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Comments
You don't generally see lots of big SUVs in Canada simply because they are so expensive. You also don't see lots of expensive luxury cars. Even though the Canadian dollar is on par with the US dollar, cars are still priced much higher. For example, the Acadia starts at $36.5k in Canada (*rip-off*), while the Vue starts at $27k.
Canadians are starting to go across the border to buy cars, but GM has stated it would not honor warranties on cars bought in the USA. I believe there's a lawsuit going on...
In any case, if the Acadia was priced lower in Canada, it would likely be a top seller.
(SUV)body on frame vs. (CUV) unibody construction
Alright, enough for Acadia and CX-9.
How about new coming Ford Flex. It's going good competitor to already exist CUV.
If you look on picture, ford will target Honda Pilot.
As far as "success" that also depends on your definition.
Also depends of the manufacture name. Everyone knows Toyota for reliability, GM for the trucks, Nissan or better say Datsun for the engines, Honda for the handling, Ford - car for everyone (chip), Chrysler/Dodge/ Jeep for off road trucks, Subaru for AWD, and Mazda for Miata.....!!!!
actually, my assessment of your lineup;
toyota = snore and have you read ANYTHING about their quality problems lately or are you to busy posting pro-lambda stuff here???
gm = snore some more short of the zo6
nissan = whatever
honda = overrated
ford = in trouble
chrysler/dodge = over done aesthetics
jeep = selling out trail rated with it's later additions to its product line
subaru = downmarket audi want to be
mazda = incapapable of an original thought
but that's just me...
"seriously", they all make "good" cars, none of them Vad listed make truly exceptional cars...
I know, I know juice, sti's and miata's, both very fun, entertaining and capable. I'd rather have the cars that inspired them than the copies regardless of disparity in performance. nissan has a shot now that it will import it's gt-r but I'd still go porsche/ferrari before I'd ever consider the nissan
I'm actually quite bored with "new" cars actually and find myself enjoying older "classic's".
Original M3's, ur quattro's, alfa's, lancia's, cars of that ilk. If pressed current car's that remotely intrigue me, vw phaeton on the used market is a hugely underrated set of wheels and audi's A8. When I have little/no need to have the ability to haul 7 around anymore I will be moving to a large sedan.
Track days see me in my spider that eventually will see an earlier vintage alfa than my '86 added to the stable.
now that we've gone far afield...
Any way, I like European automakers, but accept VW, none of them adorable.
I would like to have BMW 545i but $60,000 for sedan. It's an insane and overpriced.
It's no reason even consider to open discussion for one of fines crossover from AUDI Q7. I've never gone to dealerships and tested such a cars. It's waisting time for me and salesman. If someone test drove it, tell us what do you think about Q7.
Sorry bud- but I get the rights to that one:
"I think the sales numbers determine the best vehicle out there because, while no one vehicle fits all, the one that fits the needs of most is the one that is the most successful, therefore getting the best sales"
I do contradict myself A BIT, so I'll try to clarify. There is no "best" in the automotive industry- that word doesn't really even exist in the auto world. But there is a most successful. Anyone who contradicts that statment is simply foolish. Which ever vehicle gets the most sales is the most successful. This vehicle best fits the needs of the most consumers, because the most consumers have it in their possesion. This does not mean the vehicle is the best in its class because it may not be the best in all categories- therefore not the winner of all criteria of every buyer's list. The manufacturer has no intention of meeting the needs of all consumers- people are too diverse. So they build a vehicle that suits the needs of a majority of the people.
I'd prefer you not come to some conclusion about what my priorities are as I don't about you. You have only a very limited knowledge of what I value in my transportation in a specific segment of the market.
True- only you can share your personal oppinions, and have done so on several accounts. I think I could almost prove the statement I made about you with one of your own flaming statements from earlier in this forum. But I won't waste my time.
You continue to avoid the basis of your initial thoughts. You contend most sales = best vehicle. I say that is patently incorrect and foolish. You offer manufacturer profits, manufaturer's NOT making the perfect car but max sales as indicators of something that embodies the "best" virtues of a given segment. I offer you are just plain wrong as all that you present to support your point have NO BEARING on a product's ability to do it's job in a manner that allows it to be considered "best".
Get this trough your head: you feel I am wrong in my logic of this area. You have no factual based information to prove I am wrong. You've shown nothing- simply said "you're wrong." "these ideas are foolish".
It's all bark and no bite. I've made my argument. Call me when you've got one of your own.
Enough pissin' with GM dealers, so I went to Saturn (really like Saturn service, from past experience) and test drove the Outlook, well that was it, I knew I didn't want one 'cause they drive like freakin boats! Thought I was driving my Montana! No feel from front-end, too big, boring to drive...just didn't "click" I guess. Amenities like 3rd row access was absolutely awesome (I have 1- 8yr. old & 2- 4yr olds). Needless to say I was disapointed in GM still making cars that drive like, well...GMs .
