Crossover SUV Comparison

bobw3

Which seat did you measure because the front is adjustable for height, and the 2nd row is higher up then the first row.

[Deleted User]

To keep everything apples to apples, you measure the driver's seat, at the back, in the lowest position.

ateixeira

Thanks for taking the time to take those measures.

My measurements were all with the seats all the way down if they were powered. Manual seats usually aren't height adjustable.

So the numbers can be compared, at least roughly.

Any how, my point that the Freestyle's seats are about as high as my van's is on the mark. The AWD vans actually have higher seats.

No surprise that your loaded FS weighs more than the base models, given all the options on a Limited. 4332 lbs is still a little less than par for the class.

I gotta say, though, I seriously doubt a loaded Outlook weighs 5132 pounds. The brochure says 4700-4955, the latter for an XR AWD.

So much for the 800 lb difference. It would be nice if an Outlook owner could get on a scale, but it's more like 600 lbs.

stmss

Drivers seat. I measured it how I use it. I did not readjust it to get either the highest or lowest number. I prefer seating down at the back, raised at the front.

ateixeira

Same here. That's how you get the best thigh support. :shades:

I had an older Acadia teaser brochure, too, but they don't even list curb weight.

Maybe that many numbers won't fit on a printed page.

nastacio

Just checking on several websites for the MSRP for FWD CUV's with the kids-proof package (leather + DVD.)

TX Limited 2008: $31695
Outlook XR 2008: $32095
CX9 Touring 2008: $34290

Slight advantage for the TX over the Outlook. Somehow Mazda believes its intermediary model commands a $2300+ premium over the competition.

Weak dollar, perhaps?

seloo

Next, you must factor in any incentives and your ability to negotiate a better out the door price before you can make an accurate comparison of these cars. All these cars are pretty good. It is a matter of personal preferences and what you are willing to pay. Good luck!

volkov

No, I am not ressurecting old arguments here. Looking into and at the Rondo and Mazda 5 I did come across 3 Editor comments questioning the safety of rear seat passengers. Looking at the vehicles themselves, there is not much crumple zone room before an inattentive SUV driver plows into the rear seat. When one looks at the Highlander or Santa Fe for example there really isn't any more room between the headrests and the rear glass. The one advantage they offer is a higher bumper to take on some of the impact force. My Altima was rear ended, and my Pathfinder was hit in the rear twice with my wife driving. My wife and I have had no other accidents. I've never seen any objective testing or discussion on this issue. Anyone else? The rear testing done by IIHS only assesses headrests.

nastacio

I am a terrible negotiator, so that I prefer to request quotes on-line and dismiss any invitation to show up at the lot before agreeing on a price.

Our local Buick dealers are the only ones applying high pressure for a visit so far. I guess they may not be used to having a desirable product on the lot.

I have access to the S-plan for Ford, GM, and Mazda.

Saturn and Mazda said they would honor the plan even for the 08' models, but the Buick dealers are playing dumb about the availability for the Enclave ("we need to check and get back to you") even though the GM website lists the S-plan price for it.

stmss

It is a good question but I don't know if you will have much luck. This topic was discussed in the wagon forums years ago as the same questions came up with respect to jump seats in the back of wagons. I think at that time, only MB actually did any rear testing. That certainly may have changed by now given the popularity of 3rd rows and interest in safety.

In any case, since I had my 89 Olds Cutlass bumper put in the back seat by a rear ender I have looked for vehicles where I can sit my 3 kids in the middle row. Both my V70 and FS can do this. The 3rd row is for casual use only to reduce risk. Excessive paranoia - maybe, maybe not but many 3rd rows (some mini vans included) are very close to rear window.

volkov

My recollection had been that the FS had a few more inches of space behind the rear seats. Am I wrong? The Kia, Mz5 and even the Highlander have headrests practically touching the rear glass when extended. The irony was that 2 of the articles said they wouldn't put a child in a car seat back there, but they would probably be the safest. Baby/child seats create almost a crash cage around the occupant. A young child or adult could be crushed between seat and an unyielding seatbelt if the seat was forced forward. A baby would probably be fine in the same situation because the seatbelt holds the child seat, not the occupant. The seat being displaced forward would have to be a worst case scenario and involve serious impact force. I have no idea how likely that would be, but didn't a minivan have rear seat ejection issues in relatively low speed testing years ago?

sssfegy

I would expect to pay more for a safer(still see behind you with screen folded), more advacned DVD system.

ateixeira

Headrests and seats outside of the car, and even then I believe they only test the front seats.

