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Comments
I also test drove a Mazda CX-9 GT AWD right after the Veracruz. I like both cars and it's still about a 50/50 toss up between the 2. I like the interior a little better on the Veracruz, especially with the rear ceiling and door pillar vents for A/C and Heat. I didn't like the fact that the CX-9 only has 2 small vents in the center console for the whole 2nd and 3rd row, nothing else. I also don't like that you can't get the DVD with the Moonroof on the CX-9. I did think the CX-9 drove A LOT better than the Veracruz though. The Veracruz was hesitant to downshift for passing while the CX-9 was crisp and felt a lot more sporty to drive.
If you like sporty, go with the CX-9, but if you like Luxury, I'd say the Veracruz is your best bet. I'm waiting a few weeks to make my decision though, as the 08 CX-9 info will be released shortly and this will have the full specs on the new 3.7L Duratec V6 they are putting in all 08 CX-9 models. Also, I am hoping Hyundai makes some changes for their 08 models and includes Bluetooth and Xenon HID, hard to believe they didn't include these options but put in adjustable pedals????
It sounds like the CX-9 needs an aux A/C. The Mazda website indicates that "three zone" a/c is standard, which seems useless if there are no additional vents back there.
Also, do you happen to know the prices of the two vehicles as compared?
The Limited AWD Veracruz with the Ultimate package was around $37K or so. I didn't pay too much attention to this really as I wanted to mainly drive it. I would get the CX-9 on S plan, so it all depends on the options I'd select. Unless Mazda changes the setup to allow the Moonroof with the Rear DVD, I'd only get the Bose/Moonroof package with Towing and some other small options. Navigation is useless until they put hard drive based systems in as you can buy a top end Garmin for $600. I think with options and S plan, the CX-9 would be around $35K or so.
I live in Virginia, so yes, cooling is a necessity as the Humidity near DC is terrible. Even with the beige leather in the CX-9, I feel the 2nd and 3rd rows would get very hot. I'm amazed at what they call a "3 row climate zone" feature, as there are only 2 small vents behind the center console with controls to Heat/Cool the whole 2nd and 3rd row. The Veracruz does not have these vents, as the DVD setup is located there instead. The Veracruz does have B pillar vents for the 2nd Row and 2 sets of Ceiling vents for the 2nd and 3rd rows, very very nice feature, similar to a Minivan. As I've said, the Mazda engineers really screwed up some aspects of the interior on the CX-9.
If the Veracruz had a little more power from it's 3.8L and drove/handled like the CX-9, I'd have my money down on it in a heartbeat. Then again, if Mazda fixed their interior like the Hyundai, it would be a no brainer as well.
It's 3 zone control, not 3 row control. Driver, passenger and middle row. The 3rd row does not have any of its own controls, or it would be 4 zone.
I don't think we will see the 3.8L in the Hyundai bumped up in power until at least the 09 model year as you stated. The engine is new for the Azera, so they probably won't improve on it until another year at least.
I agree that the aftermarket dual DVD screen option in the headrests is the way to go. This is what I would do in the CX-9 since I'd rather have the Moonroof option. What's interesting though, is that my dad's new XC90 has the Dual Headrest DVD screen package as an option from Volvo. It's a very nice unit with dual 7" screens in the headrests and you can play/watch separate things. Very nice option from the factory in my opinion. Mazda should take this setup.
About Vera,
- steering wheel feedback is too artificial, too light
- lack of agility, especially compare w/ Honda/Acura
- tranny hesitation, just very little
Agree, don't understand why they put in a center cooled storage but not HID.
Vera should be offered at le$$.
why???
With a V8 RWD sedan on the way, people will soon not pass out when they see a $40k plus price tag on a Hyundai.
The CX-9 Grand Touring was OK, it is not "upscale" looking inside. The upholstery was bland, and in some areas cheap looking, i.e. headliner. The vehicle is certainly adequate and there is no real reason to dislike it altogether. Unexpectedly my wife didn't like it as much as the Enclave. Go figure, I was surprised. We put an Enclave, which is on order, on hold. My 2 cents worth. :surprise:
TIA, metmdx
- steering wheel feedback is too artificial, too light
- lack of agility, especially compare w/ Honda/Acura
- tranny hesitation, just very little
If you are talking about the Honda Pilot, it is not really agile at all, rather quite the opposite. The Acura MDX, however, does handle quite nice.
