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Full-size pickup sales - F-150 best selling truck, but for how much longer?

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Comments

  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    If that is why you are buying a truck, Ford is not building a truck for you.

    The F-150 uses the most expensive truck frame on the market today and it is by far the strongest. It is Hydroformed under engine and cab and fully boxed from front to rear.

    The Tundra frame is welded where it is boxed and c-channel the rest of the way.

    The F-150 uses fully boxed cross beams that pass through the frame rail and are welded on each side.

    The Tundra uses stamped cross beams that are riveted.

    The fact is that the F-150 is much more likely to be the truck that rides like new at 200,000 miles.

    Also the 4.7 V8 on Tundra STILL uses a timing belt.

    Mark.
  • on your last post you mentioned the tundra uses a timing belt as opposed to timing chain. do you happen to know if the nissan titan uses a chain or belt. am deciding between the 5.3 silverado and the titan to purchase. i assume the chevy uses chain?
  • Chevy motors use a different design, they are pushrod activated valves and not DOHC and therefore they use a timing CHAIN as opposed to a belt. Under normal circumstances the chain on Chevy V-8s does not need to be replaced.

    1offroader
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    Titan also uses a chain
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,516
    The September numbers:

    Sep 07 / Sep 06 / +/- / CY 2007 / CY 2006 / +/-
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    F-Series / 56,065 / 70,822 / -20.8 / 537,211 / 616,785 / -12.9
    Silverado / 52,480 / 51,964 / 5.0 / 477,859 / 486,901 / -1.9
    Ram / 30,100 / 25,081 / 20.0 / 276,978 / 275,225 / 1.0
    Sierra / 18,445 / 17,604 / 9.0 / 157,204 / 159,733 / -1.6
    Tundra / 19,571 / 12,609 / 61.4 / 144,480 / 91,525 / 57.9
    Titan / 5,193 / 6,073 / -11.1 / 50,959 / 56,251 / -9.4
    Mark LT / 795 / 1,203 / -33.9 / 6,653 / 9,722 / -31.6

    Don't go overboard - debate away!

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • joel0622joel0622 Posts: 3,302
    It is funny to look at those numbers yet see all over edmunds (this thread included) that Ford is losing leadership and the Tundra is going to blah blah blah, but as you can see like every year we are ahead of Chevrolet and beating the wannabe truck makers like a drum.

    Hell those numbers don't even include medium and heavy sales which we are stomping a mud hole in the competitors butt there also.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Those aren't F-150 sales numbers, those are F-series sales.

    You do know the difference, right? :sick:

    The HDs are good for around 40% of F-series sales.

    Same for the Silverado.

    DrFill
  • joel0622joel0622 Posts: 3,302
    You do know the difference, right?

    Yes but obviously you don't, that is why I put the fact that the numbers do not include medium and heady. HD's are not 40% of our sales. A HD is for your info the size of a Peterbuilt truck. YTD we have sold 30,000 medium and heavy trucks. Which are not included in those numbers What you are talking about is Super Duty trucks. If you are going to continuously bash a company at least do a little research and quit shooting from the hip and being wrong.

    F150 Light Duty Truck

    F250-550 Super Duty Truck

    F650-750 Medium Duty Truck

    Heavy Duty, the Chassis you see Fire Engines built on. Don't know if we continue the F nomenclature up that high or not
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Super Duty is HD. Diesels available. Special frames.
    There is Light-duty, and there is HD, or Super Duty. Ford never uses the term "Medium Duty", and you damn sure won't see that on their trucks!

    Ford Sales NA doesn't brake it down that way, so neither will I.

    I don't know where you got that mess from, but it is a messterpiece! :confuse:

    I've sold Ford's for 3 years, and I know the difference.

    Apparently your hips are shot! :sick:

    DrFill
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,516
    Sorry Doc... Joel is generally correct. What is commonly referred to as a "heavy duty pickup" is really a light-medium in terms of USDOT weight classes. And Ford does indeed refer to the F650-750 as medium-duty trucks. True heavy duty trucks are upper class 7 and class 8 - GVWR of over 30,000 pounds.

