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Crossover SUV Comparison

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  • vad1819vad1819 Posts: 309
    have you read the only last part of my post? .

    i said early: "So, I agreed with early post of someone, the sales showing a popularity of the product. In the most case “most sales’ = BEST."
  • and if you read any of my posts you'll find I disagree...

    if you want to review my thoughts on the matter read any of my other posts as I'm not going there again.
  • vad1819vad1819 Posts: 309
    I'm ok with that. The people who trying make a decision between CX-9 or Acadia will have two or more different opinions.
    The real Q is a Full size (Tahoe, Explorer and ect) or CUV (GM lambdas, CX-9, Highlander and ect.). The mpg in both cases almost same, the difference 1-3 mpg.
    The size almost same, AWD vs 4WD (what's better), both case have comfort seats, but ride different, full size SUV almost same as CX-9 (stiff).
    what do you chose?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    This is just my humble opinion, and by the way, this has probably been the most civil debate ever on this thread so far, so let's keep it that way...

    1. 21/22 mpg is with 2WD. 4WD is something like 20/20, good for city, but not highway. Why is that important? Because these are trip cars. Families will go on long trips on the highway, while hybrids thrive in the city. I don't see a lot of Tahoes in urban environments like Washington, DC, they're too big to manuever and park.

    2. At over $50 grand for 4WD, you could buy an Enclave and a Chevy Malibu, and have both of my picks for NACOTY winners. :D

    3. That price point pushes it in to full-on luxury territory, where car mags like C&D will disqualify them (they have a price limit for their 10Best). Remember, these car mags are the ones voting, not us.

    4. No indy rear suspension. And, what volvov mentioned above...

    5. 3rd row doesn't fold flat, in fact it has to be removed completely. There also isn't a foot well for 3rd row passengers. So it loses big points in convenience and comfort for people, which is sort of the point of these CUVs.

    I happen to find the front seats phenomenal, love the interior design/dash, admit it's twice as capable of heavy duty jobs as any CUV, but it's still a brute underneath it all.

    Mostly, though, it comes down to price. Spending over $50 grand on a 4WD to save a little on gas is kinda pointless.

    If they discount it and/or get the price down, it would steal many CUV sales.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    in consideration of curb weights from 4-5k lbs so searching for something more than that in any of these I find rather moot exercise

    I was trying to make that point in a debate with albook, why didn't you chime in then?

    To be fair, even in this class we see a fairly wide spread in terms of cornering grip. I believe C&D got 0.87 gs for the MDX and only 0.72gs from their last RX.

    Just make sure junior is belted in properly. ;)
  • add weight reduction to improve on/off road performance to that as well as even better mpg while maintaining tow rating and suddenly there is little reason for the CUV market... but I said that a few posts ago.

    I also find your tahoe not seen around dc(i'll expand that to urban centers) more than a little inaccurate. the large format SUV has replaced the town car in cities. I live in chicago and see it and just spent a week in NYC at t'giving(and travel to others) and see them as more and more prevelant for car services. customers I suspect feel more safe, they are similar to a police inteceptor crown vic/town car mpg so that's a wash, drivers sit up higher than the traffic around them and let's not forget the most important part...image.

    the problem with being "green" now is that it's expensive to do it properly, it's predominantly a marketing/image thing that is "in" illustrated effectively by the $50k price tag on the tahoe. You'll know when society fully embraces the idea about being "green" when EVERYONE can afford to do it as opposed to the gentrified system that is in place presently from food to cars to buildings. give us a $10-15k hybrid vehicle a family of 4/5 can use and afford and then you can tell me you are truly making efforts to embrace the idea of being "green". And don't even get me started on the building costs of being "green"... but I digress
  • sorry for not chiming in but I have made those points exactly long ago if you want to review some of my posts from days long gone by.

    and as for securely fastened my daughter loves her recaro child seat that is far as I'm concerned is the best child seat on the planet.(shameless plug - http://www.recarochildseat.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=959&;) Only car seat that has been tested for side impacts.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, I do see a lot of Tahoe and Suburban fleets. Here in DC they're used to escort heads of state, not just the President but also the VP, foreign leaders, etc.

    I'm 5 blocks from the White House on Pennsylvania Ave so we see that a lot.