1. Outlook has a tan interior option not offered on Acadia
2. Acadia has optional head-up display not offered on Outlook
3. Outlook XR has wood dash accents while Acadia has more brushed metal/chrome look
4. For 2008, Acadia adds a "Crimson Red" color, optional 2nd row center console, and optional backup camera (available only with navigation). I don't know whether 2008 Outlook will also offer these.
I'm sure I'm forgetting something, but otherwise I think pretty much if it's available on Acadia you can get it on Outlook and vice versa.
How well does this work? Any other vehicles have this?
If one gets it, do you ALSO get the standard display, as well? I can foresee certain lighting conditions making the HUD very difficult to read. And I'd hate to be without a standard set of displays if the HUD were to have problems.
Again with bashing other's oppinions. Some just like the look of "DUBS." I do-though I'd never kill my resale and highten the risk on an accident by getting a set. Maybe that young "generation" doesn't have to care about driving a family hauler like the ones on this forum. They don't have to worry much about practicality like you do. It seems you don't really care about looking good. (not a total bad thing, but you shoulf like the car you purchase, and that should include- even if minimal, appearance)
about the crate 502 in the lambda platform to make a CUV that does compete with the vette and haul 7 doing it, are perfectly willing to accept 12mpg and will call it progress... because what we have out there now just isn't enough...
There are some who can afford 12 mpg. I'm guessing you're not one of them. Oh- and about the wheel thing, if you buy the 20's from Ford/ GM/etc. you get safety tested wheels that aren't as good looking, but crash tested.
Unlike my '99 Ody, there is no torque when depressing gas until ... then UMMM... The '99 Ody is extremely responsive with torque in low gear. Make it short, exactly the same as 01-06 MDX.
Excellent feedback and handling boost confidence, and it brings driving fun! Haven't test the current MDX.
Just pointing out the fact the majority do not understand the dynamic affects of what they are doing has on their "ride."
"Some just like the look of "DUBS."
You're right, just don't tell me they are installed for ANY reason other than looks.
"I do-though I'd never kill my resale and highten the risk on an accident by getting a set."
sounds like a profound practical streak tempered by a little "dub" envy perhaps, maybe you can't afford the "dubs" you are here to admire and defend one's right to install unknowingly increasing braking distances while sacrificing ride quality & mpg when more often than not installed on a stock vehicle.
sorry for stooping to your level and making comment on your ability or lack of to afford such frivolousness.
"Maybe that young "generation" doesn't have to care about driving a family hauler like the ones on this forum."
That's why they are typically installed on large SUV's and large family sedans they are driving, your research shows them to have no family or friends to go anywhere with then?
"They don't have to worry much about practicality like you do."
you have no idea what's in my garage, so who's making assumptions and generalizations now.
"It seems you don't really care about looking good. (not a total bad thing"
what makes you think I don't care about the looks of what I drive just because I point out the failings of larger wheels/"dubs" and their focus on strictly looks over performance. I'd argue if you were going to spend the money you would be entitled to improvements on both fronts instead of what some perceive as good looks and poorer and potentially unsafe performance.
"but you shoulf like the car you purchase, and that should include- even if minimal, appearance)"
not arguing with that as this seems to be one of your typical response themes, just don't tell me factory installed wheel upgrades on SUV's/CUV's are for anything other than buyer ego stroking and manufacturer profit and not "increased performance" which is what I was commenting on in an earlier post.
"There are some who can afford 12 mpg. I'm guessing you're not one of them."
guess away, there you go with the hate again, you don't know anything about me as to what I can/can't afford so why even make a comment like that?
"Oh- and about the wheel thing, if you buy the 20's from Ford/ GM/etc. you get safety tested wheels that aren't as good looking, but crash tested."
not sure what point you were trying to make here as safety testing has what role in this argument, none, I would offer?