    That "mess" is from the federal weight class chart:

    Class 1 subclasses:
    Class A--Not greater than 1360 kg. (3,000 lbs.)
    Class B--Greater than 1360 kg. to 1814 kg. (3,001-4,000 lbs.)
    Class C--Greater than 1814 kg. to 2268 kg. (4,001-5,000 lbs.)
    Class D--Greater than 2268 kg. to 2722 kg. (5,001-6,000 lbs.)
    Class 2 subclasses:
    Class E--Greater than 2722 kg. to 3175 kg. (6,001-7,000 lbs.)
    Class F--Greater than 3175 kg. to 3629 kg. (7,001-8,000 lbs.)
    Class G--Greater than 3629 kg. to 4082 kg. (8,001-9,000 lbs.)
    Class H--Greater than 4082 kg. to 4536 kg. (9,001-10,000 lbs.)
    Class 3--Greater than 4536 kg. to 6350 kg. (10,001-14,000 lbs.)
    Class 4--Greater than 6350 kg. to 7257 kg. (14,001-16,000 lbs.)
    Class 5--Greater than 7257 kg. to 8845 kg. (16,001-19,500 lbs.)
    Class 6--Greater than 8845 kg. to 11793 kg. (19,501-26,000 lbs.)
    Class 7--Greater than 11793 kg. to 14968 kg.(26,001-33,000 lbs.)
    Class 8--Greater than 14968 kg. (33,001 lbs. and over)

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    I know what they are. Dodge has them too with the Cummins.

    GM uses HD on all trucks 3/4 ton and up (2500/3500).

    And Ford uses Super Duty for all F-250 and up.

    When you get to chassis frames, that's not even a retail sale at that point.

    Are we talking fleet or retail? I thought we were talking retail business.

    DrFill
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    I'm sure there are a number of viable theories about the dynamics of the latest LD pick-up sales figures. The Tundra increase, while a large number, is based on an already low sales rate compared to the Chevrolet, Dodge, and Ford versions and may only mean that Toyota loyalists are responding to a much more attractive alternative, something they didn't have before the launch of the new Tundra.

    Over the years I have rarely seen a used Tundra at a Chevy, Dodge, or Ford dealership, not that that's proof of anything. But at my last visit to my Toyota dealer I saw three previous generation Tundras on their lot. I did see one 2006 Silverado, and two Titans. But no RAMs or F-150s.

    I have to say that around here the Chevy dealers seem to have plenty of stock, while Ford dealers seem to be low on trucks.

    Dusty
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,516
    That's for all vehicles, not just chassis-cab trucks. Even cars are assigned a GVWR.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • joel0622joel0622 Posts: 3,302
    You said

    The HDs are good for around 40% of F-series sales.

    Which is wrong. This is a Heavy Duty truck

    image

    Dump Trucks do not account for 40% of our truck sales.

    So I say again, please refrain from speaking of that which you are clueless on. Belive it or not there are allot of people who belive everything they read on this site.

    There are many subjects I am clueless on to, but Ford is not one of them.
  • Hey, is that a spy shot of the new F150??? LOL
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Who was talking about dump trucks? Or fleet? Or chassis cabs?

    I'm talking about the Super Duty HDs. The F-250/350/450. That's a retail, lucrative profit center for Ford. And is about 40% of F-series retail sales. If you contend 250-450 are not HD, that's different.

    I guess Chevy's 2500/3500 aren't HDs either, regardless of what it says on the billboards. :confuse:

    DrFill
  • Doc, what is your point anyway?
  • joel0622joel0622 Posts: 3,302
    I could give a rats [non-permissible content removed] what Chevy is doing. I am just trying to point out that HD trucks are not 40% of Ford truck sales.

    BTW where did you pull this 40% number from any how? I have the numbers right here in front of me and Super Duty sales (what you call HD sales for some reason) are not 40%.

    Also in another post you said that you did not know we were talking about fleet sales. Those posted #'s include fleet sales, not sure if they include Major Fleet with a FIN# or not but know for a fact they include all fleet sales.
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    The US government assigns two classifications to trucks: "pick-ups" and "trucks."

    Pick-ups have two subclassifications:
    *pick-up = Light Duty
    *pick-up = Medium duty

    Trucks have four subclassifications:
    *SUV-Light Duty
    *Truck light duty = 8500 lbs. or less
    *Truck Medium Duty = 8501 to 26,000 lbs.
    *Truck Heavy Duty = 26,000 lbs. or more.

    See http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/alternate/page/forms/codes886.pdf

    In addition, the United States Department of Transportation has defined by weight capacity:

    .........min GVWR...Max GVWR
    Class 1..................6,000....Light Duty
    Class 2...6,001.....10,000....Light Duty
    Class 3..10,001.....14,000....Light Duty
    Class 4..14,001.....16,000....Medium Duty
    Class 5..16,001.....19,500....Medium Duty
    Class 6..19,501.....26,000....Medium Duty
    Class 7..26,001.....33,000....Heavy Duty
    Class 8..33,001...............Heavy Duty

    Pick-up trucks are typically found in class 1, 2, and sometimes 3.

    Medium trucks are class 4, 5, and 6.

    Heavy trucks are class 7 and 8.

    I just looked through the various brochures and documentation that Dodge, Ford, and GM gave us in 2003 (for 2004 models) when my company was making a fleet buy. Chevy and Dodge brochures use almost the same language to describe their pick-ups, "...under class 3." Ford just lumps the SuperDuty in with the F-series and says, ...Super Duty models can be equiped to class 3 service."

