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Honda CR-V Pricing, Supply, Demand and Availability

snoopy21snoopy21 Posts: 114
edited March 6 in Honda
Let's use this discussion area to talk about CR-V pricing, availability, supply, demand, conspiracy theories, etc. so that the Prices Paid & Buying Experiences discussion can stay on-topic.
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Comments

  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    Conspiracy theories? Tell me you're not Fox Mulder and this isn't X-Files. :)

    tidester, host
  • snoopy21snoopy21 Posts: 114
    Conspiracy theories? Tell me you're not Fox Mulder and this isn't X-Files.

    sure! that other discussion has been quite the potpourri lately: 2001 odyssey transmissions (i actually own one myself have had nary a problem with it at 100K miles), MSRP pricing, and honda artificially constraining supply so that buyers have to pay MSRP or higher.
  • feefoefeefoe Posts: 36
    Wake up groupthink.

    The only difference between, "conspiracy" and "business plan" is the presence of mal intent. further blurring the line between the two is that anyone who has ever been on the sh%$ end of a deal might well contend that mal intent existed simply because the other side consciously decided to screw them.

    In case it never dawned on you, the Internet is a huge thorn in the side of corporate manfacturers and anyone else who needs to spend a lot of time and money convincing you to buy something, whether it's a product, or an idea. Much to the dismay of such entities, it allows people to report on products and policies that do not pass muster, thereby affecting sales or compliance.

    If you're too daft to realize that many of the postings on edmunds and elsewhere are shill-driven, I'm afraid that you'll continue to be duped by what is for others an extremely transparent scheme aimed at influencing the masses.

    The saddest thing is that we have less savvy people reading posts by people like isellhondas and assuming that industry people always identify themselves. I think that we would both agree that sans the need for technical breakdowns, the most unbiased, and therefore persuasive statements and/or claims, are obviously those offered by fellow consumers.

    The only problem is that you don't know me or anyone else here from Adam.

    How long did it take for you to create your user I.D.?

    Exactly...

    For all you know, anyone here could work for Honda. Conversely, I could work for a competing car company, and I could log on five minutes from now with a different I.D. and post something either positive or negative, depending on whatever make or model I decided to target.

    Why don't you read up on the practice of hiring online shills before you resort to the regurgitating the "conspiracy theory" pablum that you've been force fed.

    Seriously, try thinking for yourself once in awhile, and if you're incapable of doing so, find a trusted friend who is smarter than you are who will be kind enough to clue you in.

    See:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing

    http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-astroturfing.htm

    http://www.answers.com/topic/astroturfing

    http://trevorcook.typepad.com/weblog/2006/07/pr_bloggers_urg.html

    http://www.escapistmagazine.com/print/62/4
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,817
    Usually that stuff is pretty obvious if you just take a breath and think about it.

    It's like the annual news articles that say "Men's Suits are Back" or "Pearls are the New Fashion Statement" (just saw that one last week). Those are obvious plants by the industry and the media winks because they sell suit or jewelry ads or the reporters are too lazy to write their own stories.

    Feel free to email a host about any posts you think are shill ones and we'll have a pretty good idea if the member is "legit" or not. And we do remove shill posts under the "no soliciting" part of the membership agreement, but they really aren't all that common here.

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • snoopy21snoopy21 Posts: 114
    feefoe,

    for the most part, most of us here at these forums are here to chat about our CR-Vs and seek some advice here or there. so, why all the hostility and sarcasm? (especially your last post to the host on the prices paid forum but, really, to everyone else too) as far as i can tell, you don't own any hondas...heck, it comes across that you hate hondas!

    but, let's just say for a minute that you're right: honda is manipulating their supply of CR-Vs. so now what? people who want one will either pay for one, wait, or buy something else. i don't understanding how your rantings are helping anyone.
  • feefoefeefoe Posts: 36
    I originally responded to a Honda salesman/dealer who was making sweeping generalizations. The guy is a cheerleader, and I just thought that he needed to be checked.

