Land Rover Discovery and Discovery II

disco99

do not buy a third party extended auto warranty-too many "ifs","buts" and "internally lubricated" lies-I don't think any of these guys would ever pay a $4000 claim for an engine or a tranny--
if you must have it,GO WITH LR- If not save your money and go out of pocket(lesson fron nanuq)

discofever

Hello everyone... I realize that when one decides to purchase a Land Rover, it is based on personal choices and needs. I'm against to wall here and don't know whether to take the plunge or not. I have heard from varies friends who are ex-owners of land rovers (Discovery & Discovery II) not to ever purchase a land rover because of issues they have had in past ownership.

I am considering purchasing a '03 SE7 Land Rover, I realize the '03's have made many improvements, but are they more problem free then they were in most recent years? Are they a good value for the money... Would you purchase one if you could do it all over again?

Thank you in advance for your insite...

stopgo1

I have an '03 Disco HSE and am looking for some advice on driving it in very soft and often deep sand. I was out there a month ago (Outer Banks) and took her out on the beach and drove in H and had the shifter on 3.

Wondering if I should be putting it in L and D for better traction.

Thanks for the advice.

DWPC....I live in central North Carolina and am very satisfied with the performance of my AC, takes a minute to cool the truck off when it's in the mid 90s, have no complaints.

Dave

dwpc

Thanks for the feedback on the A/C. From past 4x4 experience in soft sand, I'd advise you to let the air out of your tires (to about 15 psi) and to use the highest gear you can. Carry a shovel and an air tank to re-inflate the tires before driving on pavement.

miked03

I own a 03 Disco, it will be one year in Sept., and would definitely purchase one if I had to do it all over again.

I don't know that the Disco is a problem plagued vehicle as some make it seem, and its a fact that the quality bar has been raised with the 2003. I know someone with a 99 Disco, over 110 thousand miles, and $2500 in repair costs to date (not bad), who purchased a new 2003 a few months ago. He now has 2 Disco's and plans to keep them both. From what I've seen, Disco's hold up better over time than most (just check out the used ones on the dealers lot).

As far as value, I recently posted that the basic S model can be had for under $33k, which seems to be a good value. I think the S model is all you need, and I have seen dealers add sunroofs and jumpseats if those things appeal to you. ACE, real leather (I love the pleather in the S) and the factory CD players eat away at the value.

blockislandguy

Miked03, IMHO $2500 in repair costs over 110K miles isn't all that great. Let me 'splain. Lets agree that 110K isn't a lot of miles these days, the first 50K was under warranty, and the miles were put on over say 3 or so years. So, we are looking at $2500 to go from 50K to 110K.

Were many of these miles off road? What was done besides, brakes, brakes, and the exhaust? Did he include $400 in tires in this?Nothing should have been required to have been done to the engine/trannny.(Didn't Nanuk post recently about a guy in LA with 500K on his 3.9 GM alu V8?) So, if nothing was done to the powertrain, that leaves us with $2500 in a lot of nickel and dime repairs done after the 50K warranty was up.

Maybe the guy had a lot more fun in his Disco than he would have had in a Ford Exploder, but $2500 in non-powertrain repairs in 18 -22 months of driving (that portion of the car's history after it hit 50K) is about $125 per month. Hello? What did I overlook?

dwpc

This is a great place to get first hand info, so I hope I don't wear out my welcome. We're considering either a Discovery or an Audio allroad. We have an '01 Audit A6 2.7T, and absolutely love it, but two things concern us; long term maintenance costs and value retention. Our Audi has been utterly trouble free for 30K miles, but the warranty ends next year and from what I've learned on Audi forums, IF a repair is needed the costs are absolutely outrageous. (E.g.,$6-7K for turbos or $15K for a new transmission.) So...we're shying away from the allroad even thought its perfect for our needs for non-heroic off-pavement capability.

Second choice is a Disco. We just plain like the rig and, if it doesn't have a completely sterling reputation for reliability, at least it appears to be fixable without a second mortgage after warranty, and many (even major) repairs can be DIY. Is this a reasonable view?

nanuq

Absolutely. This is a simple vehicle. Crawl beneath it and you've got frame rails, an engine, transmission, transfer box, two axles and some suspension. Which part is broken? Unbolt it, take it out, if you can't fix it yourself have it fixed (but I can't imagine it being a drivetrain piece... they are bulletproof) and bolt it back in. There are some weirdnesses, such as removing the frame crossmember to get the transmission pan off. It takes a hydraulic spreader. Seems extreme, but... that crossmember is also preventing you punching a hold in your sump on a rock. See the reasoning these people use? It may be simple to repair but it may also be time consuming. And if so, that's fine as long as the intruding pieces serve a purpose toward longevity.

Another example: the front axle CV joints live in a swivel ball in a 90w lube bath. They *never* fail. Period. Sure the balls leak but so be it. How many Jeeps, Fords, Chevys, Dodges or even Hondas and Toyotas do you know where the original CVs or Hookes joints are still good at 200k miles? None, in my experience.

Granted, parts are expensive for a Disco. But if you maintain it, you won't have to replace parts for a long time. Ugliest case scenario here was a $2400 ABS switching/valve body posted recently. YIKES. But how many $15,000 transmissions will that buy?

Another example: the local shop has *never* replaced a failed transmission on a Disco, except one. It was delivered with no lube installed. Other than that they are bulletproof.

