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Land Rover Discovery and Discovery II

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  • nanuqnanuq Posts: 765
    98: If you're talking about resetting the "Service Engine" light yeah there is a trick. But the Check Engine light has to be reset by the Testbook. I think. Unless I've got my facts all twisted around.

    DM: How likely is it that you bumped the connection to the Air Mass sensor? It's inline with the air intake and with your removing the cover to the air filter you might have bumped it loose. The ECU depends on a good signal from the AM sensor to know how to map its fuel injection pulses. There's also a Throttle Position Indicator down in there that tells the ECU how to work. Just check all the electrical connections on the driver side of the intake plenum and see if they're all tightly connected.

    By any chance did you change the air filter and get it in cocked or something? Maybe it's moving around and obstructing air intake at the snorkle?
  • discomandiscoman Posts: 110
    Bob
    I checked everything. THe only thing I found since this whole problem started was the blasted O-ring out of place. I only have a short 20 minute drive to work, so I am not sure if the problem is fixed, or that I just haven't been driving it long enough at a time to make it happen. I am still going to change out the fuel filter this weekend regardless, just because it makes sense, and I doubt if it has ever been done. This has been a most frustrating problem. I guess because I did several things at once and am trying to figure out if it was something I did, or just coincidence. I changed the oil, filter, tranny fluid and lubed the drivetrain, and also checked the air filter. The gasket is the only thing I can think of ourt of place. I haven't broken out my disk to look at the manuals lately. There are two sets of wires. One leads to a sensor that is on the air filter cover(two wires), the other is in the next section of the snorkel. The o-ring is the one between these two sections. I can see where if there wasn't a snug seal, there would be extra air sucked into the snorkel, not going through the air filter. If the first connection (The one in the air filter cover) is an air temperature sensor, then it doesn't make sense to me causing this problem. If it's a mass air flow sensor, then it does. I don't know. Let me know what you think.

    You are correct about the check engine and service engine lights. The service engine light can be reset, the Check engine has to be done by the testbook. It was you who taught me this awhile back.
  • I replaced the OEM tires with Pirelli Scorpions...absolutely love them...great ride, treadwear, and off-roadability.
  • nanuqnanuq Posts: 765
    Is there any chance you banged one of the O2 sensors while you were beneath changing the tranny fluid?

    The Mass Air sensor on mine is toward the plenum from the o-ring you're talking about... in the cylindrical part of the air intake.

    Does it seem to be okay under light throttle but then lugs down when you stomp it? And does it seem to lose RPM, instead of gaining, as you said?

    Dang. You checked the ATF level when you were done, and checked the oil level too... so neither one is overfull?

    How about the spark plug wires on the side where the engine oil dipstick lives?

    This is sure a strange one.......
  • Well, I finally got to do the brakes on my disco II. I followed the directions linked in an earlier post. The job itself was VERY EASY!! However, I must add to make sure the old anti- squeal pad doesn't slide behind the rotor as you remove the old pads. I discovered a noisy disc after reinstalling the tires. Luckily, my test drive exposed the problem. After I removed the disc all was well. Although I have noticed some roughness while braking

    I do have a question regarding resurfacing the rotors. I haven't seen anyone recommend doing this. Are the disco rotors non- turnable? I assume the rough braking is due to the pads trying to conform to the old surface of the rotors. If so, how long is this break-in period?
    Anyone have thoughts on this?
  • nanuqnanuq Posts: 765
    I've got 88k miles on my DI and I'm on the 4th set of pads. I'm still within tolerance for thickness on the original rotors.

    About the "roughness" you shouldn't really feel that when bedding in a new set of pads; if anything your braking power will be slightly less than when they're fully bedded in (and fit the unaltered rotor surface correctly). I'd think your pads would be well bedded in by the 3rd or 4th day of driving them.

    You may have got a sticking caliper... they are supposed to self-center on the through-bolts. Did the bolts seem to bind when you put them back thru the calipers? If so your caliper may be running off-center and you can have the caliper body interact slightly with the rotor upon braking.