What you are failing to acknowledge is the fact the average buyer has NO IDEA or understanding that the larger option wheels more often than not will SACRIFICE handling dynamics, ride and potentially mpg when purchased which was my whole point as I was just using the "dub" generation to illustrate the extreme end of the argument of style over perceived substance.
Please, show me some peice of evidence proving this.
you are here to admire and defend one's right to install unknowingly increasing braking distances while sacrificing ride quality & mpg when more often than not installed on a stock vehicle.
IS there a problem with this? Didn't think so.
That's why they are typically installed on large SUV's and large family sedans they are driving, your research shows them to have no family or friends to go anywhere with then?
They aren't installed on family sedans (besides the 300 and Charger). I don't see them put on Accords and Camrys. People put them on old '80's cars, luxo sedans and large SUV's.
you have no idea what's in my garage, so who's making assumptions and generalizations now.
Not assumptions-all I can really do is take a wild guess. Tell me if I'm right- a Freestyle and another vehicle that is gas efficient. Not trying to offend you there- just guessing.
What you are failing to acknowledge is the fact the average buyer has NO IDEA or understanding that the larger option wheels more often than not will SACRIFICE handling dynamics, ride and potentially mpg when purchased which was my whole point as I was just using the "dub" generation to illustrate the extreme end of the argument of style over perceived substance.
What your failing to acknowledge is that you don't have any facts to support this statement that people don't understand what their purchasing. You understand the downsides. Others do too.
How well does this work? Any other vehicles have this?
If one gets it, do you ALSO get the standard display, as well? I can foresee certain lighting conditions making the HUD very difficult to read. And I'd hate to be without a standard set of displays if the HUD were to have problems.
Most people who have it seem to really like it, and I have not heard any complaints about visibility. Yes, you still have all the normal gauges - the HUD is just an add-on. My wife really wants it because she finds that in many cars the most comfortable position for the tilt steering wheel for her blocks the view of the regular speedometer. At $350, it's not that expensive. If one of your drivers doesn't like it, you can always turn it off. There are other GM cars that have offered HUD - if I remember correctly the Pontiac Grand Prix was one of the first.
why???"
I own a FS, so I understand the question.
However, a lot of people only see "3.0L" and "205 HP", and never note that the CVT is more efficient at using those 205 ponies.
But in any case (in my opinion as an owner), the FS is "well powered", not "high powered". The car magazines noted that the FS performed fine, but the engine went straight to redline under full acceleration, which is normal. But car magazines (and most American buyers) are more used to normal power curves, not CVT.
I also own a FS and don't understand the question,
you could indeed have answered his question, he could also be hesitant to buy as he thinks it might blow up after driving it out of the showroom despite having been in production a long time and has had its reliability issues worked out through its production run.
hence I asked, why? so one could answer the actual intent of his question.
With sales slipping each year, I am not surprised that Mazda discontinued the MPV for NA. The CX-9 has taken off wonderfully, with sales meeting Mazda's expectations.
Does a crossover have the capacity of a mini van? No, but, does a mini van offer the drive or a crossover? No. Mazda is a company that is all about the drive. Hence "Zoom-Zoom". A person that is going to buy the CX-9 wants a great drive, with seating for 7, and offering versatility. It is what they set out to do, and they accomplished it.
http://www6.autonet.ca/Spotlight/NewModels/story.cfm?story=/Spotlight/NewModels/2005/10/05/1249863.html
you show me they actually do understand...i.e. we aren't going to agree as I don't give the average buyer as much credit as you do.
"IS there a problem with this? Didn't think so."
maybe someone should be reviewing this as dubs on a 3ton SUV/insert ride here which now has POORER braking performance because the stock system is not buillt for it is a threat to me, my family and you even.
"They aren't installed on family sedans (besides the 300 and Charger). I don't see them put on Accords and Camrys. People put them on old '80's cars, luxo sedans and large SUV's."
you might want to review the european/japanese family sedans and suv's that are also enjoying this style over substance look. Just because you haven't seen them on other types of rides doesn't mean they aren't being put on them.