So, I go check out the MDX, wow, what a car! Really pleased with it, but oh mama, the $$$ asked for these things...a little more than I'm willing to spend...so I try to reach a deal for a demo with 10K km (6K miles) on the clock, well he was out to lunch IMO. All I would get was $2K off for a used '07, Xcuuuzzze me, but It may be an Acura, but it is used! So, on my merry way I go...checking out other brands for 3 row seating, and yes, I'm still glancing at minivans...quick glances, that's all. lol
So, after checking Toyota, Mitsubishi, VW Passat wagon (premium gas? NO WAY!), Subaru etc. , I ended up at Hyundai. Test drove their van and, well, it may be a nice van, it's still a van...BORING. Got my wife in for a test drive and I waited in the showroom while she went out, needless to say, I wasn't excited about getting another van for the next 4-5 years, but we do need transportation for camping, work, sports etc. , so, a roof rack is a must for Thule box, while I waited, I glanced over at the Veracruz and was very impressed with the interior and exterior. I say that for the money, it can't be beat! I looked at all brands, even Subaru and VW. To get AWD, V6 economy, all the safety features that come standard, leather and a very comfortable CUV, at this price and the "reputation" Hyundai has been building over the past years, well, I bought it.
I did have an issue with it stalling sometimes, out of the blue she would just stall and not restart for ±20 minutes, man was I ever pissed off. It was a loose connection under the hood that they found. Even after that, I'm glad I bought it, when I look at others that are in the same segment that cost15% to 25% more...I laugh all the way to the bank. Definitely the best bang for the buck in this class.
Sure, some are more refined (really?), more powerful, more fun, more this and more that, I don't care, 'cause with the $$$ saved, I bought a Triumph Daytona 675 cash! :shades: Now, speaking of power...anyone?? 'cmon, there's gotta be someone out there. hmmm, guess not.
Not only am I smart, I'm also cool!
That's my luck with new things...but that's a whole other story with me and my karma, please, lets not go there, 'cause it's so bad, that it is actually funny! Hell, when the VC started stalling on me I laughed! (seriously, I'm bad with new things, it doesn't matter what it is, bike, car, DVD...you name it, if I buy it new, in the box, it's fcked
Here's my assesment:
Toyota-until recently, have been an extremely reliable company. Everybody has their rainydays.
GM- on the rise back to fame with vehicles like the CTS, Malibu, and heavenly lambdas
Nissan-A japenese motor company with some passion!
Honda-Another well established asian brand
Ford- okay they are screwed, but they have the potential to up
Chysler- they are confused about which way to go, but slowly working it out.
Jeep- an awesome nameplate true to its roots.
Subaru- there is something good about Subaru, but right now I'm staring at a pciture of the Tribeca, so I can't think of any.
Mazda- another Japenese carmaker with ture passion!
All of these are simply wonderful automakers, and it wouldn't be the same without them!
Now thats radical. Ridicoulously radical.
Guess someone should have considered buying used :P ! Congrats on the purchase! Buying the VC wasn't that bad either
Surprisingly, "composition" in literary forums isn't much better than anywhere else! We can just call it "literary license" here. In any case, it's best we stick to discussing cars rather than chiding each other over spelling and grammar.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Do you know VW passat with 4-cyc. engine (premium gas) consumed 30-32 MPG on higway. I use it for every day to work. Everyday commute to work about 22-26 MPG. It depend of the traffic. Do you why VW use premium gas?It's ecology cleaner after burning.
I'd say that manufacturer profit/car makes a car the most successful, not sales. You can sell a million widgets and not take in a dollar profit.
Plus I have no desire to buy the most successful car by your definiation. I want to by the best one based on my needs: safety, driving dynamics, interior space, reliability, MPG, and interior quality at a decent price. I'm willing to pay a couple thousand more to get something better.
In '05 I bought a Freestyle because of the safety, driving dynamics (better than minivan), space (needed 3 rows to hold adults), MPG (getting low to mid 20s average) and value (paid $23,5000). And last year I bought a Honda Fit (interior space, reliability, MPG, all equal or better than competition) because I wanted a 4dr hatchback as our 2nd car.
Now if the majority of the population buy their cars based on styling, then the car with the best style would be the most successful, but I wouldn't want it.
That's true in a sense, but if you think about it, automakers give these large incentitives because their products aren't moving. Best sellers don;t have to offer large incentitives. So the Camry without the incentitives is selling more than the Taurus with them.
Plus I have no desire to buy the most successful car by your definiation. I want to by the best one based on my needs: safety, driving dynamics, interior space, reliability, MPG, and interior quality at a decent price. I'm willing to pay a couple thousand more to get something better.