    It really is an easy job. And a good time to rotate the tires front-to-back. Also a good time to bleed everything and get the old nasty brake fluid out of the calipers. Just make sure you don't push the calipers in to accomodate the thick new brake pads, without cracking the bleed screws. The ABS pump DOES NOT LIKE to have dirty brake fluid pushed back up the lines into it.

    Good for you, doing your own brake job! It's simple and fun!

    Best regards, -Bob
  • Bob, thanks for the info. The brake job really was fun and easy. I was worried about any rover specific issues but, clearly these are minimal. Pushing the pistons back was the only hard part.

    As for the roughness, the caliper bolts went back very easy. I made sure to hand tighten everything before breaking out the wrench. I'm always afraid of stripping bolts. How would I check for a sticking caliper?

    I've driven it maybe 50 miles so far the ride is smoothing out. But, I may just be getting used to the roughness! Other than that, all is well.
  • Never mind! I seemed to have fixed the problem. The caliper must not have been sitting correctly. I re-installed the brake caliper and now it's smooth sailing!
  • nanuqnanuq Posts: 765
    Good job, and good on ye!
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,673
    http://www2.autospies.com/article/index.asp?articleId=2634&ca- - - tegoryId=12

    This is a huge improvement over the current model, in terms of looks IMO. I think(?) it also has a variation of the Range Rover's independent suspension. The spare tire has now been moved inside.

    I'm wondering if this a *pure* Land Rover, or if there is some platform sharing with the Ford Explorer? The wheelbase appears to be much closer to that of the Explorer, than that of the current Disco.

    Bob
  • tincup47tincup47 Posts: 1,508
    The new LR3 (offical new name in North America) has zip to do with the Explorer. The wheelbase was lengthened to increase interior room, which was a complaint about the current generation Discovery. The spare tire is under the rear end, not in the interior.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,673
    I knew you would fill in the blanks. :)

    What about the suspension? IFS/IRS, like the Range Rover?

    Bob
  • discomandiscoman Posts: 110
    I don't know if anyone has been following my problem besides nanuq and Tincup, but you will be amazed to find out the result. I called LR Northwest and talked to their technician. He actually recommended I NOT bring it in to them since it would be a waste of money and time. When he asked me about my spark plugs I told him I had installed Bosch Platinum +4's about 5K ago, and he told me my plugs were fouled. He recommended I remove them and throw them as far away as I could, then install the regular Champion plugs. I did just that (Except for throwing away the Bosch. I can get my money back from them.) Runs fine, with the exception that the guys at Shucks sold me the wrong plugs (I didn't think to look at them)and now my truck won't idle without dying. So I need to get the right ones and should run fine (It did for about two days on these plugs, except it would idle at about 2K until it warmed up.) I guess I was running too lean and carboned up the bosch plugs. (They were pretty black) Maybe I will just clean them off real good and try them again.

    As for the New Disco From the site Nanuq sent, I don't think I like it too much. It looks narrower than the current one, and has lost a lot of it's uniqueness. Gone are the Alpine windows, and raised rear roof which gave so much to it's apprarance, and appeal. It looks like a shoebox on wheels, almost delicate instead of tough. What happened to the steel bumpers? What about the Class III hitch, or the dual tail lights and turn signals? I can understand moving the spare tire underneath, but I would rather pull it off the back than have to crawl under my truck to get at it. It's also harder to keep it clean and avoid rusting the steel rim. Out of sight, out of mind so to speak. Now the rear end looks like a minivan. This has become definitely a "Soccer Mom SUV" instead of the last great true 4X4 truck left in the world.

    Personally I think I will keep my '96 until my son starts driving it in about 4-5 years or until it falls apart, if ever, then maybe get a used '04.
  • tincup47tincup47 Posts: 1,508
    Don't judge too hastily from a couple of pictures. I have seen the actual vehicle, except with covers disguising the details and can assure you it has a raised rear roof, is just as wide as the old one and will have a class 3 hitch available. The current Discovery does not have steel bumpers, it has bumper covers. It is quite massive looking in person, not delicate at all. People said the same thing about the new Range Rover not being an Off-road vehicle, and it is actually a better off-road vehicle than the earlier 4.0-4.6 version. They also said Land Rover sold out when it changed from leaf springs to coil springs on the Defender, but it actually made the vehicle better off-road
  • nanuqnanuq Posts: 765
    Hmmmmmmm. Not idling? Idling and dying? Idling at 2k rpm? That suuuuuuuuuuuure sounds like a throttle position indicator that's not connected well, or in the process of failing. It's right in there where the air intake snorkle is too... are you SURE everything is connected right?