    If you go back through my posts, they all stem from that first encounter. Each subsequent reply was in response to yet another fool or shill who attmepted to dismiss my statements by characterizing them as paranoid conspiracy theories, etc. Sorry folks, but if someone says red and I say blue and they come back and say purple, don't expect me to say purple when I know that it's blue.

    One of my first postings stated that my Accord was the best car that I've ever owned, so no, I'm not a Honda hater.

    As for the CRV, if the differential problem exists, my advice is for everyone to hold of on buying until it comes out in an official statement from Honda. If you believe the statements elsewhere in this forum, such a problem and response from Honda and its dealers would make buying a 2007 CRV foolhardy at best.

    My advice is to wait until it's confirmed or denied, so at leaast you'll know that Honda will address any differential problems without protest and without feigning knowledge.

    In the meantime, holding off, especially if there is a problem, will cause the prices to come down.
  • snoopy21snoopy21 Posts: 114
    okay, fair enough...i understand you better now. yes, there are cheerleaders but i think most people recognize them for what they are and ignore them and/or just dismiss their input. however, the same is true for those that sound like they have an axe to grind. i think a lot of your original message was perhaps lost (at least on me) in the tone of your posts.

    anyway, back to pricing. i suppose that honda's practice of maintaining only a 30-day supply of cars (less than half that maintained by GM and ford) allows honda to not only keep their costs down but to also maintain a higher selling price. i still don't think that's so much for the dealers' benefit as much as it is just good, efficient business practice while helping maintaining the top resale values that hondas enjoy.
  • drtraveldrtravel Posts: 395
    Last month Honda sold 14,390 CR-Vs - an all-time high. By contrast Toyota "only" sold 11,925 RAVs.

    In January 2006 the numbers were 9,325 CR-Vs and 9,382 RAVs sold.
  • I bought my 2007 CRV LX AWD for 21,100. Love the blue pearl color got a good deal and looking forward to the HONDA experience for the next 10 yr with this SUV. I love reading others opinions and stats on this vehicle, nothing more nothing less.
  • Is that out the door?
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    honda artificially constraining supply so that buyers have to pay MSRP or higher.

    So, explain this to me. Honda sells cars at invoice to INDEPENDANTLY OWNED Dealers. The only money Honda sees is from the Invoice pricing.

    How does artificially tightening supply, and dealer's demand from MSRP benefit Honda corporate? What am I missing here?

    The more vehicles Honda sells to dealers (at invoice), more revenues, more profit for Honda. By restricting supply, Honda would sell less vehicle at Invoice to dealers, and will lower its revenues, and profit.

    Whatever dealers choose to charge does not go back to Honda. Please enlighten me.
    Thank you in advance.
  • feefoefeefoe Posts: 36
    You act as though there is no cost or barrier realted to producing whatever number of units Honda chooses to sell. You also act as though Honda dealers have unlimited funds with which to buy stock, and that they can sell off whatever number of units they might be alotted. Making twice as many cars does not make you twice as much profit unless you can keep costs and prices steady, and even if you could sell twice as many cars as you can produce, you can't immediately increase maximum factory output capacity by 100% unless you build or contract twice as many factories, or unless your production mechanism become twice as efficient.

    We know that Honda can manage automobile supply. If demand is low, or CRV's are in high supply everywhere, Honda can idle plants or curtail work shifts to bring supply into line. If demand is low, or CRV's are in high supply in one area of the U.S., Honda can shift distribution to other parts of the country, or even parts of the world where the cars are more likely to sell due to market and/or economic reasons.

    As for all of this talk of Honda not caring what the dealer sells the car for, it is utterly ridiculous. Under the current dealership method of selling cars, Honda needs to keep its dealerships (retailers) in buisiness in order to sell its products. Say for instance that after all holdbacks, rebates, incentives, etc., etc., Honda currently sells CRV's to its dealers at 17K. under this scenario, how long do you think a dealer would continue to buy additional CRV's for 17K if he could only sell them for 17.5K, especially if they were not selling fast enough to avoid excess accrual?

