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Comments: Consumer Reports/JD Power Rankings

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Comments

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,628
    Your original statement led me to believe you were talking about all solid red dots equating to an overall black dot ranking. Yes, a new car with half-red dots could below average overall because most new cars today have very few problems in their first year.
  • delthekingdeltheking Posts: 1,152
    Since u asked,I checked Cr again.
    Some CR models like GMC Acadia,Saturn Outlook get final black dots even though they do not have any black ones in the ratings.
    Kia optima,Ford Edge ,Ford Escape,Nissan altima etc-- all these have 1 or more black half/full dots in the ratings --but the final verdict is a half red dot.
    How can this work both ways?Am I missing something here?
    Thanks
  • delthekingdeltheking Posts: 1,152
    Another example--when 04 Quest came out,it was a CR recommended model.
    But it actually is the worst minivan out there and the worst Nissan model and now CR lists it as used car to avoid...
    So is it why Cr has stopped recommending new cars..I amnot totally sure,,but CR still recommends new redesigned cars..
    Your opinion ?Thanks
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,628
    Yes, there's more to this than dots. There's the numbers behind the dots. Also, some problems are weighted more heavily than others. Also, the dots are not the same in your examples. E.g. the Acadia has one "blank" dot, while the Edge has none of those. Also, you have to compare cars from the same model years, because the older a car gets, the more of a dropoff there is in reliability. So a newer car is expected by CR's rating scheme to be more reliable than an older car.
  • delthekingdeltheking Posts: 1,152
    So,say a 2007 car now in the 2009 CR survey has a red dot,,but then more problems emerge,,then in the 2010 survey ,,will the 2007 model now show a black dot as new data emerges or does it remain a red dot for the rest of it`s life.
    Sure CR is slightly complicated but in my experience very accurate.
  • nortsr1nortsr1 Posts: 1,060
    Between your replies to deltaking and his to yours, I am now so totally confused as to the red full, red half and black dots...I have finally decided to no longer look at the dots and from now on just read reviews and take it from said reviews.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,713
    In reading the attempts to explain how CR uses the actual data from its unscientific survey to determine dots and reliability, I can only comment what most have learned from a science and math background: the Law of Parsimony. When it takes this much in and outing of different alleged factors to explain how CR is manipulating their dot system and how the dot system has changed through the years, it's not the real answer.

    CR has manipulated the supposed data to fit their own opinions and uses that to set the dots. One only needs to read their evaluations of cars they like and one's they don't like in their comparison testing from an analytical POV to determine that's what's happening. The writing style used to minimize or maximize importance of problems noted in cars also explains their dot system is subjective.

    This message has been approved.

  • mickeyrommickeyrom Posts: 936
    Just because a car is dependable for it's first 25K miles does not mean that it will continue into the rest of it's life.My KIA has been great so far, but the jury is still out as far as I'm concerned.In other words lets see what the next 75K brings.That is the length of the warranty.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,713
    Not sure what your reply means for my post, but Hyundai is on my list to shop if we decide to buy a new car rather than a used one through the summer. Just as reliability for US brands has changed, the reliability for Hyundai/Kia has drastically changed.

    The big negative for me is there's no nearby dealer.

    This message has been approved.

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,628
    So you are saying that it is not appropriate for CR to revise their reliability survey methodology over time--maybe in an attempt to make it better?

    Unless you have some hard evidence to back up your assertion that CR is manipulating the survey data to fit their own opinions, I have to take that as opinion.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,628
    Good idea.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,713
    >maybe in an attempt to make it better?

    How about they just list their data on each car with the number of questionnaires received for each model? That would be very clear. Instead, through the years, they have changed their data reporting appearance to make it appear that there are meaningful differences when there aren't. But that perpetuates their thinking and makes people believe CR has something meaningful in differences.

    Wouldn't you rather have them report their information with full transparency?

    This message has been approved.

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,628
    I would prefer that CR be more clear about their methodology, but moreso on how they rank cars through their testing vs. the reliability scores. I have enough info on how they determine the reliability scores to satisfy me. From what I've seen, CR has provided more details about that in recent years. There's a long Q&A on it on their Web site, for example (viewable to non-subscribers too) that I have found helpful. I understand that the "dots" are a convenient way to report the survey results to a broad range of consumers--many of whom would be befuddled by just the raw data, IMO. They aren't perfect, but other organizations e.g. JD Power use a similar approach, e.g. a numerical score 1-5 instead of different colored dots. Also, I don't see other organizations such as JD Power report on the number of survey responses they receive on each vehicle model.
  • dtownfbdtownfb Posts: 2,915
    I don't think the 2004 Nissan Quest was ever recommended by CR. It really is not a bad minivan at all. The first year was disatrous though.

    Yes, I own one with 72k miles. Nissan extending the bumper to bumper to 5 yr/60k miles was a big help.

    I think I like my minivan better now since I paid it off 3 months ago. :shades:
  • delthekingdeltheking Posts: 1,152
    If u have access to CR reports,,u can check it out.Check out for the review on the 04 Quest in the used cars section.There it states it is recommended.Later it was listed as a used car to avoid.But initially for the 1st year till data emerged it was recommended .
    Also,I have 04 used Quest which I bought 3 months ago.Knew all it`s problems.But needed a minivan and had got a real heck of a deal on it.A screaming bargain!So went ahead.
    But a new Quest??Absolutely no way...No comparison to Ody/Sienna,,,not even remotely close!!
  • dtownfbdtownfb Posts: 2,915
    I'll have to check. I have access to the online version of CR.

    I agree i would not buy another Quest. We'll ride this one to 100k miles. We'll definitely need another minivan with 3 kids. Ody/Sienna will be top on the list. Of course, never know what might be on the market in 3 years.
  • choe13choe13 Posts: 348
    Hyundai just became the highest ranked non luxury brand in terms of the IQS jumping from 13th last year to 4th this year.

    The hungriest car company in the planet at the moment
  • longo2longo2 Posts: 347
    Now if Hyundai would just put a 2.2 ltr clean Diesel engine in a Sonata, that goes 40+ mpg, I get rid of my "seemed like a good idea at the time" car decisions, and get one.

    Seems I will have to buy a VW Jetta TDI until Hyundai gets the message that VW is busy selling their TDI's as fast as the trucks can deliver them.

    All things considered I would guess a Hyundai TDI would be a home run hit for them.
  • delthekingdeltheking Posts: 1,152
    JD Powers IQS is the most worthless survey out there.3 months to evaluate a car and create a ratings system.Sheesh! :confuse:
    CR is so reliable and accurate..And Hyundai has made terrific strides.You have got to hand it to them.From the ridiculed cars of the 90`s to the top of the pack challenging Toyota and Honda--well ,that takes some doing.
    CR`s info was so accurate for each vehicle owned--It was like a science.U could pinpoint a problem so correctly.
    Just MHO.
  • delthekingdeltheking Posts: 1,152
    I know it`s a bit off topic but since the CR vs JD Power thread is inactive and since a lot of folks-salesmen and buyers both- trash CR and say it is inaccurate and its reports are biased or false and that JD power relatively is a better survey,here is a link which shows the absurdity ,crappy nature of the JD Power.
    Brake dust is equivalent to engine failure on their survey and their chief acknowledges this brazenly :confuse: Go Figure !! No wonder brands like LandRover try to trumpet this stupid rating system and claim their vehicles are more reliable. ;) And it also shows how Hyundai is really catching up to Honda/Toyota which as a buyer is a good thing for me. :shades:
    The link:
    link title

    Mods,please feel free to move this to a different thread if it`s more relevant there.
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