    Now about that new Disco... I didn't send that link. Argh. I'm with you, I like my '96!

    And you realize the problem is not with the spark plugs themselves... this is indeed a Lord Lucas problem. I mean really... you put BOSCH plugs in a Lucas electrical system? Tsk.

    I recommend putting in some really poor el-cheapo plugs and pouring a pint of Guinness over the intakes... and I bet she'll run fine.

    LORD LUCAS DISCLAIMER: My Land Rover is a POS that runs rarely and when she does she can scarcely summon the power to stay ahead of the street sweepers. Parts fall off of her continuously, though they are in fact of the highest British quality. She stumbles and stutters, she embarrasses me always, and her doors refuse to shut. She leaves the seat up on the toilet and charges ebay purchases to my credit card without my authorization. Run, do not walk, from her... for she is hideous to behold.

    *wink* that oughta do it for a few more months
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,673
    http://www.usautonews.com/

    See 3rd story/link (as of today) on this site.

    It does indeed have IFS/IRS. I too agree with Chuck. I have no concern about this vehicle being off-road challenged. I'm sure it will be a worthy replacement for the current Disco, and will uphold the LR reputation just fine.

    Bob
  • discomandiscoman Posts: 110
    I have indeed been assaulted by this man. I did finally get the Spark Plugs (The right ones this time) and replaced them. I still have my problem, albeit a bit milder it seems. Then again I don't know if it's because these plugs are new and haven't fouled up yet. I get some pretty neat smoke come out the tailpipe and stain my driveway, and I am finding myself with no other option than taking my precious B**CH! to "The Man". I so hate having to take it to LR. I have some feeling that the wrong Spark Plugs in there for two days is gonna cost me a lot of $$$$. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the ECU, or something worse. Anyone know what a new ECU is gonna run me? I hace reached the end of my rope. Bob, believe me I checked EVERYTHING at least 20 times. No joy. I have no other option right now.
  • Let me begin by saying that this is not a troll. I wonder what the boards reaction is to the abysmally low ranking on the JD Powers reliability index? Appararently, LR is next to last, ahead only of Kia. Is it that LR, Discos in particular, have lots of little, nagging problems that once you fix stay fixed and no major power train problems? There seems to be some cognititve dissonance out there: by most objective standards the reliability is low but the enthusiasm is high. So, how is this resolved?

    Or looking at it another way, on this board I've learned that Discos have no fuel filter, to change the transmission oil filter requires using a hydraulic press to pry apart the boxed frame to get at a cross member, the ABS pump can fail and cost the national debt of Haiti, the engine is a GM cast off from the mid'60s, etc. Yet, people insist that they are well engineered and will take you places no other vehicle will. So, how is this reconciled? (Given what I know about the quality of fuel in the Third World, I hope that Disco owners there install a huge Racor fuel filte with a glass inspection bowl.)

    Again, I'm not looking for an argument. I'm just puzzled.
  • discomandiscoman Posts: 110
    Well I finally got my Disco back. Turned out it needed the Air intake seals, Air intake Plenum gasket, Throttle position sensor, and a couple minimal hoses replaced. Now she purrs like a wildcat once again. I just wish the final bill didn't come to $944 ($680 Labor) I can't believe these guys get $98/hr.

    As to Blockislandguy, there is a fuel filter in the Disco I It is behind the right rear wheel well, just forward of it. The Disco II has one integral with the fuel pump, and the cross member is there to protect the transmission as well as add rigidity to the frame. I would trust mu Disco where I wouldn't dream of taking the Exploder it replaced. Ask any Insurance agent about it's safety rating as well. Way I look at it, if you're not willing pay the price to maintain it, you shouldn't buy it. (And I'm a sailor) Everyone buys a Disco knowing the rep, and hoping it's not going to happen to them. I used to have a BMW that ran like a clock until the warranty was up. Then it wouldn't keep the time right for more than a month at a time. In 6 months I had to have the engine taken apart twice to replace a seal, and got stranded 4 times. Each time in the middle of the night, in the middle of nowhere. You couldn't take it to anywhere for an oil change that didn't want at least $100. So I got rid of it after 5 years. It was a love-hate relationship, but when my wife ran over a parking lot curb, and it bent the frame, It became a (I'm not gonna pay for that one)problem.

