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Crossover SUV Comparison

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Comments

  • freealfasfreealfas Posts: 652
    "There are definitely several FS owners who have been fooled into thinking it's a real CUV"

    as opposed to several fools who think it's not.(just an innocent witty play on words as opposed to being intended as an outright insult)

    I find this debate comical. I also would like to pose the question to the naysayers of T-reX/FS CUV status. You all freely consider the cx9 a card carrying member of the cuv club but it has a less useful third row by a long shot, gets poorer mileage, and less cargo area. using your own(loosely termed because there is so little) logic I'd argue it's nothing more than a tall "wagon" as well. the crux of your perception seems to lie in the fact it is based on the 500/Taurus platform hence it can't possibly be a CUV. I have yet to hear a thoughtful & rational explanation as to the "thinking" on this as opposed to blatant opinion.

    as for wagon being a "new bad word" in the "industry"(there you go again you insider you with your finger on the pulse of all that is automotive) the "wagon' really hasn't been "in" for quite some time and surprisingly so considering how much more competent they are than SUV/CUV's with little sacrifice in space depending on what you are comparing. They also make so much more sense than the sedan counterparts, the europeans really embrace them as opposed to here, again, not sure why, maybe they are on to something???

    BTW, can you PLEASE stop forcing you OPINION on the rest of us that the FS/T-reX is "just a station wagon"... if it walks like a duck, acts like a duck, quacks like a duck, ....hmmmmm... must be a duck...

    wondered what took me so long... didn't you???
  • albookalbook Posts: 1,282
    True, Honda has a good minivan, but they are also smart. They follow the big market trends. They see that the new big thing is the CUV. Actually they saw it in 2003 when they brought the original Pilot out. The market for CUVs wasn't as big though, so they had to tailor to some of the needs of SUV owners. That's why the styling is trucky.
  • albookalbook Posts: 1,282
    Honda has been tightlipped on the new Pilot, so it's impossible to know if it will be better or worse than the new crop of crossovers. If it offers the same tech packages as the MDX and as much interior room as the Acadia, then you might have a winner.

    It will have the Acura's toys, but it won't have the size of the Acadia. They already have a minivan, so they don't need a CUV as big as one. Plus, buyers are use to that size Pilot, s Honda probably won't let it grow too much.
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    You who are very concerned about mpg should know that rooftop carrying luggage can cut down tremendously on mileage. I'd much rather have my things with me inside the car.

    That's true, but the TX has greater than or equal to luggage space behind the 3rd row as the Acadia. The space behind the 3rd row of the TX is like a minivan, which has a well about a foot deep to hold the 3rd row when it's folded back. Plus there's a few more CuFt under the 3rd row that you can access when the 3rd row is up, which is about equal to what's under the Acadia's cargo area under its floor. That's why originally the Freestyle was listed as having 21CuFt behind the 3rd row, because it includes the well area and since there's nothing covering it up, it really is useful for tall luggage.

    Granted you could fold 1/3 of the Acadia's 3rd row for added luggage space, but it would be a tight squeeze to have two adults in the 2/3 portion of the Acadia's 3rd row.

    Plus if once a year I need to put a few things on the roof, the MPG lost there is more than made up by the better MPG the rest of the year.
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    But you only really lose about 2 inches in the second row, and the third row is still much more comfortable than in the TX.

    So you can slide the 2nd row up 2 inches to make the TX equal to the Acadia's 2nd row, and then you'll have 35 inches of legroom in the 3rd row of the TX as compared to the Acadia's 33 inches, so how is the Acadia's 3rd row more comfortable with 2 inches less legroom? Again, unless you have a requirement to squeeze three people back there. For two adults, I'd rather have the extra 2" legroom that each passenger back there can use, than a few inches more width that's not necessary since in the TX, 2 adults won't be touching shoulders anyway.
  • volkovvolkov Posts: 1,302
    IIHS may allow manufacturers to crash at their own facility as per their protocol and submit all data and documentation if it's a refresh. They review same and re-assign ratings as required if they are satisfied with the testing. New vehicles are only crash tested on site.
  • volkovvolkov Posts: 1,302
    For seating 2, I found the rear in the TX better. Must be body proportion/shape.
  • albookalbook Posts: 1,282
    as opposed to several fools who think it's not.(just an innocent witty play on words as opposed to being intended as an outright insult)

    He's back.

