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Whats up with Hyundai/Kia sales the last 2-3 months?

carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
edited March 6 in Hyundai
I noticed Hyundai sales have been down for the past 3 mnonths vs prev months year YTD. Is Hyundai cutting back on fleet sales because their fleet sales made up 20% of their sales from what I read once. Another theory to why Hyundai sales are down is because of really conservative styling like on the 06 Sonata and the 07 Elantra mimics the 03 Corolla back end with the tall back end and the tailghts.

Hynundai's little sister brand Kia's sales have been up of late especially in the past 2 months. For example, Kia sold 30K units in Dec 06 vs 18 units in Dec 05 and Kia sold 22k units in Jan 07 vs Jan 06. Another question is Kia upping their fleets sales for their sales increases of late?
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Comments

  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    The fleet reduction is true. Hyundai USA started with the initiation looking to get "as many butts as possible" (Hyundai's word ;) ) in the Sonata, that program has ended for the time being.

    I don't believe the conservative theory is true. Case in point, the Corolla is about as conservative as you can get :) Past Sonata sales may have included higher percentage of fleet units. On the Elantra, production is still strained as a result of numerous unfortunate events in 06. My area dealers are reporting brisk sales.

    Not much info on Kia but no one seems to be complaining as long as they are up :)
  • lokkilokki Posts: 1,200
    I've heard that GM cut back their fleet sales.
    I've heard that Ford cut back their fleet sales.
    Now I'm reading (above) that Hyundai is cutting their fleet sales.

    SOMEBODY is selling to the fleets to make up for these cutbacks. That market didn't just disappear -

    Which company is getting all these sales now? :confuse:

    Is it good for that company, or bad?
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Toyota? DCX has been big too. I am seeing more Mazdas at rental centers. May be even Mitsubishis. But, GM, Ford and Hyundai are still major players in the fleet market.

    Good to show increase in sales.
    Bad when it comes to reputation over time.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,154
    ...are pretty dang expensive these days. I saw a Hyundai Azera and a Kia Amanti with MSRPs north of $30K! For that price, one could get a pretty nice Avalon. Shoot, the Sedona minivan was $32K. I thought it was supposed a lot cheaper than the Mopar, Toyota, and Honda minivans.
  • fezofezo Posts: 9,329
    The $32K Sedona is maxed out. You can get an Ody or Sienna to go way higher than that.

    That said I think Hyundai is slowly inching up in the price world.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    Prices are still relatively the same, albeit slightly up, mostly due to the strong currency in the home market. The more contributing factor is some of competing rivals have lowered their vehicles. One thing should be noted, Hyundai vehicles have improved vastly, so one would rationalize the slight price bump.

    A premium on comparable Toyota/Honda/Nissan is still evident (e.g. a comparable Azera is still a good 3-5K less than the Avalon).

    Also interesting to note, Kia has a comprehensive range of minivans, one of the few in the market has the whole class covered - Rondo, Sedona SWB, Sedona LWB. The latest sales support the Sedona being a great buy. And as said, many of the minivans comparable are in the 30s and upwards to 40K.

    Your figures are all loaded versions, by the way.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    I think Lemko, was saying he'd rather have the base Yota over the Hykia, and I'd agree with him. ;)

    Rocky
  • fezofezo Posts: 9,329
    I will tell you, though, having driven a Hyundai Entourage I would put it up there against Japan's best. Naturally I still have this little voice in my head going "Korean car!" but I am sure it will sooner or later go away.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    Is that like perferring a base 3-series over a loaded CTS? :P
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    "Toyota? DCX has been big too. I am seeing more Mazdas at rental centers. May be even Mitsubishis. But, GM, Ford and Hyundai are still major players in the fleet market."

    Mazda-RX 8's and MX-5 Miata and 3's really don;t go to fleets that much. The 6 however does because its too small to compete with Camry, Accord, Sonata, and Fusion.

    Mitsu- They don;t even sell that many cars in the past few in the US over the past few years.

    Chrysler is a big player in the fleet market even though they are reducing fleet sales too.

    Toyota: they do sell to fleets but not as the Domestic 2.5 do or Kia/Hyundai.
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    I've heard that GM cut back their fleet sales.
    I've heard that Ford cut back their fleet sales.
    Now I'm reading (above) that Hyundai is cutting their fleet sales.

    SOMEBODY is selling to the fleets to make up for these cutbacks. That market didn't just disappear -

    Which company is getting all these sales now?


    I think you can ask which company is going to pick up the slack for GM, Ford, and maybe even now Hyundai cutting back their fleet sales but I think GM and Ford were guilty of dunping way too many cars too fleets. In my opinion Hyundai if they are in fact cutting back their fleet sales now its because they have to establish good residiuals throughout their vehicle line-up like Honda, Toyota, and Nissan have. I mean an average new car owner keeps their car for 3 years maybe and the first 3 years you own a new car(that you bought new off the lot)is when the car depreciates the most so Hyundai I think wants to establish better resale values.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    "Toyota? DCX has been big too. I am seeing more Mazdas at rental centers. May be even Mitsubishis. But, GM, Ford and Hyundai are still major players in the fleet market."