    I pray to Lord Lucas that he not choose to visit me again anytime soon, for I beseech his shadow of darkness and am trying for the light.
  • tincup47tincup47 Posts: 1,508
    Actually the technicians only get a fraction of the hourly labor rate. The retailer gets the bulk of that money which goes to pay for all the Equiptment, the light bill, property expenses, payroll, and other expenses before profit. Most retailers try to have parts and service pay for all of the fixed operation expenses.
     I actually was in another business for a short time in the early 1980's servicing restaurant coffee machines for a food service company. At the time the labor charged for my work was $75 an hour and mileage charges to get to the site. Given that I had no where near the overhead that a Car Retailer has makes the $98 seem almost reasonable.
  • Hello,

    My wife and I are new to these boards. We've owned a Land Rover before (2000 Series II) and are considering buying a used 2003 SE7. We've found one at Land Rover Denver South (although we only want to deal with Land Rover Flatirons - which is near Boulder where we live and is the dealership that we worked with last time).

    I've seen people posting VIN numbers on here and getting the history of the vehicle that way. Can anyone do that or is there something that needs to be done in advance of the request.

    If the former, the VIN number is SALTW16403A812692.
  • discomandiscoman Posts: 110
    I know all about that. It's just me grumbling. Also I would like to let everyone who has had the transmission shuddering problem that I got the same problem a few weeks ago. Managed to troubleshoot it to having overfilled the transmission when I changed the tranny fluid. Make sure you check it when Idling cold, in Neutral, not Park. I ended up draining about a quart and a half from my Tranny and it runs smooth now. The problem occurs mostly when the transmission is hot due to expansion of the fluid. This creates high pressure which will normally expand, but can't when the transmission is overfilled.
  • stopgo1stopgo1 Posts: 20
    I have had my 03 for a total of 17 months now and put 31500 miles on her. On the whole, I love this truck! However, there are a few things that somewhat bother me where the future of the truck is concerned.

    The ABS system in the Disco either has a major engineering flaw or is just junk. I have had both front end sensor hubs, the rotors and brakes on both sides all replaced because the ABS, Brake, HDC, and TC lights were continuously coming on and staying on. I am told that the ABS hubs are sensitive to getting brake dust and dirt on them and that those conditions will cause the light to come on.

    The right front side was the last hub replaced less then a month ago. This weekend all the lights are back on again. I take the truck offroad alot, it gets dirty alot and I'm sure the hubs are constantly covered in mud or whatever. Even after cleaing them up the lights stay on. Taking it back in this week to see what the "new" problem is.

    Anyone else having ABS issues?
  • nanuqnanuq Posts: 765
    I'm glad you got your truck fixed but I'm sure sorry it cost so much! Apparently the TPI (see post 3661) was the culprit but it took them all day to find it and fix it? Man that's aggravating.

    It's probably good they replaced those small hoses at the juncture there by the TPI as they eventually get gummed up inside that "T" fitting and then you have driveability issues. Or the hoses crack and then all bets are off as to what the ECU will do. And ideally now you have true rubber gaskets at the air plenum. Some Rovers of our vintage still have cork and those degrade over time.

    Sorry it took so long to get back to you, I've been out of town.
  • nanuqnanuq Posts: 765
    The Rover ABS system has proven to be utterly reliable for me, and impervious to crud. Of course my hubs are different than yours with the swivel housings etc., and the ABS rings inside that lube bath. Occasionally I'll whang my sensors and knock them out of place and my ABS stops working right, but a little tapping back into place does it.

    I seriously doubt your problem is with the "hard" parts like hubs/sensors. It's got to be in the wiring or ECU.

    My '96 had sporadic electrical problems with unrelated systems and I finally got a hint from another gent that my fuse block beneath the hood was the culprit. I disassembled it and cleaned all connections to restore "clean" power to the electrical systems (ECUs) and presto ALL the problems went away.

