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04 Acura TSX vs Certified 04 BMW 325i vs 04 Saab 9-3 Aero

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Comments

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Yes, European delivery would be the way to go. If I ever buy a new BMW, that's what I'd do.

    Why do you say the TSX is underpowered? On the dragstrip, numerous magazine tests show the 2004 TSX is just as quick (if not quicker) than the other two.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Thanks circlew. I've followed that study of Mobil 1 and Amsoil synthetic too - very interesting stuff...

    http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html

    Personally, I change the Mobil 1 in my BMW and Volvo every 6 - 7K miles.
  • cotmccotmc Posts: 1,081
    Based on the title of this discussion topic, I'm assuming we are comparing used cars, not new ones. Hence, I assume this is the E46 BMW platform.

    I don't have the literature in front of me, but if I remember correctly, the '05 325Ci brochure calls out 0-60mph time of 7.1 sec with the 5-sp manual. I have an old Car & Driver review that measured 7.0 sec for a 325i. I thought I saw a TSX road test that was slightly above 8 seconds?

    But if we are comparing new cars, such as the new 328i, then the difference will be greater. I think the 328i is somewhere around 6.4 seconds.

    The one thing I remember from an extensive TSX test drive: I needed to rev the engine at high rpm's in order to get reasonably good acceleration from it. That's not exactly a real-world driving style for me. At lower rpm's, it didn't seem any quicker than my Volvo S40 2.4i (non-turbo) model.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Yes, we're talking about the E46. The E46 325i with manual transmission will hit 60 MPH in about 7 seconds. Unfortunately, we're discussing the 325xi - add about 1/2 second for the AWD model.

    8 seconds is for an auto tranny TSX. The 6-speed is quicker - in the low to mid 7's.

    Revving the engine and shifting through the gears is one of the joys of driving the TSX. But if you're addicted to torque, it's definitely not the car for you.
  • Yes, I am serious and actually own 2005 325xi.

    Oil change: Nice try, but don't you think that all the possible events, i.e. metal particles, insolubles, plugged oil filter etc that you have listed would indeed affect the oil temperature?- I thought so.

    FYI, oil change at the BMW dealerships costs $199.00. How did you come up with the $30/year saving?

    AWD - Stability control, but not the traction control in the Honda/Acura models works at all speed through application of the brakes to a particular wheel(s)to correct skidding. In the front/rear wheel drive cars traction control usually operates at the speed below 50 mph. Again, it offers a little help and adds very little to a car safety at a highway speed on slippery roads.

    Matroskin
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Oil change - If a parachute manufacturer computer-tested their chutes and determined they would remain failure free for 1500 openings, would you jump out of a plane with a chute that has logged 1488?

    Sorry, but an onboard computer programmed with an algorithm to "predict" oil life will never be a substitute for preventative maintenance.

    $30/year - KMart sells Mobil 1 for $4.99/quart.

    http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/p_10151_10104_99900600ZE068000P?vName=Tools+%26+Outdo- - ors&sLevel=0

    AWD - Stability control by definition is a combination of anti-lock brakes, traction control, and yaw control. All three systems are fully integrated and in effect at all speeds.

    "ESC also integrates all-speed traction control, which senses drive-wheel slip under acceleration and individually brakes the slipping wheel or wheels, and/or reduces excess engine power, until control is regained."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Stability_Control

    "Laying the groundwork for stability control, in the mid-80s Bosch brought the antilock braking system (ABS) to market...After Bosch perfected ABS, the company moved on to the second "building block" — traction control...This brings us to our present topic: stability control. The third "building block" in modern braking systems, stability control incorporates everything ABS and traction control do plus a yaw-sensing feature..."

    http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/safety/articles/45992/article.html
  • Well... and the song remains the same.

    The wrong parachute analogy: if the car is still under a warranty, and all the recommended service was properly performed at the respective dealership, the manufacturer will assume full responsibility for the engine failure.

    KMart Mobil 1 - I honestly do not think that a mix between KMart and BMW would be a nice blend. If you bought an expensive car: stop counting beans. In your cost saving estimate you forgot to include a cost for an oil filter and oil disposal.

    AWD/Stability control: the information you have provided does not apply to all car models. For example, in BMW and Volvo cars it is called stability and traction control, or STC. You can have a traction control in Honda/Acura cars without the stability one.

    Good luck,

    Matroskin
  • cotmccotmc Posts: 1,081
    "...if the car is still under a warranty, and all the recommended service was properly performed at the respective dealership, the manufacturer will assume full responsibility for the engine failure."