    Hyundai USA is not really a major player in the fleet market. The Sonata has garnered the most attention but that was a strategic move on the part of Hyundai, and has now been reduced greatly.

    Other Hyundais such as Tib, less than 1% are contributed to fleet.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Well I'm not foolish enough to do that !

    Rocky
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Actually, Hyundai increased fleet sales of Sonata drastically last year compared to a year ago.
    2005: 26.5%
    2006: 50.2% (this is thru June)

    In fact, In Jan-June period (2006), Hyundai has put 3.5 times as many Sonatas in rental fleet (~42K units) as it did in entire 2005.

    Elantra is lower at 13-14% over the same period. Kia is a major player too. The one mainstream company that stands out NOT doing fleet sales is Honda. Here are mid-year 2006 numbers:
    Civic: 0.9%
    Accord: 1.1%

    Toyota has been steadily increasing its participation in "fleet program". Camry and Corolla typically range between 14-19%.
  • dtownfbdtownfb Posts: 2,915
    The additional fleet sales for the Sonata may have had to do with the delay of the 07 sonatas. In other words, clear out the 2006 to make room. I'm sure they plan on selling fewer to rentals this year.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    I'm sure all automakers want to sell fewer cars to rental companies (or fleet in general). The number posted above are for first six months in 2006, and for a car that was redesigned not too long ago.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    The fleet initiative started in the 2nd half of 05 and ran for a good year or so. There were reasons for the initiative, and they had little to do with getting better sales figures.

    42K fleet through June 06 is not a fact, by the way.

    More Sonatas went to fleet in 06 than in 05 because:

    1) Hyundai's fleet initiative on the Sonata
    2) It's a better car in almost every way than the outgoing generation

    Ask the industry if Hyundai or Kia has been major players in the fleet program...

    Lastly, fleet is not as bad as the perception makes it out to be.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    42K fleet through June 06 is not a fact, by the way.

    You can look it up here.

    BTW, fleet isn't just perceived to be bad, it is bad (hence the effort by automakers to avoid/minimize it). For example, do you think DCX enjoys seeing Dodge Stratus with 87% fleet (during first half of 2006).
  • nthenthe Posts: 414
    "are pretty dang expensive these days. I saw a Hyundai Azera and a Kia Amanti with MSRPs north of $30K! For that price, one could get a pretty nice Avalon. Shoot, the Sedona minivan was $32K. I thought it was supposed a lot cheaper than the Mopar, Toyota, and Honda minivans. "

    the azera tops out at about 31K msrp. a comparably equipped avalon stickers for over 35K.
  • The Hyundai Azera starts at $24,535-$27,335 not $30,000
    and the Kia Amanti starts at $25,495 and a Toyota Avalon
    starts at $26,875-$34,065

    Than the Kia Sedona starts at $23,595-$26,195 and
    the Toyota Sienna starts at $24,155-$37,665 than
    the Honda Odyssey starts at $25,645-$39,095

    So really Hyundai's and Kia's vehicles are cheaper
    than Toyota's and Honda's vehicles :P
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    But of course the volume models are really only a few hundred dollars more expensive. The only real difference is that the Toyota and Honda models can be loaded up a lot more, which is why the top end of the price spectrum for those models stretches to the sky.

    What's intriguing to me is that Toyota and Honda, despite their relative positions today in the North American market, continue to be able to compete so well with the Koreans on price. Sure, in most cases you might get a few more doo-dads in the Hyun/Kia for the same price, but you get a full complement of safety equipment in the Hondas at that price, something you don't always get in the Korean models, and you get a pretty good quality rep and Japanese resale into the bargain.

    The Koreans WILL eat the domestic manufacturers alive (or in some cases, 3/4 dead) in the next decade, but I am thinking that will be the only way for them to boost sales in the short term, stealing market share from Ford, GM, and Chrysler. And they had better get to it, what with the Chinese only a few years from being totally viable in North America.

    In the meantime, I think Hyundai's recent push upmarket (and up in prices) was too much, too soon. This may be the reason their sales are currently stagnating.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • fezofezo Posts: 9,329
    When I last looked Hyundai is putting all the safety equipment on standard in anything they have recently updated (Sonata, Sante Fe, Entourage) much like Honda does.

    The culprit is Toyota who still has safety equipment as options. That I find annoying. They have lots of company with optional safety equipment unfortunately.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    The Sonata and other Hyundais started the trend and era of standard ESC in respective classes -> thumbs up!!
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    Well they just updated the Accent, and ABS is still optional there...

    ...but yes, Hyundai is very competitive on the safety features front.

    What's funny is that Chevy once again sells the least expensive car in America. Chevy. (Or is it Toyota with the base model Yaris hatchback? I forget which).

