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Land Rover Discovery and Discovery II

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  • It's been a long time since I last visited this discussion group, but several months ago there were distinct rumors about a complete re-design of the Disco for the 2004 model year. Since reading that, we held off buying a Disco until then - to see what they would come up with. But, we haven't seen, read or heard anything further on this subject. Can anyone update me, please, and let me know if this is still in the works, or has been pushed back, or the whole idea has been squashed? Thanks!
  • I think it's suppose to show up at the end of 2004 as a 2005 model.

    Maybe someone else has more info on it.
  • From what I have read, the new Disco will be a 2005 model, appearing in late 2004. For MY2004 we get the same as the '03, but with a CDL option, like the rest of the worl has now. I hope! That's the one I will buy.

    Nobody is talking about what the '05 will really be like, but the terms "uni-body" and "independent suspension" have been mentioned. Also a new series of more fuel-efficient engines, perhaps including a clean running turbo-diesel for the USA.

    Here is a link about the future of LR. Be sure to read the rest of the article - it is very informative.

    http://www.forbes.com/2002/07/29/0729feat_6.html
  • kbowenkbowen Posts: 58
    What is the difference in operation between a vehicle with CDL and one with front and rear locking diffs?
  • A centre diff lock ensures drive is always shared between the front and back axles. An axle diff lock ensures drive is shared between the left and right wheel on that axle. The difference is that with a centre diff lock in operation it is still possible that only one wheel per axle will be getting any drive and if these 2 wheels are in the air, or on a no traction surface - well you ain't moving.
    Electronic traction control (ETC)ensures that if a wheel is not getting any or much grip (as sensed by the electronics monitoring how fast the wheel is spinning relative to the overall speed of the vehicle)then the brakes are applied to that wheel alone, leaving all the power to transfer to the other wheel (s) which are (hopefully) finding some grip. With ETC only one tyre on the vehicle at a time needs some grip to maintain vehicle movement. IMHO a CDL is an unecessary bit of hardware on a vehicle with ETC.
  • For most Discovery owners, your answer is probably correct. However, I was not suggesting that a CDL replace the ETC, merely supplement it.

    ETC by itself is not a cure-all. Some of the things an owner should consider:

    1: ETC requires a certain minimal wheel rotation speed to work. If you are moving very slowly, it won't do much. Backing slowly down a steep hill is one scenario where ETC does not work well.

    2: If you have an electrical failure that takes out the system, or take a stick in a wheel sensor harness, you are stuck. With a CDL you can regain much of the lost traction.

    3: If you break a driveshaft U joint, you are stuck - your rig will go nowhere under its own power. With CDL you can lock the center diff, remove the offending shaft, and attempt to drive out of the woods.

    4: If you want to add limited slip or locking diffs in the axles for improved low speed traction (see #1) then they won't be effective without a CDL.

    5: ETC is hard on the brakes and the differential spider gears. A CDL helps by reducing the workload on the ETC.

    Many other fine off-road vehicles offer locking diffs - the new Touareg has CDL and rear, the Land Cruiser a CDL and two axle diffs (I think). There are reasons for this equipment. ETC can be very useful, but by itself it is a little inadequate for serious off-road driving.

    Many owners at the Yahoo Disco2owners group have CDL and ETC, and they like the combination. The fact that LR is making it available again is a good sign.
  • kbowenkbowen Posts: 58
    I was involved in a situation several years ago with a rented Jeep Wrangler trying to get up a steep and rocky incline. The Wrangler had only 4-wheel low and no differential locks or ETC. The right front wheel was off the ground and, because of that, the left front wheel was offering no traction and the rear wheels were not enough to get it up, so I was pulled up by another vehicle.

    I know it is a tough question to answer, but does anyone believe either ETC or CDL would have made a difference. (Another Wrangler with locking front and rear diffs made the climb.)

    Also, I have had several "hairy" experiences with my disco (2001 SE7). On a very steep and somewhat rocky section of the White Rim Trail in Moab I was having trouble with traction and the ETC light was firing away. The Disco began loosing momentum and the rear end was trying to fish tail to the right, which was not good because the trail was narrow with a thousand foot or so drop off to the my left. My solution was to go for more gas to keep up momentum despite some rocks on the trail I would have rather have crawled over. It worked, though. The same thing happened on a muddy slope in Arkansas. And then, back home in LA (that's Louisiana), it was necessary to park on the bottom of an up slope of a grassy and muddy levy (vehicle pointed straight up). When it was time to go, a car had parked behind me and the only way out was to go straight up the levy. The Diso would not move; all four tires were spinning and the ETC light was again lit up like a Christmas tree. I couldn't move and had to wait for the driver of the car to come along so I could back off. [Note: I personally blame the tries for these situations (Goodyear 18" HPs) because the Disco has plenty of power and torque, and as many of you may know from my posts, I have been unsuccessful in locating any sort of all terrain tire in the 18" size because no one make one.]

    Anyway, does anyone have any opinions as to whether CDL would have helped in any of those situations.
  • If the tires you have are unsuitable, there is little hope of ANY traction aid, including CDL, in getting you through the rough stuff. You have hard, low profile tires, running at high pressure. The footprint of your tires is very small, so there is not much grip. In mud, the tread will fill up rapidly and reduce available traction to nil. If you let out air to enlarge the footprint size, you will trash those expensive alloy wheels. Sorry, you just have the wrong wheels and tires for the job.

