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Crossover SUV Comparison

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Comments

  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    I never got 30mpg with my Freestyle, but over the past 2 years and 44K miles, I average in the low 20's mpg on subarb driving and on highway driving between 25-27mpg at speeds around 70mph.
  • carlitos92carlitos92 Posts: 458
    Hi Victor.
    1. If it ever says *Host* after your name, I'll take your advice under consideration. Otherwise, I thought your chiding was condescending, and frankly, unsolicited. Thanks, but no thanks.

    2. As for my remark, I was trying to add some levity to what I thought was an asinine argument... hence the smiley in my post. :P You may be right: "bigger is better" might well be a common view (although I doubt it's the majority of vehicle buyers that hold it). Personally I think "bigger is better" is a trend that is a symptom of something WRONG with the American market, all the way from how we eat to what we commute in.

    Really, I'm no Michael Moore, but if you read the *entire* thread and others in the SUV category, you'll see some valid points about:
    a) how weight is the enemy of braking, acceleration, handling, and fuel efficiency.
    b) how savvy structural engineering can be just as protective in a collision as sheer mass, and
    c) how two vehicles in the same class and of very similar dimensions can be several hundred pounds apart in weight with absolutely no appreciable benefits going to the flabbier model.

    But hey, it's a free country. If you cling fast to what I consider the decades-old vision of "good 'ol American iron's" solidity equalling value and crashworthiness, you're welcome to do so. ...But I'm also free to point, click, and post as randomly as I like, when I think it's relevant to the topic and that it might spark some meaningful conversation.

    Cheers.
    -c92
  • freealfasfreealfas Posts: 652
    "You do not get 30 mpg in an FS"

    You're right I just saw 31mpg 3 days ago after filling up and driving home at a steady 65mph highway cruise after taking my daughter to the doctor, so yes there are and have been many(read around the posts) FS's that have gotten 30+mpg.
  • arumagearumage Posts: 922
    She was in an accident in it in '97. neither airbag deployed.

    I had an accident in the Cutlass and neither airbag deployed either even though it had been recalled for airbag issues and checked by a dealer. Luckily I wasn't hurt. I don't really like the Acadia or Outlook, but I like the look of the Enclave. It's out of the budget in the near future though.
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    How many miles did you drive to calculate your 31mpg? And I assume you're not basing your 31mpg from the trip computer.
  • dbtdbt Posts: 298
    FWIW, got back from the Minneapolis auto show. They had a Taurus X on the platform (could not enter, and all doors were closed when I was there), but I couldn't see a Freestyle to try out seating & sizes. Asked at the desk, and the Ford guys said Ford decided it did not need to bring the Freestyle to the show (though there were Five Hundreds and Montegos there).

    Guess Ford couldn't spare a Freestyle?
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,423
    Or it might look kind of silly to be touting the "all-new" Taurus X when another vehicle (the Freestyle) sat there looking for all the world like a Taurus X with a different grill.

    Did they have 08 Taurus and Sable sedans on display?
  • loachloach Posts: 246
    Airbags aren't designed to deploy in every accident - only severe accidents. Were either of you hurt in your accidents? If not, I would guess that the accident just wasn't severe enough to merit airbag deployment.

    My airbags didn't deploy in my Pathfinder when I rear-ended somebody in '02 :blush: , nor when my daughter wrapped it around a small tree in '06. Both were minor accidents (if $6000 damage can be considered minor :cry: ) and no one was hurt. Airbag deployment would have been a waste and would have just been more expensive to fix.
  • arumagearumage Posts: 922
    No one was hurt, but I rear ended the lady hard enough to put a crease down the side of her Bravada. I've seen airbags go off for much less. I attributed them not going off to the accident missing the frame rails of my car. With my front end going down under hard braking and her rear end going up under hard braking, I slid right underneath of her. It was about $5k to fix, but parts are bountiful and cheap for the Oldsmobile being that it shared its major parts with several Buick and Chevy models.
  • Local dealer gave me a fantastic trade in on my '06 Mazda3 HB. :surprise: We turned in ours QUICK and are driving a CX-7GT until our new CX-9 comes in. We have a Touring coming from the docks, but are trying to see if we can get one swapped out with another dealer. Also, just an FYI, Harrelson in CLT, NC has a lovely $900 bogus charge added to every car they have. The new Mazda dealer in Rock Hill, SC was so easy to deal with that we won't look elsewhere I'm sure.

    The only thing they did wrong was put us in that GT model. Now my wife wants BU camera and 6 y/o wants talking navigation and I want the Xenon HID lights. Looks like I'm going to be spending about $6k more than I intended :cry: ...
  • Saw an ACADIA and it's rated at around 2MPG higher than the CX-9. It looked nice and had options not offered on the Mazda, but I like the look of the CX-9 better. Personal preference only.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,863
    "You do not get 30 mpg in an FS. My friend has had a LIGHTER 500 for a year or two of highway driving and doesn't get better than 26mpg. Or 19 in the city."

    Excuse me sir, but I am going to ignore this ignorant comment until you drive your own FreeStyle (as I do) between 60 - 65 MPH (highway) and report your MPG. I am the one with the FS, and I do not make up numbers.