    Here's the deal... If you suddenly have dealerships chock full of CRV's, the price will drop unless the dealership can sell them quickly. There is a saturation point for every product, especially when a large number of alternative products exist (any other automobile that might fit the needs of the user). If the dealers can't make their customary/necessary profit on a particular model, Honda must reduce the cost of that model to dealers through whatever means necessary (manufacturer's rebate, etc.) in order to make sure that their product sells.
  • ccacpccacp Posts: 117
    Just look at what is happening to the Acura RDX, the CR-Vs cousin. Dealer lots are full of them and Honda has been curtailing production. Incentives have not gotten them off dealer lots.
  • feefoefeefoe Posts: 36
    Sorry, I left out (IN CAPS):

    "Honda must reduce the cost of that model to dealers OR CONSUMERS through whatever means necessary (manufacturer's rebate, etc.) in order to make sure that their product sells."
  • It's a balancing act. If Honda does it just right, then the perception that the CRV is THE hot, gotta-have it car, then more people will want it. The more people who want it, the more they sell. If there are too many sitting on the lot, then the perception will be that they are not the hot, gotta-have car (even if they are the top seller). If there are none on the lots, then people will go elsewhere. So Honda wants to keep just enough coming to maintain the "CRAVE" perception going.
  • I'm from the Milwaukee area and about a week and a half ago, all the dealerships in the area received about 10 EXs a piece. There are probably about 100 EXs in the Milwaukee area with the different trims. EX, EX-L and EX-L with nav. Of course, I'm looking for a LX AWD and there are exactly zero in the Milwaukee area right now. We did test drive an EX today since it handles the same as an LX and the dealership said they would be getting three LXs in the color(glacier blue or silver) we want in two weeks. If it was like the EXs, all the dealerships will be getting LXs in two weeks. This makes sense because the autoshow is coming to town and Honda is probably saturating areas where the autoshow is in town.
  • feefoefeefoe Posts: 36
    Does anyone know for sure if the newest EX and EXL arrivals have had their rear differentials replaced before hitting the U.S., and if so, has anyone been successful in bargaining down the price due to the problem with inventory that has already undergone or whcih needs to undergo the repair?

    It seems from reports from another Edmunds forum that a lot of Honda representatives have pleaded ignorance of the problem when asked. I can't imagine that knowledge of such a problem could possibly escape the attention of anybody at any dealership, but I guess that we'll just have to take their word for it.

    A little help here? Maybe a Honda employee or marketing subcontractor on this board can clear up whether this apparent lack of knowledge would be a result of a poor communication between Honda and its dealers, or poor communication between the dealers and their employees.

    Hopefully, all of the new arrivals have been repaired in the factory by Japanese technicians who might be more familiar with the new engineering of the redesigned CRV's powertrain and proper manufacturing specifications than some union mechanic at a local dealership.

    I'm sure that at some point they will all be coming out of the factory without the rear differential problem, but for now, can anybody tell me if there is any way for us to know the exact date when a particular CRV was manufactured? If one could ascertain this, he could at least have a fighting chance at buying one of the CRV's that came out of the factory without the problem.

    I would also hope that those sitting on lots are being repaired before they are sold. I for one would be pretty angry if in a rush to unload inventory, a Honda dealership somehow failed to mention the problem and sold me a CRV with the defect, and then called up after they already had my money in hand to inform me that I needed to make a trip to the dealership in order to have the rear differential replaced.
  • crvme3crvme3 Posts: 140
    Couldn't tell you if the rear differential problem has been addressed/corrected at the factory as of yet. Inside the drivers door on the identification placard you will find the "production date" displayed as a month & year said vehicle was produced. Any dealership (thru VIN identification) should be able to access & tell you the "build date" which will show month/date/year vehicle was produced... Hope this helps you narrow down the differential concern. :)
  • I have a friend who is a salesman at a Honda dealer in NYC and he told me that as far as he's been told, 2WD CR-Vs are built-to-order.