I agree that there would be a concern for the lack of crumple zones when you have the rear head rests nearly touching the rear window.

ateixeira

List prices don't mean much.

Let's see, fitzmall.com sells Mazda at no-haggle prices. You don't want to dicker, no hassle, just walk in and pay the internet price. My family has bought 5 cars there, so I know the prices are for real.

CX9 Tourings start at $32,714. That's even with the moonroof and Bose audio package. MSRP on that one is $34,942.

That dealer group doesn't have a Saturn franchise, though they do have Acadias. Just 1 in stock, loaded to the gills at $43,766. Wow, not much discount off the MSRP of $44,135.

Oddly enough, they have 2 Enclaves with bigger discounts. The cheaper one is $35,224, for one that lists at $38,580.

I didn't expect to see Buicks with the biggest discount, and Acadias with the smallest. I almost would have guessed it would be the other way around.

Note: these aren't comparably equipped. Check the site if you want to see what options are included. I just wanted to list a sample of real-world prices to demonstrate that MSRP is not the best way to compare.

nastacio

For some obscure reason, the sucker here thought that paying invoice for newly launched models or new-year models was a great deal. Cutting into the dealer holdback being a *fantastic* deal.

More of a rhetorical question, but what is the magic behind selling new vehicles for hundreds bellow invoice in the absence of factory incentives?

ateixeira

I try to avoid that whole game. Just give me a bottom line price, and I'll decide what I want.

For my last purchase I even had the dealer calculate an out the door price and showed up with a Cashier's Check for that exact amount, down to the penny.

They didn't even try to play any games. Painless.

saabturboid

"However, if you are going to hit some snow with an FS, 5.1" is the ground clearance you should account for when deciding if you can clear a rough patch, lest you find the bottom of your transmission meeting the white stuff."

As a point of reference I was able to easily drive through 12+ inches of snow during a storm last winter in my '05 AWD Freestyle. I even was able to drive through about 2.5 feet of the white stuff piled at the end of my driveway courtesy of the local city plows. Unless you are driving over massive boulders up the Rubicon Trail then ground clearance is not an issue with the Freestyle and actually helps it handle better due to its lower center of gravity.

- Chad

albook

Why all the controversy on names (mid-sized, full-sized, CUV, SUV, etc)? I guess people feel more comfortable when things are in a category.

I don't think it matters that much either. But it could be important for advertising purposes. Someone might get the wrong idea if they see "The GMC Acadia/ Mazda CX-9. The most capable midsize SUV in its class".

albook

If you don't care about all wheel drive, why not a short wheelbase Dodge Caravan/ T&C. They will give you more seating capacity/ cargo room than any CUV on this forum. And they keep the mini in minivan.

volkov

Was willing to drop AWD for a small vehicle, still prefer it for bigger options. Not happy with Chrysler van crash test results or spotty reliability history.

barnstormer64

So again, the Freestyle does manage to mimick a station wagon and a minivan, but not an SUV.

I've always considered the FS to be more of a cross between station wagon and minivan than anything like an SUV. Other than perhaps a few "styling clues" to convince the clueless that it's an SUV.

britcrlvr

I don't know if you have already but if you haven't don't go yet. can I ask what you are looking to pay? the only reason teh dealer is contacting you is not b/c of the desire to sell their hot product, remember gas prices have increased, and although prices are not as high in some places as others suv sales have slowed, and the enclave is an suv. in other words, if the dealer says 38000 offer 33 over the phone and see if you can go lower at the dealership. So far you have played it well, don't get tricked into the b.s. of the dealership has to earn money. Remember, once you buy you are no longer valuable. So why not think about yourself first use that 5 g somewhere else.

nastacio

I am only afraid the rates will continue to go up. I already got invoice on a couple of 08' models.

albook

Somebody would offer you INVOICE on an '08 Acadia????

nastacio

Yes, I have S-plan through my employer on any Ford/GM/Chrysler subsidiary, which gives me virtually the invoice price.