I never siad you must buy with respect to this philosophy, but it's a possibility that the vehicle that fits your criteria the best might just happen to be the best selling.
Now if the majority of the population buy their cars based on styling, then the car with the best style would be the most successful, but I wouldn't want it.
I don't get what you are saying. If the car that fits your needs most happened to be a good selling vehicle with styling you like, would that cause you not to buy it?
The answer is that the high-compression engine requires high-octane fuel. Lower octane fuel would cause the computer to retard the spark, lowering compression and therefore power output. If the computer did not do this, the engine would "knock."
If you have the extra 30 cents a gallon to spend every day (adding an extra $200 or so assuming 15k mi a year at 24 MPG), go for it. We did the premium thing in one vehicle, right as prices started climbing in the early 2000s. We went back to more economical, regular gas vehicles.
The Federal Trade Commission, in a consumer notice, emphasizes: "(I)n most cases, using a higher-octane gasoline than your owner's manual recommends offers absolutely no benefit. It won't make your car perform better, go faster, get better mileage or run cleaner."
Are you saying VW runs cleaner because it runs on premium? How so?
Yet, the higher octane rating means that the fuel explodes sooner. This means that you get more fuel efficient - as less fuel is needed for the same amount of power.
FALSE! That's what most people think! You couldn't be more wrong.
What higher octane does is actually extend burning time (slower burning). If it wasn't for higher octane, high compression engines actually make gas detonate on its own (detonation)...less efficient, as gas doesn't "light up" or "spark" at the right time!!!
I'm no scientist, but this is a fact, read up on stuff before "quoting" hear-say. To assume makes an [non-permissible content removed] of you & me.
Actually, premium fuel has been found to return less economy than regular in a few different studies, I think.
And by the way, my VC gets almost 20 mpg in 50/50 driving, on regular gas to boot! -that's when I take it easy though!
It's the darn weight that kills these SUVs...
It shouldn't suprise me to see you think you made your argument once you changed and backpeddled from your initial inferences.
"There is no "best" in the automotive industry- that word doesn't really even exist in the auto world"
I guess marketing people are lost on people like you with thought process' like that. You are right yet again, I never see the word "best" used in the lexicon of the automotive universe, not in marketing, not in statistacal and performance comparisons, nope NOT EVER. Here we go again, from all encompassing statements like this it ALMOST makes me think you must be some kind of industry insider with his finger firmly planted on the pulse of the industry but then, like most I apply logic to it and say to myself... nope there is not one person in the automotive industry not trying to be the "best" at something.
(insert space here for Albook to try and prove otherwise to this thesis you offer now)
You actually mean to tell me there is not one manufaturer trying to be best either in sales, performance, mpg, whatever(insert any number of criteria here)... I really don't get what you call logic, well because there is little logic to it when you throw something like that out.
"True- only you can share your personal oppinions, and have done so on several accounts. I think I could almost prove the statement I made about you with one of your own flaming statements from earlier in this forum."
If you prove you know me in any regard I'll never be seen here again to let your vast font of logic to flow freely and unencumbered by a thought counter to yours.
key word here is "might"
If the car that fits your needs most happened to be a good selling vehicle with styling you like, would that cause you not to buy it?
key word here is "if" but sure I would
Higher octane gas does not burn any cleaner then low grade gas, like 87. Higher octane gas just has a higher burn temperature, needed to prevent pre-ignition.
If you want to nitpick, check out vad's posts.. :shades:
If you want to nitpick, check out vad's posts..
We won't do that though. The language barrier is a tough thing to overcome perfectly clearly!
It is tempting to nitpick in my case, since I have a writing/journalism background to pull from as a broadcasting major. I've learned to overlook things though!
... I wouldn't want anybody to nit-pick my skills in math!...
Any way future for Hydrogen Fuel Cell.
I guess I'm more of a "glass half full" type of guy. These are the good old days. The average middle class family can afford a people mover that is both practical and fun (*). You can have your cake and eat it, i.e. space, AWD, power, and reasonable efficiency, at least in many cases.
My dad had an Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser wagon, V8, RWD, 3 rows of seats. That's the equivalent to today's crossovers back then, before Chrysler invented the minivan. Would I rather have one of those? 12mpg, no traction, and car sick kids in the rear facing seats? No thanks!
Nostalgia is over-rated!
Toyota - you snore, yet we should realize lots of people simply want a point-A to point-B car and Toyota seems to be the best at delivering just that. They deserve credit for character-loaded cars like the FJ Cruiser, which has flaws but is anything but boring. Scion also has character, love it or hate it, they certainly polarize you and are not boring.
They'll figure out the glass camshafts in the Tundra V8 and re-program the shift map for the U660E 6EAT and get back on track. In November they just passed Chevrolet so these issue are hardly even a speed bump, they only have themselves to fear.
