully tightened them to the specified 19 ft-lbs of torque.
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