The GM S-plan had been worthless until the lambdas came out, because their cars tended to go under invoice anyway.

Some dealers ask for a couple of months to deliver the initial batch to customers paying MSRP, but others, like our nearby Saturn and Mazda dealer, honor the plan even on pre-orders for 08 models.

Some 08' Outlooks are already on the lots. Carbon gray looks nice.

chuckhoy

Lucky [non-permissible content removed]. Could you adopt me before my next car purchase?

nastacio

Our three kids could always use the guidance of a (much) older brother, but I take that you were joking :-)

According to [ateixeira], if you leave near the DC area, fitzmall.com will beat S-plan/invoice by a few hundred dollars.

chuckhoy

I live nowhere near that timezone.

albook

Remember, once you buy you are no longer valuable. So why not think about yourself first use that 5 g somewhere else.

Where have you been? You must not own a car. If you did, you'd know that the dealer LOVES you. How else do you explain all the discounts and rebates in your mailbox after two years of ownership?!

murphydog

Host - this poster seems to have made this post in multiple forums - Seems to be a spammer/troll...doesn't that violate the edmunds agreement or something? I saw that it was removed from one forum, but can it be yanked from the rest as well, no need for this garbage IMHO.

Thanks! :shades:

tidester

Thanks, Murph! We're working on it.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

albook

Built a flex on the site today, and the more I see it, the more I like it. I still don't think this vehicle is totally appropriate for the market, It's a cool little (BIG) wagon. It's kind of like bringing back some old fad, like the party vans in the 60's. This is a new way to travel. Awesome interior comfort, new look. An awesome comparo: Flex vs R 350. These are really in the same category (besides the whole luxury thing). There's really one thing I don't like- 37g for a Limited? Ford has lost it. But if they drop the price 3g for a Limited (you can get a loaded Expedtion for that!) they may have a power player.

toomanyfumes

You can wait for the rebates. I thought the Edge was a little pricey, too, but it was a nice vehicle. I wish they had another 4WD CUV. The Escape just isn't as refined or has the features as some other CUV's.

I wanted to buy another Ford but ended up with an Outlander.

albook

You can wait for the rebates.

True (if I was interested). But that's not the point. The objective is to get an equilibrium price- The price is the maximum people are willingly pay for the vehicle. That isn't the case. 37g for a limited is a higher starting price than any topline CUV model in its class. No one will pay 37g for a Ford (save Mustang special buyers). Why are FS prices so low? That's all people will pay for them. Why are MDX prices so high? That's what Acura thinks (THINKS) they can geet out of buyers.

Ford is supposed to come out with a CUV Explorer- but in my oppinion, that's too many crossovers. I think the new Escape is a huge improvement, and a very nicce competitor. iI think it totally competes with any other CUV in its class- very well. You could say that it isn't quite as refined as a CRV, but it's pretty close. And if you want refiniment, go get a Mariner.

joe97

45K loaded

toomanyfumes

Is the Edge/Mariner new for '08? I thought they redid them in 2007. When we drove one we could feel vibrations, wiggling over bumps, etc. I'm assuming from the body-on-frame construction.

joe97

I think you meant Escape/Mariner. And yes they are new for 08MY.

There is no Mercury counterpart of the Edge.

toomanyfumes

Yeah I meant Escape

albook

45K loaded!