    If you are running trails in Moab and in mud, you need serious off-road tires. I strongly recommend that you buy a set of 16 inch steel wheels, and buy a set of aggressive off-road tires suitable for the type of terrain you usually drive (I like the Goodyear Mud-Terrains). Buy as large an oversize tire as will fit under your wheel wells (I am assuming you have the stock lift.)

    Air down to 20 psi or less and I don't think you will have any significant problems off-road. Be sure to bring a source of air to reinflate the tires when you return to a paved road.

    It sounds like a PITA to switch wheels around, but its not all that hard. The main factor is if you have a place to store a full set of wheels.

    Here's an article you should read:

    http://www.texasrovers.org/larger.htm
  • Its been a while since I've posted, so I'm not sure if its been discussed...are there going to be any changes in the 2004 Disco, or are they waiting to make any and all changes for the 2005 Expedition...uh, I mean, Disco?? I'm contemplating whether or not I should wait a few more months, or pick one up today or next month (hoping that the snow in the east coast will help reduce some of the cost of the SE, if the dealrs haven't met their quota).
    Thanks Guys!
  • johnedavies1 Feb 25, 2003 8:34pm

    If you want CDL, wait and see if its available in the mY '04.
  • bryan28bryan28 Posts: 59
    Tin, could you see if there is any interesting info on a 02 SD Disco VIN SALTL15402A742264 with 15500 miles. It looks new, but wondering if has been taken care of. Thanks for your help! Bryan
  • bryan28bryan28 Posts: 59
    The LR dealer is willing to swap some 16" wheels and tires from a non performance package (ACE) Disco for the 18" set up on one that I want to buy so I have better off road performance. Does anybody see any potential problems with this swap. Won't I be getting the best of both worlds? Is there any known problems with the ACE system off road or on? Is the ACE system going to require more repairs? How long has the ACE system been around? Thanks for your help, I've gone through many posts and still have the questions. I plan to use the disco mainly for daily commute but also for weekend offroading with my boys. Thanks for your help! Bryan
  • intmed99intmed99 Posts: 485
    If you change out the 18" for 16" tires (stock i assume), then you should have no problems at all.

    ACE REQUIRES 18" tires, i think. The 16" tires are too soft on it's sidewall for ACE to work properly. Therefore, if you make the switch, then do NOT order ACE. ACE has been around since 1999 i think.

    I have heard a few problems with ACE. That is most LR salesman discourage customers from getting it.
  • tincup47tincup47 Posts: 1,508
    I checked the history, vehicle has had the 7,500 mile service. It was built on 09/04/01 and has had a few electrical problems fixed under warranty. I see nothing that would prevent me buying it myself.
  • bryan28bryan28 Posts: 59
    Boy intmed99, if you are right it's too bad. I test drove a 00 disco with ACE yesterday and it was impressive. I think I have to have it. The only thing I wonder about is if I will get used to the noise it makes. I would think the 16" wheel with taller side wall tire would make the ride a little softer but I doubt the forces would be too much different than a non ACE truck. The G force would be the same, the car is just level. I'm sure I'm missing something, please clarify. Thanks Tin for your help too! Bryan
  • silentzsilentz Posts: 5
    Tin,
    I am a new member on here who is looking into buying a 00 Disco VIN SALTY154XYA266826 with 62487 miles on it. I called my local LR dealership trying to get service information, but they weren't as helpful as I would have hoped over the phone. If you don't mind, could you check it out and see if there is anything in this vehicles history that raises an eyebrow. Thanks a lot.

    Mike
  • Hi all,

    Just reading through here. I noticed some confusion with ACE and the wheelsize options.

    It seems that LRNA only supplies you with 18" wheels if you have ACE. But in the rest of the world ACE also comes standard with 16" wheels.

    I know because mine came like that straight from Solihull. So the story that you need 18" wheels for ACE to work is simply not true.

    I cannot comment on the ride of 18" wheels, but ACE works perfect with 16"

    Kind regards
    Marc
  • tincup47tincup47 Posts: 1,508
    I don't see anything out of the ordinary. It is not a one owner vehicle and was originally sold in Colorado.
  • nanuqnanuq Posts: 765
    The difference between 16" and 18" tires will be the sidewall height. 16" tires have much taller sidewalls and so are less prone to pinch flats offroad. Likewise, they tend to "sway" more in cornering due to the longer tire carcass plies wrapping all the way down the sidewalls, across the tread and back up the other sidewall. Radial tires have truly radial plies, lying perpendicular to the direction of motion... and if the tires are oriented toward offroading they'll have softer (but tougher) sidewalls to allow deflection over rocks. The same soft sidewalls will allow sideways movement of the tire contact patch relative to the wheel, giving you a vague road feel in cornering.

    Since ACE is designed to make the Disco hustle hard on paved roads, it makes sense they'd fit it with the optimum tire for hustling... low profile 18"ers. The high profile 16"ers will feel a lot less precise in corners. But they get my vote for offroading.
  • Anyone know if the 05 redesign will include the option of a diesel engine in the US? Interesting commentary on diesels today at:
    http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/science/03/06/show.diesel.reut/index- - .html

    LOVING the new disco btw.
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