    I find this debate comical. I also would like to pose the question to the naysayers of T-reX/FS CUV status.

    If you really like the FS/TX you should be concerned about the truth, not perception- as someone else said. You should be concerned with the fact that the FS is a versatile spacious wagon, not that it tries to act like an SUV. And the CX-9 is very much a CUV. There is no rule that says a CUV is only a CUV if it has a large third row. And it has more cargo space than the TX (let's get our facts straight now).

    I have yet to hear a thoughtful & rational explanation as to the "thinking" on this as opposed to blatant opinion.

    Well. since you've obviously been listening to others blatantly oppinionated statements(i haven't made any about why the TX is a wagon), here are some real ones. I has carlike ground clearance..It doesn't really sit up high, and is shorter than most CUVs. This is just my oppinion here, but there is nothing the FS/TX has that a conventional wagon doesn't have.Third row? Wagons have it. All wheel drive? Wagons have it.Carlike groundclearance? Wagons have it. Heck, Ford just might have been feeling so, as they decided not to differentiate the FS from the 500 anymore, and called both the Taurus! The hiegt difference is only about 5 inches between the two.I think that's about all the logic there is. But then, I think that is enough.

    there you go again you insider you with your finger on the pulse of all that is automotive

    I know. If I keep letting out all these secrets I'm going to get into trouble.

    the "wagon' really hasn't been "in" for quite some time and surprisingly so considering how much more competent they are than SUV/CUV's with little sacrifice in space depending on what you are comparing

    How do you know wagon has been "out" for a long time now? There are about 50% less wagons now then there were in 2005 made by American auto makers. But I never said anything about the actual vehicle being out of style. I was refering to the name "Station Wagon". I can't think of one station wagon on the market today called station wagon. The now deceased magnum was exactly a station wagon, no doubt. But they called it a "Sports Tourer." DOn't forget 5 door, and Sport Combi. Why are CUVs doing better? People like to sit up above the road.It's command seating. Also, they give more cargo space.

    BTW, can you PLEASE stop forcing you OPINION on the rest of us that the FS/T-reX is "just a station wagon"...

    You must be referring to the fact that I have said that in many responsess to others lately, because I haven't forced my oppinion that the TX is a wagon on anyone.I've jsut said what I think.

    if it walks like a duck, acts like a duck, quacks like a duck

    Not true. The Touureg has SUV towing and gas mileage. SUV, right? Nope. CUV. The TX might walk and quack like a duck, but it doesn't act like one. No high ground clearance. But that doesn'tmatter. The TX has other virtues. being SUV like isn't one of them.

    wondered what took me so long... didn't you???

    The break was nice- but I'm always ready for game time.
  • albookalbook Posts: 1,282
    So you can slide the 2nd row up 2 inches to make the TX equal to the Acadia's 2nd row, and then you'll have 35 inches of legroom in the 3rd row of the TX as compared to the Acadia's 33 inches

    Perfect! Except for one little detail- the TX's seats don't slide.ALso, it's just as comfortable in both of the second rows. If you don't think so, slide the Acadia's second row back an inch. You'll still have more room in the Acadia's third row.

    For two adults, I'd rather have the extra 2" legroom that each passenger back there can use, than a few inches more width that's not necessary since in the TX, 2 adults won't be touching shoulders anyway.

    Oh- they'll be touching shoulders in the TX.The Acadia is especially nicer if you only have to seat 6. There is more leg, and should room.
  • albookalbook Posts: 1,282
    but I imagine that for folks with extra personal width, extra car width would be a benefit

    So I'm fat now? I see we've got jokes. :)

    To me, that's an advantage to the TX, since not being so wide makes it easier to maneuver, better in parking lots, entering my single car garage door, etc...I don't consider extra exterior width an advantage when I don't need the added interior width to meet my needs

    Well the Acadia doesn't handle much bigger than the TX, and manuvering isn't any worse. Also, the TX is much less space efficient with it's width. It's narrow inside. I'd like to have the leg room and the width, and the Acadia give you this.
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    Perfect! Except for one little detail- the TX's seats don't slide.ALso, it's just as comfortable in both of the second rows. If you don't think so, slide the Acadia's second row back an inch. You'll still have more room in the Acadia's third row.