    Although the word "heavy duty" appears in the Ford literature to describe certain aspects of the F-series and Superduty line (..heavy duty one ton..), nowhere in the literature I have has Ford refered to a Super Duty as a "heavy duty truck."

    Dusty
  • I think we can all agree that it is intuitively clear that F250/350 sales do not equal 40% of combined F150/250/350 sales with or without DrFill's concurrence.

    But, has anyone noticed that the pricing is very close between an F150 and an F250? Same thing between a Silverado 1500 and a Silverado 2500 HD. At a quick glance there is about a $1000 difference in MSRP between comparably (e.g., trim levels, not engines/frames) equipped vehicles. This makes the F250/350 or 2500HD with the superior drive train and chassis a much better deal. Take the Silverado. For a thou extra over a 1500 you get 2000 more Gross Combined Weight, a 6.0 with a 6 speed auto, and real (i.e, disc) rear brakes and heavy duty frame.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    http://media.ford.com/newsroom/feature_display.cfm?release=25447

    Just thought I'd let you guys show what you know. :blush:

    And now we know.

    DrFill
  • DR Fill, OK I accept this. I was wrong. I generalized from what I see in New England where there are far more soccer moms and dads buying F150s than there are wanna be Class 8 Truckers buying the F250 to drive to high school or to the office park and very, very few retirees, race car teams, or horse owners pulling fifth wheel trailers. I guess that when you include the red states the F250/350/450 sales take off.

    I do think that Ford markets the Super Duty very well. On the new '08s the tail gate even has the words SuperDuty stamped-in in big letters visible from a 100 yards away. That and other badging is way too gauche for the F150 crowd but very appropriate for the F250/350 buyer. I don't think GM does any where near as good a job at marketing the 2500HD. As a result most of them are sold as pure vocational vehicles whereas lots of the Super Dutys I see are more aspirational than vocational, seeing more duty at Home Depot than anything else.
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    We have a problem actually with the chrome bug guard. People don't want it because it covers up the "Super Duty" on the top of the grill.

    keep in mind that GM has all new trucks out there and they still aren't beating the F-Series.

    Mark.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    You're a good man, B.I.G. :)

    I'm just here to do my job, which is educate the people.

    Spread the word. ;)

    DrFill
  • joel0622joel0622 Posts: 3,302
    I was not disputing that fact. You said Heavy Duty sales and the link you gave is talking about Super Duty sales. In the land of Ford those are two totaly different products. Thank you for clearing the whole thing up.
  • DrFill and others, your a pretty smart bunch so here is a question for you. Which F150 is a better deal?

    1) '07 ex-Budget Rental with 14K miles in dark green. This 4x4 Supercab is an XLT with no other options (no trailer package, nothing)except a bed liner. But it is an XLT with the all important power windows and locks. The local Ford store is asking 21.8K

    2) A new '07 4X4 Supercab , XLT package, with some nice options to include cloth captains chairs ($300), tinted windows, positraction type rear end ($300), MP3 sterio, 5.4 engine, and trailer towing package. The bottom line of invoice less the $4500 Ford rebate is 26K.

    Gentlemen, I think one could negotiate the used one down. I don't think that the new unit is negotiable into the holdback area.

    Whaddya think?
  • Get the new one. I will NEVER buy a rental return ever again. Been there, done that...Once (Chrysler product back in 1994).
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    If you can't get a great deal on a F-150 NOW, you should turn in your negotiating card!

    Tell 'em you just drove a Tundra, and watch them bend over! :blush:

    I hate dark green on pick-ups anyway, and how many people have driven the rental? Smoked in it. Eat in it. Did God knows what?

    This is an easy one. Plus you'll get a great rate from Ford!

    That's If you have to get a second-rate truck! :confuse:

    DrFill
  • That's an outstanding deal on an outstanding new truck. Would not recommend the rental. Jump on it if you like it. I might've bought the F-150, except the seats felt like a picnic bench to my butt. Otherwise Ford makes a great truck. The market doesn't lie, despite what some people will try to "sell" you, if you get my meaning. They will try to convince you that 2 million buyers are all fools (the combined annual sales of Ford, GM, Dodge pickups) and the truck that actually sells less than 200K is actually much better. If the F-150 wasn't a great truck they wouldn't sell a zillion every year. Go with your gut.

    1offroader
  • How does this deal sound?A new 07, F150 XLT, Reg Cab which has the extra room behind the front seats and 2 doors as well. It's a 4x4, 8 cyl and the starting price was 22,695. What do you think? I haven't seen the truck yet as it's in another state. I like the size of the regular cab and the 6'5" bed. Any opinions are welcomed and appreciated.

    John
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