Yep- Ford's gone mad. For that price, I might as well go for the R class!

albook

This is one vehicle not commonly discussed on this forum. It does have it's shortcomings (like no third row split bench) but this runnaway hit for Caddy still looks great to me after nearly four model years. I can't wait to see tha remodel because if the 2nd gen. CTS looks that much better than the stellar 1st gen, think what could happen here.

albook

The prices of the Mazda CX9 have dropped tremendously! I've seen them advertised at 24995! About that for the Vera Cruz, too. I wonder does this mean they aren't moving as fast as the two companies had hoped. I can see this as the case for the CX9, as I have seen loaded CX7's (33g worth) advertised at 27g!

joe97

I know Veracruz is selling very well. Most dealers are reporting units staying on the lot for a very few days - last I read was in the single digits. 08MY will be equipped with Navigation so should make it even more attractive than it already is.

baggs32

45K loaded

Whoa guys! We went over this last week. That "Build a Flex" site is strictly a data gathering tool for Ford and they did the same thing with the Fusion and Edge. NOTHING on that site is final and all of it will change including the prices.

One big reason why you can get the price so high is because the option logic is not functional. For example, you can add a moonroof and the Vista Roof. Since the moonroof is included in the price of the Vista Roof you were able to add a $1000+ option that normally wouldn't be allowed if the other is selected. Juice and I pointed out 2 or 3 of these anomolies and there might be more for all we know.

nastacio

39K for entry-level + leather, 3rd row for kids only, cargo space at 70 cu.ft., 16/23 mpg, depreciation that would make an Expedition look good...that new model better look pretty good.

At that price range, we would also need to toss in the Q7, with its 5000 lbs (they only come AWD) and 20 miles per gallon of premium gas.

Let's see, 40K for a loaded Flex vs. 45K for a Q7...that's a tough decision.

[Deleted User]

The 08 Escape/Mariner is greatly improved over the 07. Refinement is what it got, along with better safety equipment and arguably better looks. The 08 has been for sale for several months alongside the 07, so it would be easy to compare them. And no, they are not body on frame. They are unitized like other CUVs.

ateixeira

Not really fair to compare a totally loaded Flex with a stripped Q7.

Plus, the Audi Q7 is pretty small inside. Too small to meet the needs of many folks here, I'd venture to guess.

The Flex' interior looks HUGE!

Realistically, an equipped Q7 will cost you $45k and a similarly equipped Flex will run maybe $32k, even less after haggling.

I guess $37k doesn't scare me any more. Edmunds RAV4 was $33k or so. A loaded Expedition can creep in to the $50s.

Again, though, MSRP is meaningless, and people will pay far less, I bet it'll cost $26-33k.

advequityguy

I've had a couple people try to get out of Q7's lately. Wow. I have never seen any other vehicle quite like that. It has the depreciation of 2 Pontiac Aztecs on crack.

In any case, I would expect pricing to be about $6000 more than a similarly equipped Edge. I think that would put in in line with the rest of the Ford lineup.

advequityguy

You can get a loaded Expedition for 34g?...I take it you havent been Expedition shopping in a LONG time. A fully loaded Expedition can MSRP for well over 50g and actually sell for just under 50g, depending on incentive conditions. Furthermore, a loaded Taurus X can sticker for over 39g, and I'm pretty sure the Flex will sell for more than the Freestyle / Taurus.

albook

Whoa guys! We went over this last week. That "Build a Flex" site is strictly a data gathering tool for Ford and they did the same thing with the Fusion and Edge. NOTHING on that site is final and all of it will change including the prices.

Yeah, well that's the reason I built one. I hope Ford gets the message and drops that price. Forget loaded. As I said before, a Ford trimline starting at 37,000?
NO ONE pays that much for even an Expedition (yes you can argue about sticker, but with Ford, you never pay sticker).

albook

You can get a loaded Expedition for 34g?...I take it you havent been Expedition shopping in a LONG time. A fully loaded Expedition can MSRP for well over 50g and actually sell for just under 50g, depending on incentive conditions. Furthermore, a loaded Taurus X can sticker for over 39g, and I'm pretty sure the Flex will sell for more than the Freestyle / Taurus.

Guess you haven't lookd in the paper lately! No- you can't get an Expy toatally loaded for 34, but you can get an Eddie Bauer with heated leather and DVD for around that. A 50g Expey will sell for 12g less.

TX 39g? Didn't I say Ford's lost it?!