"What your failing to acknowledge is that you don't have any facts to support this statement that people don't understand what their purchasing. You understand the downsides. Others do too."
You don't have the facts to show me they do either as I never said all of the buyers as I was addressing the average buyer in my comments...i.e. we aren't going to agree on this point either as I just don't give the average buyer as much credit as you do and never will until things start to change away from excess consumption on more fronts than the auto industry.
The average american buying public comprises people that buy shinier, bigger and with more of everything. It's reflected in the vehicles that are in the market and their product path.
It doesn't matter that I can't prove people don't understand. I'm not making shot in dark statement without really knowing the truth. You don't actually know people don't know know DUBS hurt braking performance and safety. You don't know the average buyer doesn't know this.
you might want to review the european/japanese family sedans and suv's that are also enjoying this style over substance look. Just because you haven't seen them on other types of rides doesn't mean they aren't being put on them.
True, that wasn't a factual based statement- sounded like one that might come from you. :P
The average american buying public comprises people that buy shinier, bigger and with more of everything. It's reflected in the vehicles that are in the market and their product path.
Give me some examples of whats wrong with this.
You are right yet again, people willingly and knowingly modify thier car to make it perform to a lesser extent. They make every effort to know full well all the pros & cons before they spend their hard earned money. You see every dub riding SUV/Sedan out there with upgraded brake kits just because the owners want to do the responsible thing and MAKE SURE their cars are modified in an appropriate fashion to take full advantage of 22",24",26", even 30" rims
"You don't know the average buyer doesn't know this."
But I can make a pretty good assumption by looking at all those stock brakes peeking out from behing the stupidly large and unattractive wheels.
You don't know that they do know but you are right yet again albook as I am the ONLY one around here that makes some assumptions around here.
"True, that wasn't a factual based statement- sounded like one that might come from you"
True yet again Albook, EVERYTHING you have ever posted has been fact based. You have never posted anything resembling an opinion.
"Give me some examples of whats wrong with this"
Increased use of resources, increased cost to manufacture and ultimately to the buyer, more stuff = more weight = decreased efficiency, increased complexity leading to increased maintenance running costs, etc., etc..
Vehicle classes size/weight have constanly increased, CAFE standards have hardly budged in years despite all of this influx of technology. Yes cars are safer, yes they pollute less but while focusing on those two important issues efficiency was left out in the cold because gas has been cheap until now. SUV's & Trucks enjoy/ed loopholes in the regulations and continued to grow and become less efficient and now our perception of what is enough is permanently skewed.
How come all of the other automotive markets have a better balance of size/efficiency/power/cost as opposed to the US. Diesels are a viable option there and the technology has flourished producing autos that perform and get great mileage, why not here, oh that's right we have air standards here while there were no special interest lobbies involved with that. No other market has or pretends to have a NEED for a 3 ton SUV for the commute to work or to the corner to get milk. Our piss poor buying habits and arrogance are finally catching up with us, you can either deal with it or keep putting on dubs and watching gas prices go up every time you fill up.
As you(the metaphorical you as to not make this personal) have your head in the sand and have the rest of you that's above ground wrapped in the flag spouting freedom to choose as the basis for one's ability to attain wretched excess ask yourself just how long can it go on.
BTW - can we get past the "emotorcons", I feel like I'm debating with a 12y.o.
Just like people spend 50 grand on a BMW X5 when they can get about the same performance and more horsepower and space from a Mazda CX9 priced 15 grand cheaper. They probably know (assuming)that they can buy the MAzda for a lot less, but they want the bimmer. It works both ways. It's about how you want your car. People can choose now. Are people stupid for paying 26 grand for an FS when they can get a minivan with much more space for a couple thousand less? What are YOU saying about yorself?
But I can make a pretty good assumption by looking at all those stock brakes peeking out from behing the stupidly large and unattractive wheels.
You go off on me for assuming, then do a some yourself. Take a step back and look at your statements. And again with the oppinions. Some like the chrome rims. Just because you don't doesn't mean there is something wrong with having them. You want to talk about Suburbans? They've been around- and been the same size for years. No bigger there- just a constant BIG.