    Incorrect...the 2nd row seats of the TX slide fore and aft. I'm still wondering on the definition of comfort where less legroom equals more comfort?

    And the two adults sitting in the 3rd row of our Freestyle weren't bumping shoulders.
  • albookalbook Posts: 1,282
    Plus if once a year I need to put a few things on the roof, the MPG lost there is more than made up by the better MPG the rest of the year.

    I would definitely llike to have the luxury of keeping my luggage inside the car, and keeping wind noise down.

    That's true, but the TX has greater than or equal to luggage space behind the 3rd row as the Acadia.

    True- by about a cubic foot, but there's not room under that third row for much. So what's really the benefit of having the well? Yes- taller luggage, but the Acadia's floor is wider, and longer.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I'm not picking on you albook (really! :) ), but I actually believe it'll be the other way around. Honda won't be allowed to tread on Acura's toes by getting all of its toys. Instead, the Honda will probably be a little more roomy to compete with the meat of the class.

    Look at the TL versus Accord. The Accord STILL doesn't have things like memory seats and HID headlights, but it got a lot bigger.

    It'll be interesting to see what Honda actually does with it!! :)
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    the CX-9 is very much a CUV. There is no rule that says a CUV is only a CUV if it has a large third row. And it has more cargo space than the TX (let's get our facts straight now).
    Not behind the 3rd row, which is the important one to me when using all 3 rows for people.

    is shorter than most CUVs
    I'm sure you're not talking about the TX, as it's 199 in.

    there is nothing the FS/TX has that a conventional wagon doesn't have.
    And there is nothing the FS/TX has that a CUV doesn't have. A CUV has many definitions, one of which is a cross between car, minivan and SUV, not just a downsized SUV.

    But who cares what the label is...but if you're going to call the TX a station wagon, name me one other station wagon that can hold 7 adults and luggage?
  • vad1819vad1819 Posts: 309
    Ok this real number from Ford and GM website:
    Head room (in.) TX GM
    First row 39.4 40.40
    Second row 39.7 39.30
    Third row 38.6 38.40
    Shoulder room (in.)
    First row 58.5 61.90
    Second row 58 61.10
    Third row 50.8 57.80
    Hip room (in.)
    First row 55.5 57.80
    Second row 56 57.90
    Third row 45.9 48.30
    Leg room (in.)
    First row 40.8 41.30
    Second row 40.4 36.90
    Third row 33.4 33.20
    Behind first row 85.5 116.9
    Behind second row 47 68.9
    Behind third row 15.8 25.5

    So you can see 2 nd row leg room in TX more only, but hip room In Acadia 2 inch more so it makes almost equal. That's it. TX smaller car than Acadia.
    And don't play with numbers. Move back or aft . it's all depends. Acadia has much smother ride and quiter inside. Today is better car then ford. May be Flex will be better.
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    Also, the TX is much less space efficient with it's width.

    How is the TX less space efficient. Effeciency means making the most out of the usable space. In other words, being the biggest on the inside in comparison to the exterior dimensions. Just being big all over does make a vehicle efficient.

    It's narrow inside. I'd like to have the leg room and the width, and the Acadia give you this

    Correction...more width but less legroom.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    At 6'4" 195lbs, I'd take the legroom every time. :)
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,841
    rooftop carrying luggage can cut down tremendously on mileage

    I don't have a rocket box, but I think you're overstating the mpg hit a bit. I drove my unmentionable rig on a 31,000 mile road trip hauling a canoe on top all the way. Canoes have a nice shape to them, but that's still a lot of windage up there. My mpg hit was around 1 mpg, based on my mileage spreadsheet.

    BTW everyone - the nice break is still on - game time is not going to include personal comments. As always, stick to the merits of the cars, and we'll do fine.