    FWIW, I'm not sure if your "friend" has a CVT in that 500.

    If you have some facts to report on the FS, be my guest.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,863
    "compare apples to apples. the FWD acadia is only 500lbs heavier than the freestyle, the awd 700lbs. The new taurus X will be heavier with worse mpg."

    Considering the carrying capacities & etc (everything except towing), I think that these two are pretty much apples to apples. You might also note that I was comparing the FS (not the Taurus X) to the Acadia.

    Where did you get the weight values for Taurus X? The Ford website does not have specs yet. I also have not seen EPA values on the "X" as of yet (please don't refer to the EPA site - it has only "estimates" for 2008 models based on a math formula applied to the 2007 model. We won't know the actual EPA until they are actually tested. The "math" method is useless because the Taurus X will have a new transmission and a new engine).

    However, thank you for making my point. The Acadia is 500 - 700 lbs heavier than the FS. My own experience is that the heavier the car, the more the MPG will suffer off of EPA mileage, especially in the City. It's that pesky physics, you know...
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,863
    "I never got 30mpg with my Freestyle, but over the past 2 years and 44K miles, I average in the low 20's mpg on subarb driving and on highway driving between 25-27mpg at speeds around 70mph."

    Oh, it doesn't happen often with me either. I get 25.5 @ 80 MPH, which has been the speed at which I usually travel. The 30 is only at slower speeds, and I should note it is at higher altitude as well, though everyone on these boards assures me that higher altitude is supposed to mean less MPG.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,863
    "Guess Ford couldn't spare a Freestyle?"

    No, the Freestyle is being replaced by "Taurus X", so there would be no point in having both models there. The auto shows are there to highlight the newer models.
  • tifightertifighter WAPosts: 1,395
    On these mileage numbers bouncing back and forth for the Freestyle, are you guys talking about the 2wd or awd model?

    15 Leaf / 08 RDX

  • arumagearumage Posts: 922
    The Edge has the same drivetrain and gets 18/25 miles per gallon. The 3.5L V6 is also heavier than the 3L V6. Weight is not the only factor in gas mileage either. The agressiveness of the gearing in the transmission, exhaust backpressure, and air intake all play a part in gas mileage as well.
  • freealfasfreealfas Posts: 652
    '05 FWD LTD for 31mpg @ 65mph cruise. It seems any faster than that and the mileage really drops off. BTW I have seen 28+ fully loaded with 4 adults and 3 kids/car seats and a full cargo area with 2 strollers/diaper bags and the like again at a steady 65mph cruise. These are real, not me making them up to make my point what a good job Ford did with this thing.
  • albookalbook Posts: 1,282
    Where did you get the weight values for Taurus X?
    I was talking about the FS! and i was told by the guy showing the taurus X at the Chicago auto show that the taurus X will be heavier with worse MPG. and it makes sense- I mean as you said- bigger engine= worse MPG. I will admit- the FS is light for it's size. But for 500-600 lbs more, it's funny the Acadia handles better, and gets nearly the same MPG. Form what you say, if I drive at 65 mph in an acadia, I'll probably get 29-30 mpg myself. ;) Different cars=different physics equation. Funny isn't it?
  • albookalbook Posts: 1,282
    No, the Freestyle is being replaced by "Taurus X", so there would be no point in having both models there. The auto shows are there to highlight the newer models.
    It was actully a dumb move not having the FS there. They want to showcase the cars they already have. They want to sell cars at auto shows, too. THe only places this doesn't apply is in Detreoit and LA, and New York. And not being able to see the inside of what they want to buy isn't smart. Maybe Ford will start making some smart moves. It might help the sales of their slow moving Freestyle!
  • albookalbook Posts: 1,282
    How do you get 30 mpg? My friend Joe would like to hear from you! he gets 27 at best! I know I don't ride in the car with you, but 31 mpg is a little out there.

    I read a little while back that some guy thinks an Expedition has the best third row seat out there! I hope we all agree that minivans have the best hands down! I had a Grand Caravan for the family and that was real room. No CUV can outdo that presently- though the Acadia is the closest thing. I still didn't get 30 mpg in that, either, and that was a 3900 lbs vehicle.
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,109
    But we're not here to trade insults. Let's stick to the issues and try to be a little more civil. :)

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • nxs138nxs138 Posts: 481
    I had done some research on gas mileage on these forums, and people in the Freestyle Real World MPG forum do report getting 30 mpg when driving under 65 mph. The real dropoff occurs right near 65 mph, where it seems to drop near 27 mpg or lower.

    So in the "real world", with people driving 70 mph or so, you'd probably rarely see 30 mpg, but it does seem possible.
  • dbtdbt Posts: 298
    Did they have 08 Taurus and Sable sedans on display?

    No, the only big display was the 08 Taurus X.

    The problem is simply that car shows are for actually climbing in the vehicles, giving you a chance to try a bunch back-to-back. If something is preproduction, that's one thing, but I doubt anyone who was there shopping CUVs/SUVs like the Pilot, Acadia, CX9 etc that were open and ready to be clumb in, gave the Taurus X more than a casual look. Ford's shooting itself in the foot here.
  • freealfasfreealfas Posts: 652
    "How do you get 30 mpg? My friend Joe would like to hear from you! he gets 27 at best! I know I don't ride in the car with you, but 31 mpg is a little out there.