    As for the numbers of CR-Vs that are in dealerships in the NYC area, most of them don't have or just a few (mostly in the EX-L trim). But it really depends on the dealership you go. His dealership only has the demo model on the lot. The CR-Vs which he has sold lately have been ones in a shipment that should arrive sometime this week. He said that the ones that are unsold at the time of delivery are sold pretty quickly afterwards. The 07 CR-Vs are really in demand in the area.
  • lzclzc Posts: 483
    Aren't you making a pretty big leap in logic here, that the problem is widespread and effects all or most CR-Vs? We don't know that, do we?

    On the other hand, these forums contain hundreds of comments from new CR-V owners about many things that have nothing to do with this "problem." It would seem that their differentials are, so far, problem free.

    These forums offer lots of practical information. They also, unfortunately, let people make wild claims, such as "Soon to be Recalled CR-V."

    I own a new CR-V. So far, and try as I have, I can't get the differential to do anything, or sound any way, other than normal. For the few, and it seems to be a very small number, that are having problems, I wish them the best in getting things fixed. But it just may be that dealers know nothing about this problem because it's not much of a problem.
  • Slow down.
    I have been driving my CR-V EX 4WD since 10/03/06 and
    I do not have this differential problem.
  • feefoefeefoe Posts: 36
    I'm not making a big leap in logic at all. Edmunds is not the only place that it's being talked about. You might want to check out hondasuv.com after Googling around for yourself.

    That said, there is no way for me to quantify the scope of the problem, only to quantify the potential scope of my own personal exposure and subsequent aggravation by reading some of the horror stories related by others. The bottom line is that if I'm going to hand over cash for a vehicle, I'm going to minimize the chance that I get stuck with one that is going to give me problems.

    Furthermore, I live in LA, and though I don't know what Honda dealerships generally require in terms of mechanic's qualifications, I do know that many of the mechanics working at other shops across SoCal are not only uncertified, but speak little English as well. I would hope that Honda requires that certified mechanics be used in all Honda dealerships, but even if this is the case, I wouldn't trust the majority of certified American mechanics in the U.S. to do as good of a job on a newly designed CRV's complicated differential as much as I would trust a properly matched and/or installed and/or fluid-bathed differential coming out of a Japanese Honda factory.

    So am I to assume from your question that you think the problem was:

    1. The result of the wrong fluid being placed in some CRV's;

    2. A manufacturing error affecting a limited number of CRV's;

    3. An engineering error resulting in the installation of improperly designed drivetrains in a limited number of CRV's; or

    4. A problem with no known cause that magically disappears after one has the "wrong" fluid (along with the rear differential) replaced?

    As for your differential sounding "normal," are you saying that it sounds like it always has, or that it sounds just like the differential in a properly functioning CRV?

    Again, check out hondasuv.com. Different people have apparently been given different reasons for what seems to be the same problem, so if that sits well with you, great, but as for me, I've never looked good in rose-colored glasses.
  • feefoefeefoe Posts: 36
    I'll take your word for it, and not to be a wiseguy, but two questions please:

    1. Do you live in a warm-weather state; and

    2. How is your hearing acuity and/ot vibrational sensitivity?
  • lzclzc Posts: 483
    Thanks for the link to the other site. It helped reinforce my suspicion that many people are quick to think the worst no matter how little evidence there is to justify such thoughts.

    On the other site, for every person claiming to have a differential problem (I counted 3 after surfing 4-5 subject headings) there were about 20-30, mostly repetitious, posts from people asking and worrying about the problem.

    As to my assumptions, I've made none. I haven't seen enough factual evidence to assume anything, other than possibly a lot of people seem to be worried about something that has, as far as I can tell, effected very few people.