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    31,000 miles? You mean 3,100? Or did you drive around the WORLD?
  • volkovvolkov Posts: 1,302
    Was worried everyone would still be in a "too much turkey stupor". This site is nothing if not entertaining. It's great when people emphasize the subtle point I was making without even trying.
    Let me make it obvious. Every CUV is really just an AWD wagon with some minivan interior ergonomics sprinkled in. There is nothing more to the species. It's a marketing term hatched to fool those people who wouldn't be caught dead in a wagon or "the mv-word which must not be spoken". Just in case, we'll add some bulgy sheet metal styling to disguise the truth.
    It's cool with me if you prefer the SUV styling and it's perfectly okay to make vehicle purchase decisions for any emotional reason you choose. Looks, image, cachet, sense of luxury, sporty handling - whatever. Thankfully, many members here have the insight to know why they made their choice. On the other hand, the "My vehicle is a CUV so it's better than your station-wagon or minivan" is patently ridiculous and merely identifies you as a marketing hacks dream.
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    I would definitely llike to have the luxury of keeping my luggage inside the car, and keeping wind noise down.

    Me too...and if you had the Acadia and TX both with their 3rd rows up, you'd get equal or more stuff behind the 3rd row of the TX. Based on your comments, it doesn't sound like you've ever looked behind the 3rd row of a TX to understand what I'm talking about. There's the space under the 3rd row, plus the well behind the 3rd row. But it's easier just to find some photos online then explain it in text.
  • volkovvolkov Posts: 1,302
    If you look, the amount of ground clearance varies quite a bit amongst CUV's. At "carlike" you'd disqualify more than TX.
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    well said...
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,841
    We took a year off to celebrate the Millennium (the epic Quest). More road clearance would have been a plus.

    We're soliciting funds to pay for out next road trip btw - the last one is just about paid off, LOL.

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • albookalbook Posts: 1,282
    Incorrect...the 2nd row seats of the TX slide fore and aft. I'm still wondering on the definition of comfort where less legroom equals more comfort?

    I'll have to check that, because it didn't slide in the FS. FS has more second row leg room in inches than my friends '98 Town and Country, yet his second row seat is more comfortable, because it is taller.

    And the two adults sitting in the 3rd row of our Freestyle weren't bumping shoulders

    My nephew and I sat in the third row and we were touching. I'm pretty big, but he's not fully grown and we were touching.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Honda won't be allowed to tread on Acura's toes by getting all of its toys

    That is because if you want those extra toys, Honda wants you to purchase the higher profit Acura brand to get them. If you can equip a Honda very similar to the Acura counterpart, most everyone would save the extra cash and buy the Honda.

    This is why a company like Mazda offers things like Xenons and memory seats because they do not have a luxury line. They tried to start one in the mid 90's but failed. The Mazda Millenia was to be their first luxury vehicle under their luxury brand name Amati. Lincoln does not count. That is Fords luxury line.

    Remember also, Acura is the American luxury version of Honda. If I am not mistaken, Acura is not sold any where out side North America. Us Americans need a status symbol in our driveway....
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    That is because if you want those extra toys, Honda wants you to purchase the higher profit Acura brand to get them. If you can equip a Honda very similar to the Acura counterpart, most everyone would save the extra cash and buy the Honda.

    This is why a company like Mazda offers things like Xenons and memory seats because they do not have a luxury line. They tried to start one in the mid 90's but failed. The Mazda Millenia was to be their first luxury vehicle under their luxury brand name Amati. Lincoln does not count. That is Fords luxury line.

    Remember also, Acura is the American luxury version of Honda. If I am not mistaken, Acura is not sold any where out side North America. Us Americans need a status symbol in our driveway....


    Everything you've said here is correct, I believe.
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    A lot of posts, but the bottom line is that even if the FS/TX isn't quite as big or has quite as much ground clearance as some of the other CUVs, it can't be dismissed as not being a competitor. Compared to the Acadia the TX is smaller. Compared to a Veracruz or Highlander, the TX is bigger. If size is all that matters, then if you're going to dismiss the TX, then also dismiss the Highlander, Veracruz, Pilot, CX-9, and any other CUV that doesn't match up, but then what is there to talk about ;)
  • albookalbook Posts: 1,282
    Incorrect...the 2nd row seats of the TX slide fore and aft. I'm still wondering on the definition of comfort where less legroom equals more comfort?

    I'll have to check that, because it didn't slide in the FS. FS has more second row leg room in inches than my friends '98 Town and Country, yet his second row seat is more comfortable, because it is taller.

    And the two adults sitting in the 3rd row of our Freestyle weren't bumping shoulders

    My nephew and I sat in the third row and we were touching. I'm pretty big, but he's not fully grown and we were touching.
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