    I read a little while back that some guy thinks an Expedition has the best third row seat out there! I hope we all agree that minivans have the best hands down! I had a Grand Caravan for the family and that was real room. No CUV can outdo that presently- though the Acadia is the closest thing. I still didn't get 30 mpg in that, either, and that was a 3900 lbs vehicle."

    Buy a FS then and you to can experience what those of us OWNERS are. The fact is I did get the mpg and can do it with regularity with a conscious effort and a light foot.

    Now you are changing topic and retreating now that you want to discuss the 3rd row of the expedition or grand caravan as opposed to being so vehement in you mpg misinformation. Good move on your part as you weren't going to win that one.

    Who cares what we all agree to(or won't...EVER), people around here are befuddled by the attributes of the FS and the fact that in the REAL WORLD there are owners that can get 30+mpg in a package that has usable space behind an occupied third row, gets highest marks for all of the crash and roll over testing, is forward thinking in the fact that they didn't stuff the biggest motor they had in the thing but put their best at the time and attached the very simple and competant CVT to it to maximize its efficiency in a package that is simple and understated in it's design aesthetic(much more successful in monochrome in my opinion as it all comes together as opposed to paint by numbers 2-tone). I just wish the interior materials were a bit better as that is my only real criticism.

    Ford had picked the best from it's corporate parts bins initially and with the '08 has sold it out with the adoption of the 3.5l/6spd for all the simple minded folk that can't wrap their heads around a package that is quite competant in it's current guise because they don't know what a CVT is(piss poor marketing Ford) and a lower hp number(typical american I want more, more, more think because being faster than its competition at introduction is never enough for anyone) and light weight(relatively). Oh yeah and you can get all of this at a price multiple thousands less than msrp and invoice making them significantly cheaper than the competition because people haven't gotten the clue yet.

    Put your dockers on, grab your starbucks and leave your beige development house and go buy the latest hyundai/gmc/saturn/honda/toyota flavor that you will inevitably find flaw with over time just you have with the FS because it was out to market 2 years BEFORE the competition with happy owners. The competition has had 2 years to learn the market that the FS went headlong into making them a little late to the party. Ford's problem is that they have management that didn't know what to do with the segment and now they are walking around with a big spot on their suit pants where they wet themselves for missing a very lucrative and growing market segment and playing to the strengths of the package they introduced initially.

    Is the FS perfect, no, none of them are but you pick your poison and move on.
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Posts: 1,106
    No, the Freestyle is being replaced by "Taurus X", so there would be no point in having both models there. The auto shows are there to highlight the newer models.

    They had a Freestyle at the Houston show. Maybe somebody decided to drive off with it. :D
  • jrocco001jrocco001 Posts: 17
    New Acadia owner...I'm getting about 20 mpg mixed city/highway. Not bad at all for such a big vehicle...I'm sure it will be more on a long highway cycle after the engine breaks in, but don't expect much better in the city. I'm not fond of the transmission - it shifts into higher gears way too soon. I understand there is a recall for this issue to re-program the transmission control module...all the other owners on the discussions boards love it (says it makes driveability and performance much better). I've yet to have it done, but wonder how it will impact real world MPG.

    And...no offense, freealphas...I have nothing against the Freestyle, but you must have the only car out there that does better than its EPA ratings....if you're getting 30 mpg @65mpg then good for you...but frankly I think you need to re-measure that. You're doing better than a 4 cylinder Honda Accord, which is much lighter and more efficient than the FreeStyle.
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    i agree w/ freealphas 100%.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,423
    Actually, there are lots of people who do as well or even better than the EPA numbers. I usually exceeded the EPA numbers, whether I was in my Mazda Millenia or 4 X 4 Ranger or Audi TT or, going back a few years, my Olds Touring Sedan.

    If you notice the tests done in Autoweek, it is not that uncommon to see auto testers (who are not likely to feather the throttle) as often as not meet or come close to the EPA figures. If anything, the EPA numbers, even before the 2008 changes, are conservative for many models. In fact, I doubt I have had a single vehicle that didn't exceed them when the weather and roads and traffic conditions are all good.

    I think part of it is how people drive. If I go 66-70 (which I usually do on the interstates because I like good mileage), absolutely everyone goes flying past me. Why anyone thinks an EPA figure obtained on a cycle going 45 - 55 should approximate anything at 80 is beyond me. Wind resistance effects rise exponentially at higher speeds. The other factor is how loaded down some of these 80 mph missiles are. If you have 4 people are lots of stuff aboard, you're just not going to see high mileage. Same if you weigh 300 lbs (not that there's anything wrong with that, but bigger people come equipped with more mass).
  • freealfasfreealfas Posts: 652
    My mpg is not the only one, look around the posts for the FS and you will see a lot of people agree with what I'm saying and some of them even have the AWD as mine is FWD which has proven more than capable through winter and all.
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