    Meanwhile, Honda continues to sell 15,000 or so CR-Vs each month and I see no evidence of a design or general assembly problem. When there is I will quickly become a believer.
  • feefoefeefoe Posts: 36
    This post will get flagged for being off topic, but you might want to chew on the following... Honda sold Odyssey's for three years (99-2001) with a fatally flawed transmission design, despite the fact that people were having to have them replaced over and over again with (and here's the worst part) identical units which were also destined to go bad in roughly 30K mile increments.

    In addition, many 2002-2004 5 speed units suffered failure of one gear due to lack of lubrication so there was a recall to route oil to this gear. This oil jet recall for some 5-speed automatic transmissions did not address or solve the main cause of breakdown. As in the similar 5 speed transmissions of the Acura TL, Acura CL and MDX, failure of the transmission's third clutch pack, blockage of internal transmission fluid flow by large amounts of clutch debris, and other issues have continued to cause transmission failures even after the oil jet recall.

    I've seen Honda's worst. In addition to its culmination in the form of a terrible trade in offer, the transmission in my nearly 80-year-old father's Odyssey was replaced THREE times in 90K miles, and on one occasion, barely got him home before it completely died.

    I have stated before that the best car that I ever owned was my old Accord, but I question whether we are now dealing with the same kind of company that built cars that could be expected to routinely reach 150K miles or more before needing major overhauls.

    This is the reason that I'd want to make sure that I got a CRV that came straight from Japan with all issues addressed, but the fact is that after all I have read, at this point I'll probably let the info keep rolling in for the next several months before I decide whether or not to buy a 2008 model CRV.

    Who knows... Maybe I'll change my habits to meet Honda's. I've always paid cash, but maybe I'll use a short-term lease next time. In that way I can hopefully drop off the vehicle before it becomes a financial liability.
  • snoopy21snoopy21 Posts: 114
    feefoe, your low trade-in offer for your odyssey has little to do with your tranny problems. trade-in offers are terrible regardless. when we bought our CR-V in december, the dealership offered $500 for my '94 accord. i turned them down and sold it on craigslist in two minutes (literally!) for $3,000.

    we have a 2001 odyssey with just over 100,000 miles and the ONLY problems we've had with it are the passenger side power door and the light for the clock on the dash burned out.

    the rear diff on our 2007 CR-V AWD sounds normal to me too.
  • feefoefeefoe Posts: 36
    Actually, it has everything to do with the trade in offer. As I've stated in previous posts, my brother-in-law's transmission shop has a conspicuously high number of Odysseys waiting to have their transmissions replaced because of the same exact problem, so it's no secret in industry circles that the models in question are badly flawed.

    Furthermore, when my father and I looked at other makes, we were repeatedly told (in some cases apologetically) that trade in was going to be extremely low due to the fact that the transmission nightmares of the Odyssey are well known throughout the automobile industry.

    The bottom line is that we could have gotten as much in trade for for a decent 2001 Civic as we we were offered for his semi-loaded loaded Odyssey.
  • drive62drive62 Posts: 637
    I've seen Honda's worst.

    Why on earth would you buy a new CR-V? You will never be happy.
  • feefoefeefoe Posts: 36
    I will be happy precisely because I take the time to think things out instead of allowing myself to be mesmerized by the bright and shiny nature of the newest toy, or allowing my wife's, "but it's so pretty," objections to have any effect other than to once again point out that it's a very sytylish automobile.

    You obviously made a decision to buy the CRV over a Chevy, Ford, etc. due to your perception that it was a better buy. My decisions just go one or two steps further. Some people are happy to buy right away and hope for the best, but that's not the way that I conduct my personal business.

    To each his own...

    If the next few waves of 2007 CRV's pass muster with the public, I'll be buying a 2008.
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    despite the fact that people were having to have them replaced over and over again

    That sounds like a factor likely to affect "demand" so I guess it's sort of on-topic. :)

    tidester, host
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