    I've gone both ways on this argument.

    When BMW introduced the E46 3-series for MY1999 with oil change services every 15K miles (on average) or 1-year intervals, I was skeptical. My initial thoughts were:

    1) BMW is attempting to reduce their costs for their factory scheduled maintenance program.

    2) Hey, the drivetrain warranty is only 50K miles! How much risk is BMW taking??

    After talking with several service advisors/technicians, as well as reading articles and info within forums such as this one, I have since taken a more "neutral" view. If I remember correctly, other European manufacturers also went to a similar oil change service schedule, such as Mercedes.

    Another point is the BMW CPO warranty. Most BMWs that are returned to the dealer, via trade-ins or lease returns, typically become Certified Pre-Owned vehicles with 100K/6yr warranty coverage from their in-service date. If the standard maintenance program was risky or problematic, I doubt BMW would be willing to warranty all the major components for a full 100K miles.

    As for me, I don't plan on keeping my car past 100K miles. Therefore, with the CPO warranty, I am not worrying about performing additional oil changes. I'll keep to the standard BMW maintenance program. However, I suspect I would consider a 2x normal service interval, such as every 7500 miles, if I purchased it new and planned to keep it well beyond 100K miles. Just my $.02.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Changing oil at 15,000 mile intervals will not cause an immediate catastrophic engine failure. It will cause premature wear and loss of performance over time - which you probably won't detect until more than 100K miles. Most people are happy with BMW's maintenance coverage because they don't plan to keep the car that long - heaven forbid that Buffy should have to open the hood and touch some icky engine thingy!

    "A mix between KMart and BMW?" So, because you own a BMW, you should spend $200 for an oil change? Thanks, but I think I'll stick with $30.

    I didn't include the cost of a filter because, although you may want to run your oil for 15,000 miles, I couldn't conceive of you not doing at least one interim filter change. And what's up with your "disposal fee?" Don't you know that most auto parts stores accept used motor oil for no charge?

    I wish you lived near me. I'd change your oil for $125 - you save $85, and I make $85 (not bad for 1/2 hours work)!

    Call it DSC, STC, VSA, ESC or whatever you want. Whether you drive a BMW or a Buick, it works the same way. Here's a quote from the company (Bosch) that makes it for BMW, Volvo, Toyota, Buick, Mercedes, Subaru, etc...

    "ESC incorporates anti-lock brakes and traction control but goes a step further."

    http://www.bosch.us/content/language1/html/734_2240.htm
  • saablcpsaablcp Posts: 195
    My suggestion is to mostly disregard NHTSA's crash test ratings.Their testing methods are outdated and not stringent enough,hence the abundance of 5 star rated cars.Much more demanding standards are used by I.I.H.S.,The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety.They use the much more demanding frontal off-set collision.a side impact that simulates an SUV hitting the car and rates rear end collision /whiplash protection.If you consult their test results you will see that the Saab 9-3 has a much higher safety rating than either the BMW or the Acura(either TL or TSX).As a matter of fact it rates higher than any competing sport sedan ,Euro or Asian with the sole exception being the Audi A-4,which shares the same triple "BEST PICK" Gold level rating.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    No doubt the Saab is a safe car (it is born from jets, after all :P ).

    Looking at the IIHS test measurements, it looks like the BMW has much better numbers though.

    I don't know if I would "disregard" the NHTSA's ratings. They are obtained with different tests, but they are no less valid.

    Do you know the difference between the how the NHTSA and IIHS conduct their Side Impact tests?
  • saablcpsaablcp Posts: 195
    where are you looking on the IIHS website? IIHS vehicle ratings have the 3 series as G(good) front off-set collision,G for side impact,and depending on seat option either A(acceptable)or P(poor).The 9-3 is given G(good) across the board and because the scores were substantially above the basic G rating standards was then given a 2007 "Best Safety Pick" rating along with,as I previously mentioned,the Audi A-4.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Yes, I clicked the link for "technical measurements" and compared the measurements...

    http://www.iihs.org/ratings/datatables.aspx?class=15&type=f

    It appears the BMW is significantly better than the others (though they don't appear to have observed the major B Pillar intrusion that NHTSA noted).

    Personally, I don't put much thought into crash test scores. I figure the tests are so standardized, that any manufacturer can build a car to "exceed the standard" and still cut corners elsewhere in the structure.
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