    Hyun/Kia hasn't gone quite far enough forward to give up the lowest-priced-car crown just yet. They should have held onto that, I think.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • w9cww9cw Posts: 888
    Honda's with a full list of safety equipment at a Hyundai price???? Not quite . . . you have to buy an Accord EX V6 to get the same level of safety equipment that you receive in a base Sonata GLS. And, if you compare the price of an Accord EX-L V6 to a Sonata Limited Standard - each comparably equipped - ask yourself this question: Can you buy an Accord EX-L V6 for $19.5 delivered, including TTL? No, you can't, whereas you can buy a 2007 Sonata Limited Standard for that price, and sometimes less.

    The Accord is a fine car, I have no carps with that. But, the Sonata is an excellent value. I bought a Hyundai in direct head-to-head same day test drive comparisons to Honda and Toyota, and not on price alone. To say that Hyundai is only impacting domestic sales is a rather uninformed statement.

    In over 14 months of ownership, I've had not one single glitch, QC problem, or warranty claim with the Hyundai. The same can't be said with the last Honda, Mazda, Nissan, or Toyota my wife and I have owned. In fact, the last Honda we owned (a new late '90s Accord) had 3 warranty claims in the first 6 months of ownership. I'm still a believer in Japanese vehicles, but this Korean-made (not Alabama-made) Hyundai has opened my eyes.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    "To say that Hyundai is only impacting domestic sales is a rather uninformed statement."

    Ummm, well OK show me which models among the foreign brands Hyundai is impacting. You mention Sonata. Camry sales are up month over month, year over year, and on and on it goes. Accord slumped a little a year or two back but at its worst moment had more than twice the number of sales Sonata has in a year, so I don't think we can use that one as an example. Altima I am less well versed on, but from what little I have read, it has held steady for sales through the last cycle, which began 5 years ago, and showed a major uptick from the generation before it.

    Hyundai seems to be most closely emulating Toyota in terms of engineering priorities and design choices, yet all the models on which they compete head to head show solid growth at Toyota over the last 4 or 5 years, as far as I can see.

    I wasn't referring to other niche imports, like Mazda/Subaru/VW/other German brands, so if that was what you inferred then I should clarify.

    When you talk about the safety equipment question, what is it that the base Accord does not have that Sonata does? If you are including stability control, then I will concede you the point. I was thinking of airbags and ABS.

    I am not here to attack Hyundai - what do I care? I was making some speculations that address the GIVEN in the title of the thread here: "what's up (which I construe to mean, what's wrong?) with Hyun/Kia sales?"

    Autoweek just did its long-term wrap-up on the new Sonata, and voiced a couple of thoughts which exactly echo mine in what is now my moderately extensive seat time in the new Sonata:
    "No better than decent"
    "It's good enough for people who don't really care about cars, but not for the rest of us"

    I would say the current Camry is 110% the car the Sonata is, and I am not a fan of the current Camry. I think the new-last-year Camry barely improved over its predecessor, and may be a little worse than the '02-'06 in some ways, styling excepted.

    In the "good enough" category, the market is flooded with midsize models, and compacts and crossovers too. When Hyundai stands out, they will see sales increase. The generation they are in right now is the one where they properly catch up to become solidly midpack. And the reliability of the new cars, if it truly is there as it looks like it will be, will stand them in very good stead in a few years' time when the line-up is fully updated again.

    Oh, and I should add that I have not yet had the opportunity to drive the new Elantra, so for all I know it will blow my socks off. I have driven the new Accent (specifically, the GT), which I liked a lot, and which gives other subcompacts a good run for their money, but which doesn't make as well-rounded a package as the Fit, when comparably priced.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • geo9geo9 Posts: 739
    FUNNY..............Touring the rental lot at hertz
    TODAY in Daytona Beach I had several choices...
    hyundai, hyundai, hyundai...............

    UGH !.....I wanted a Ford Fusion or even a Mustang!
    (For the deal price)
    So I asked "can I upgrade and get a Lincoln, Grand
    Marquis maybe even a Caddy"? NO DICE !!!!!!!!!
    Not a GM car to be found !
    No Hertz Collection cars avail. either..........

    Oh well beats walking.... I will just swap cars with
    mom and tool around in her Caddy !!!!!!!! :shades:
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,910
    that a lot of those fleet sales were artifically high? While there's always going to be a market for fleet vehicles, if the manufacturers are dumping these things into fleets at bargain-rate prices and overloading the market, it's possible that they're just turning around and selling the cars off of their fleets quicker than they normally would?
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    You're as unlikely to find a GM car at Hertz, as you are finding Ford at National where GM rules. But, Hyundai and Kia can easily be spotted at rental centers.
  • fezofezo Posts: 9,329
    I'm surprised with optional safety in the Accent. Disappointed as well.

    I'm very impressed with the current generation Sonata which, indeed, seems to be aiming at Camry rather than the Accord.

    Just as I hate folks that charge extra for antilock brakes and side air bags I feel the same way when stability control is an option. I won't buy a new car without it but am not selling the present cars to get it. Were I wealthier I would.

    Classic dumb move using optional safety equipment - the Ford 500. If you load it with all that equipment that I maintain should be standard it is rated the safest car you can currently buy. Drop the side airbags and stability control and it falls down to the middle. I understand manufacturing costs and all but why would you give up the shot to put "safest car. period." in your advertising?
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