Yes cars are safer, yes they pollute less...
Yes- and did we forget to mention better gas mileage. Take the Freestyle,Acadia, and minivans. They are much larger than minivans, yet get better gas mileage, and minivans, over a foot longer, are often priced thousands less. Are we seeing my point?
As you(the metaphorical you as to not make this personal) have your head in the sand and have the rest of you that's above ground wrapped in the flag spouting freedom to choose as the basis for one's ability to attain wretched excess ask yourself just how long can it go on.
Wow- somebody's a little tense. This is why this forum has the emotorcons- to get people like you to lighten up. And maybe the gov't should make all families by the exact same TOyota Sienna CE minivan, and everybody else? Corollas! And they all have to be white so they don't absorb the sun's heat energy, causing us to use less air conditioning,which after 10,000 years could stop global warming! Everyone's entitled to their choice, and some might think you are making a stupid choice giving up style and flash for a family cruiser. Their opppinion. You've made it clear you have 'em too. Stop using them as fact.
using that logic would make the lambda buyers even less smart considering you are paying considerably more than 26k for one and getting less space than a mini van and less mileage than a FS...
"Just because you don't doesn't mean there is something wrong with having them"
There are quantifiable issues WRONG(fact) with larger and larger wheels being installed when all aspects of installing them are not addressed. Gee why can't I accelerate as fast as I used to, why has my mileage suffered, why can't I stop in the same distance I used to. I don't get it, I just put a set of rims on, why would that be such a problem. Chrome isn't the issue, size and weight are. That has nothing to do with being an opinion.
"But I can make a pretty good assumption by looking at all those stock brakes peeking out from behing the stupidly large and unattractive wheels."
maybe I should have used the words "thoughtful observation" rather than "assumption", I'll try and pick my words more wisely next time.
"Yes- and did we forget to mention better gas mileage. Take the Freestyle,Acadia, and minivans. They are much larger than minivans, yet get better gas mileage, and minivans, over a foot longer, are often priced thousands less. Are we seeing my point?"
I see you are pointless as opposed to seeing your point actually as the minivans have more interior space than the CUV crowd and get comparable mpg so I'm still waiting.
http://www.autos.com/autos/vans/minivans/mpg
I've never argued for you to not buy what you want, all I've argued for is better solutions than what are presently provided by the manufacturers that are being driven by the consumer rather than being innovator's. I'm just a litte perplexed and tired of being told that success and good design leads to a vehicle that is hundreds of pounds heavier, has a bit more interior space, weighs more necessitating the need for more power, costs more and is less fuel efficient. Like I have said in the past, what have you proved.
No I didn't as I mentioned CAFE standards and they have not changed appreciably in about 25 years.
http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/CAFE/FuelEconUpdates/1999/Index.html
Maybe if they had made responsible revisions sooner we'd have a bit less dependance on oil and a little different attitude towards it, different technology available, and maybe even wider diesel acceptance. Instead the lobbyists that the manufacturer's sent to the hill crying that they would cripple the industry if they changed anything won out. It plays a role in why such pitiful mpg standards are perceived as acceptable here in the US by the consumers. Combine that with cheap gas relative to a large portion of the rest of the world and you have the US at its arrogant best.
IMO, this decision stems from the fact that there are big portions of the population served by the following dealers: Chevy, Ford, Toyota. So, GM is trying to cover itself. The basic problem is that GM did not foresee the Trailblazer falling off the map as quick as it did. Ford didn't think the same thing about the Explorer, but at least it has the Edge.
Leaving the low cost option to Saturn leaves a fairly small segment of the country actually serviced by GM's dealers. GMC/Pontiac/Buick are more available, but the Acadia/Enclave are supposed to be at higher price points.
GM is moving in the right direction here. Chevy is turning around fast, and this will help it. Meanwhile, all of the complaints about the plethora of brand names is being addressed by consolidating the GMC/Pontiac/Buick dealers. Soon, it will be (1) Chevy, (2) Saturn, (3) GMC/Pontiac/Buick [with some Hummers thrown in there], and (4) Cadillac [with a bunch of Cadillac/Saab combinations too].