    Your '03 is doubtless different but my fuse block is on the passenger side, midpoint of the engine, level with the intake manifold. It's about 3" wide by 10" long. There are some heavy black wire bundles entering it from beneath. I just took it apart in-place and cleaned all connections with a pencil eraser, blew out the dust and reconnected.
  • discomandiscoman Posts: 110
    Nanuq, Tincup
    I thought my problems were solved, but nay. I got my truck back, and it is definitely running smoother, but the original problem remains. By the way I filed a claim with Shucks, for selling me the wrong plugs which (According to LR) caused the engine problem. The issue I have is something wierd. I can be driving down the road with no problem whatsoever, then all of a sudden my truck will lose power and shudder, for about 2-3 seconds, then the power comes back, and it may, or may not continue like this for awhile, or may go away after a couple or 3 instances in a row. It usually only happens after I have been driving for at least 20-30 minutes. Never right after cold starting. I don't think it's mechanical. I think I have an electrical problem of some sort that is random, and only happens when the truck is warmed up. I inspected my transmission, and discovered I had overfilled it when I changed the fluid, so I drained out the excess fluid, hoping that was the problem. But then it did it to me again yesterday. I only have a 20 minute drive to work, so on a normal day I will never see it. Only if I have to drive for a distance longer than about 20 miles does it happen. Unless I have a lot of stop and go driving, and then get on the freeway for the ride home. I don't know if it would be the ECU since it doesn't happen all the time. I am thinking about the fuse block issue you phrased in #3672 or something similar. Maybe one of those vacuum hoses didn't get replaced, but they don't look bad. The only ones I had like that were the Cruise Control hoses, and I cut the dry rotted part off them months ago. I sent an e-mail to my LR Rep, because I don't want to take them my truck, and they let it sit overnight, then they can't reproduce the problem in the morning. I need to talk to them so I can go pick up the rep, and drive on the freeway with him until it happens. Yesterday I noticed (after I was off the freeway and on a service road, that it did it and the speedo was all over the place and then settled out. If all I had to do was drive to and from work I wouldn't worry so much about fixing it until it got bad enough to track easily, but I am planning to drive cross country this Summer, and don't need something like this haunting my whole trip, or getting worse then (Like in the middle of Montana). Of course I get no lights or any other indications. LRNW says if it was ANY problem with the ECU I would have a "Check Engine" light. Let me know what you think.
  • mnrovermnrover Posts: 52
    What should the proper air pressure be on a DII with 16in Rims I am running with the Michelin XPC's
  • nanuqnanuq Posts: 765
    Do you know if your truck was ever examined for the sticking exhaust valves problem? Tincup, can you look it up? It doesn't affect all trucks but it did start with model year 1996. Let's pray to the gods of Guinness that it's had the fix already. Its symptoms are exactly what you describe. But it will store codes that are easily diagnosed... misfiring on one cylinder bank, etc.

    BUT...

    If your speedo hunts all over the dial as it acts up then I think you've got an electrical problem. When I was having my electrical problems I'd flip on the stereo and get a big BAM out of the speakers, the speedo would momentarily drop to zero then pop back up, and all dash lights would go off. With loss of power momentarily. Then the idiot lights would all illuminate as if I'd just started it, then they'd go out and all was well.

    Try the fuse block cleaning trick. Take your time, remove EVERY fusible link and clean its connections (in the block and on the link) and reassemble. Blow ALL the dust out. Clean the connections where the wiring bundles attach. I bet it will help a lot and it only takes 15-20 minutes and a phillips screwdriver and pencil.
  • nanuqnanuq Posts: 765
    Rover calls for 38R / 28F for the DI but most people experiment and find better combinations... usually involving the same pressure fore and aft.

    I run Nokian light truck tires rated for 85psi, but inflated to 50psi. I love 'em.
  • I posted this last week and thought I'd bump it back to the top. We've got our local dealer near Boulder looking into getting the vehicle in question for us.

    The VIN is SALTW16403A812692.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated as we're probably going to buy it this week (unless the VIN search shows up with something really bad).
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