    HILARIOUS. One just drove by.

    OK, the fleet was led be several motorcylce cops (they block traffic on the cross streets), then two Town Cars, then a Suburban, then a couple more motorcycle cops.

    My guess is Bush was in one of the Town Cars. ;)

    The other Town Car was a decoy. The Suburban is probably filled with Secret Service and all their guns. :D

    Any how, while those do stand out considerably, in terms of sheer numbers they represent only a tiny fraction of the automobiles driven in and around DC. In my entire parking garage there are 2 trucks, one full-size pickup and one full-size SUV. Everything else is mid-size or smaller, or a car.

    I agree about the "image" part, 100%.

    In NY nobody drives, just taxis and car services, like you said, so perhaps there are more.

    DC is different - definitely a LOT of commuter cars, I bet less than 1% are full-size trucks/SUVs.

    Any how, back to the Tahoe Hybrid and the NACOTY award, I'm not so sure that fleet use will compell automotive editors to vote for a vehicle, in fact that might even have the opposite effect.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    OK, my digital camera is charged up. Next time I see one of those fleets I'll try to snap a picture. I have a pretty clear view of Pennsylvania Ave from my office.
  • thought you were in brazil...LOL

    or are you just trying to throw us off the trail
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,857
    So what do you all think of the 09 Pilot?

    I eagerly await it having had at least only Honda in the fleet for the past 16 years. The current Pilot is looking tired IMHO and if the new one grows just a little bit and gets less trucky styling, we'll check it out.

    We're considering getting a CUV to replace the Odyssey and my wife loves the Honda. I went to the Boston auto show a couple of weeks ago to check them all out.

    My test is how tough and tight the 3rd row is for someone my size - about 5-10 - to get in the back. Yes I won't be riding back there but I have a 10 YO boy and he and his friends aren't getting any smaller. The clear winners to me were:

    the Lamda triplets - well made as well but to me huge on the outside
    the CX-9 but the exterior doesn't appeal to me
    the Veracruz - Hyundai is stepped up it's game.

    The Highlander is pretty nice as well although tight in the back.

    I checked out the Tribeca, XC90, Taurus X and Pilot - nothing new in those.

    The Ford Flex was on display but I couldn't get near it - will check it out in person when it arrives.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I'm from Brazil, but live in MD and commute to DC. I put Brazil in my profile because of those little flags that would show up (which I no longer see...too bad).

    Any how, our big car stays in the suburbs, where it belongs, and I commute in a tiny little Miata. Small cars make more sense to me in the urban jungle. Better mileage, easier to park, easy to manuever, more fun, space isn't wasted, etc.

    There's no doubt that cars tend to be smaller in the city, bigger in the suburbs, and HUGE when you get to rural areas. At least that's how it is around here.

    I do think the hybrid Tahoe would work for fleets. I don't envision a lot of private consumers buying them for a city commute to DC, however.

    Given this is a political town, you can't throw a rock without hitting a Prius, and when it ricochets off it'll probably hit another Prius. :D
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Check out the Edmunds blog about it...the styling is actually more trucky, macho even.

    It'll be interesting to see what Honda does with it. Will it get bigger, or stay (relatively) small? More car-like, or more truck-capable?
  • pilot rendering I saw has a lot of dodge overdoneness in it...

    sheetmetal will tell the tale though
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    True. Honda's sketches tend to be greatly exaggerated.

    We have to stop agreeing. It feels awkward. :D

    Here is the blog entry for the new Pilot:

    http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/3916

    I see influence from the last-generation Jeep Grand Cherokee.
  • thank albook for taking the heat this week
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,857
    ...the styling is actually more trucky, macho even.

    I guess what I meant by less trucky is the square overall shape of the current. The new nose is stronger but the overall styling is rounder IMHO.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I see what you mean. It is more curvaceous.

    Of course, that's just the sketch. Honda always makes those look great.

    Check out the roofline on the sketch of an Accord coupe:

    image

    So imagine that Pilot sketch above watered down just as much.
  • the sketch is the easy part... making it ready for manufacture, compliant and at a given price point is where the tough work comes in..
  • the fleet you speak of always has one of these bad boys with it:
    minigun
  • vad1819vad1819 Posts: 309
    Thanks. Good clips. Honda will look like MDX.
    ">
  • skausskaus Posts: 11
    Hi All
    Yesterday I was 95 miles from home and I had a transmission leak from the filter.
    I lost 3 qts of oil. I replaced the filter and put 3 qts back . The reason I looked under the hood was 2 fold. I kept stalling at my destination and the ABS light was on. The engine would stall only if I applied the brake pedal.