GM: you mentioned the 'vette, what about the CTS? Cadillac as a whole, actually, is doing well. Aura and now the Malibu have brought them mainstream competence.
Nissan: whatever? These guys are the CVT Kings. I'm surprised you, of all people, would dismiss them. Murano, Rogue, and Altima; and Infiniti is doing even better.
Honda: they're in a great position. They have the highest CAFE average of any automaker, a great clean diesel on the way, the best selling small crossover and a new big one coming. All they need is better PR to take over as the green company, a title Toyota has yet Honda probably deserves more.
Ford: in trouble, yes, but this is one of those "it will get worse before it gets better" scenarios. Crossovers are hot and they have a ton of them. People are actually excited about the Ford Flex. They should have done more for the Escape, IMO.
Chrysler/Dodge: gotta agree with you there, they bet the farm on the Hemi just when oil prices hit record highs. I don't think the new Dodge crossover will be enough to reverse their fortunes. MyGig is neat but they seem to be trying to draw attention away from other weaknesses.
Jeep: again, I agree, the Compass and Patriot sell out the brand for short-term gains. The Trail-Rated Patriot probably should not have gotten that badge. But they needed cars females would buy. Problem is will they buy a 2nd Jeep? I doubt it.
Subaru: here we disagree. They're no longer merely copying Audi, in fact they don't use Torsen or Haldex AWD, so their AWD systems actually have nothing in common with Audi's.
The face-lifted Tribeca is selling well, as is the new Impreza, and the 2009 Forester crossover is around the corner and looks to be the strongest of the 3 by far.
Mazda: not original? Have you seen the RX8? Mazda5 is unique, and even comes with a manual transmission+sliding doors combo. How is that not original? CX7 looks like nothing else. CX9 is about as zoom-zoom as a big crossover can get.
Sure, they thrive on reinventing old ideas, but they make them better than the originals. Miata = MG that doesn't leak oil in your driveway. MazdaSpeed3 = GTI hot hatch, closer to the original than even VW's own GTI Mk V.
Each of these automakers has its strengths, too.
(* - Fun here being relative, i.e. more fun that my dad's station wagon was in the nostalgic 70s/80s)
That's not true, in fact here in MD we get E10 gas, i.e. we get 10% ethanol blended in with all our gas, regular, plus, and premium. All get the same amount, too.
Here in CT we get E10 as well for the winter time. MTBE is no longer used, thanks to the pollution over in CA.
I can't cite studies, but I can give my own experience. I had a 2002 Honda Odyssey, 3.5L. That vehicle delivered 201 HP with regular gas and 210 with premium.
I tested with both, and discovered that it got about 1 - 2 MPG better with premium than with regular. It also had a lot more pickup (the shift points were different as well).
In the end I decided the cost of premium did not cover the slight benefit of MPG. So I only used premium on trips or when I knew I would be needing more pickup.
Huked own fonicks wurkd four mee!
On vehicles tuned for premium they often run higher compression, and the more you compress the fuel, the bigger the bang when it ignites. Regular gas aka low octane fuel can explode too early under too high a compression. That's very bad for your pistons. So you use a more stable fuel aka higher octane with higher compression engines. That let's them either cram more fuel in - increasing power but using more fuel per cycle or they can get more oomph out of the same volume and hence possibly better economy. The issue is whether or not the engine is tuned or can adapt to take advantage of the increased potential of higher octane - premium fuel. The average Regular-burning vehicle can't so it's money down the drain.
The Ody was tuned for premium but could alter timing to run regular - with the drop in power and economy Stevedebi mentions.
That is how the 2008 CX-7's work. You can use regular, even though it's a turbo and has a compression of 9.5:1
That's because people tend to only remember the GOOD parts of the "good ole days", and not the bad. Unfortunately, you can't take the good without the bad.
Edmund's rated all 5 Mazda vehicles is a most wanted. Well, is it pro-Mazda website? Almost same as CR for Toyota and Honda. Nothing better than Mazda doesn't exist in auto market. Mazda is trying harder, but sales show different picture. It's remind me commercial from AVIS- "Just another way we try harder".
I can compare Mazda3 to VW jetta, or Mazda 6 to VW Passat , all these vehicles fun to drive, but VW better vehicle.
You keep bringing VW into the comparison, but never the vehicles that actually belong here.
Edmund's rated all 5 Mazda vehicles is a most wanted. Well, is it pro-Mazda website? Almost same as CR for Toyota and Honda.
Perhaps the "car enthusiast" website's editors preferred the cars which were most fun to drive, something that Mazda is well-known for producing. No... your car didn't win so of course its biased... :sick: I guarantee you, if there was an award for softest ride, most isolated feel, or most interior room, I assure you, no current Mazda would win.
Nothing better than Mazda doesn't exist in auto market.
There's obviously a language barrier here, and I'm not trying to be a jerk when I say this, honestly, but... HUH?