    Six hrs later in panic mode ,having to drive 85 miles back home I found 1 solution.
    Remove fuse from brake and I made it home. If I but the fuse back in and press the brake pedal the engine will die .

    Okay my transmission was soaked with oil. I cleaned off all oil. I checked the wiring harness and it was clean .

    **In front of transmission are 2 sensors or switches.
    If I look at wiring diagram it shows Brake transmission safety interlock ,Brake sense switch and stop light switch all in series. Could one of these be my problem?
    Another thing when I step on brake pedal the dash board left and right signals light up dimly .
    Please let me know what you think. Thanks
  • take it to a mechanic...seems like your post may be better served in another forum. good luck
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,858
    Yeah, I would copy/paste that post over in the Transmission Traumas? discussion, Skaus. Good luck with it!

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • albookalbook Posts: 1,282
    The other irony I find around these CUV's are the 19/20" rims that imply performance and all they do is degrade ride and add weight exactly where you don't want it in light of vanity. I don't think they upgrade the brakes either in light of the additional weight so all this implied upgraded performance more often than not comes at a perfomance penalty and actually costs you more money for the privilege.

    Oh well- if your in the market for a CUV you're already paying more for a vehicle that is smaller and less spacious than a minivan for performance only a little better. You wanted a better looking vehicle, why not add a little more flash.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    Given this is a political town, you can't throw a rock without hitting a Prius, and when it ricochets off it'll probably hit another Prius.

    Not that was funny juice!

    I'm glad you pointed out that sketch of the Accord coupe. I've always thought Honda did a great job, at least recently, of hyping up their new models with those awesome looking sketches then delivering a ho-hum production version. The Accord concepts and sketches looked fantastic, but the production version is awkward looking IMO. I hated the last gen but I'm starting to think it was better proportioned than the new one.

    The next Pilot will come out just when we're ready to lease again but I fear it will be terrible looking, agian IMO, too. If it has a strange front end like the CR-V or MDX then they can keep it and I'll go elsewhere.
  • vad1819vad1819 Posts: 309
    "I fear it will be terrible looking, agian IMO, too. If it has a strange front end like the CR-V or MDX then they can keep it and I'll go elsewhere."

    From spy pictures is looking not bad. The front end look like Pilot now , rear and shape of the roof like MDX.
  • vad1819vad1819 Posts: 309
    "Oh well- if your in the market for a CUV you're already paying more for a vehicle that is smaller and less spacious than a minivan for performance only a little better. You wanted a better looking vehicle, why not add a little more flash."

    This is statement absolutely no make sense, and more important from person, who's defending CX-9. From your statement followed next, that the all luxury car is just a flash. But guess what, if the following your statement, that people who lives in the big houses is also flash. Oh well, let's move to apartment. Why not?
    I've always couldn't understand why people who can't afforded saying a such thing.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    From spy pictures is looking not bad. The front end look like Pilot now , rear and shape of the roof like MDX.

    If you are referring to the spy pics Edmunds and a host of other car sites posted a few months ago then I don't agree with your assessment. Those were at night and were showing a Ridgeline grille (which would be a big mistake IMO) and a somewhat different roofline and greenhouse. Maybe it was more MDX-like, I can't really remember but nevertheless, Honda's SUV/CUV grilles have not been pretty as of late. Having said that, if the production version of the next Pilot looks like what we've seen in the spy pics then it will definitely not look like the sketch we've all see which proves mine and juice's point.
  • We just wrapped up a month in our new Enclave, and it is an awesome vehicle. Great in snow, and the heated windshield wash is a saviour in the ice.
    It is much bigger than our BMW X-5 we traded in and the kids love the room, especially the 3rd row. This is the new family car that reminds me of the big wagons my parents had in the 70s. It is great for trips. We can't wait to take a really long trip next summer.
    As an added benefit, we get so many compliments on it. Never happened with the X-5.
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