Final example: I have $2800 in repairs to my wife's Ford over the last 6 months. It has the same miles as the Disco and it is loose and tired on the road. By comparison I haven't had ANY repair expenses to the Disco in 3 years and 6 months ... and it gets used HARD offroad. I have fixed a couple things myself: one was an ABS sensor I bashed and had to stand upright again. The other was a dust seal at the end of a half-shaft that was leaking 90w all over creation. I had to pop off the hub center cap with a key, push the dust cap back on, and replace the hub center cap. Total time: 10 seconds.

Last thing to consider: a Land Rover is a love/hate thing. I can't stress that enough. You will love that truck like it's your child, and then you will hate it like the spawn of Hell. It's impossible to reason why, but it's real. Take a look here for some more about the matter:

  http://www.nanuq.net/Arnold's/Bob/LandRover.html

Cheers, -Bob

gadisco

Hello
I have just purchased a used 97 Disco loaded, with only 80k miles-it is immaculate, for only 11k. reading the above posts makes me; #1 feel good about my purchase, and #2 laugh at what I owned before--'98 pont grand prix gtp with 3 transmissions before 81k miles. I can already tell that my Disco will be a more reliable vehicle.
I have a quick question. Is there an reliable parts/accessory supplier on the east coast that I can get parts from? There are three dealers in Atlanta, but I am not sure of their reputation-still checking that out.
Anyway, I'm glad I found this site--theres alot of great info here, and Nanuq, you have a great website.

dwpc

Great post and nice story. It ALMOST makes me want to buy the '67 Series III a neighbor has for sale (asking $4000, rusted frame, no brakes)!

nanuq

Oh man.... where does this vehicle, this heavenly carriage, this pinnacle of automotive grandeur live?

*klank*

Whoops pardon, another part fell off. So much the better, it's getting simpler and lighter all the time!

Series Rovers... gotta love 'em!

nanuq

Try Atlantic-British.com They have lots of good stuff.

gadisco

Thanks for the rover part tip--the Atlantic British site is great.

miked03

I should have said maintenance costs!

A 99 Disco (purchased 60 months ago) with over 110k miles comes out to be about $42 per month. Of the $2500 spent on maintenance costs, most were on oil changes ($50 at LR dealer every 3000k). Other "maintenance costs" include K&N filter, performance plugs and wires, which improve HP and make it sound real nice (highly recommended) and aftermarket springs (all not needed, for tuning purposes). I don't know the length of the warranty back in '99, but the major out of warranty repair was the power window control that went. Like I said, not bad.

blockislandguy

Miked03, agreed, these are very low maintenance costs maybe due in part to your good fluid changes, etc. Congratulations.

Incidentally, an earlier post knocked the location of the seat controls on the center console. I had a ride tonight in a 57K 2003 Navigator. Guess where the controls are? Yep. And, they were convenient too.

nanuq

In my opinion, the controls are placed so they can use design to serve both NAS and the rest of the world. Put the heat/cooling/seats/radio etc in the middle position so they're accessible from either left hand or right hand drive. Look at the symmetry of the air bag piece and the gauges console... one will lift out and switch places with the other.

To me, that is clever engineering. And if it's not "just like everyone else"? So be it. Perhaps "everyone else" is wrong. At least that's how we tend to think here in Alaska.

Crikey! Maybe we're all part English up here! And all this time I thought it was Yupi'q and Russian.

cwdavis4

Any recommendations on some inexpensive gadgets that you would help me deflate and inflate my Disco tires when off-roading? Found any interesting auto deflator:
http://www.oasisoffroad.com/tireInflatorDeflator.html

Also, I am relatively new to off-roading and was wondering how you determine the correct psi when off-road. Are they any guidelines?

miked03

Land Rover got it right with the window control placement, even if it was by accident.

There are 2 reasons why the middle console is best. First, when you are traveling with kids in the back seat, the driver can stay focused on the road and the front seat passenger can control the kids windows. I see many situations where 2 hands on the wheel are critical. I've been offroading in dunes and along the beach where you find those big black flys, kids are screaming because one got in and is on them, and my wife can open the window to let it out.

The other advantage regards child safety. Vehicles that have door mounted window controls are more dangerous because a child can be leaning out the window, stepping on the inside door ledge and activate the window up control and get crushed. This is especially true for rocker types found in many makes. I also have a VW, in which the window control up function needs to be pulled rather than pushed, which may be safer, but not nearly as safe as the middle console.

dwpc

All deflators do is allow you to air down without holding the tire valve manually. Saves a few seconds. Might be valuable if you do it frequently, in which case it may be wise to invest in an engine-mounted compressor for refilling. ARB is one brand I'm aware of. I've never seen any of the "auto store" variety 12V compressors that wasn't extremely slow to get a tire back to 30+psi. I prefer a portable air tank.

stopgo1

cwdavis,

there is a very inexpensive and effective tool called an "Air Down Gauge". You can pick one up at most any auto parts store for less than $20. I got mine from Pep Boys for $14. It's a round faced gauge with a 8" hose hanging from it that has a button to release air from the tires while the hose is actually on the tire.

this allows you the gauge to read the tirepressure as you are releasing air and will prevent you from letting to much out. it's an instant reading rather than having to release air and put the gauge back on again and again.

roveratlast

Two days ago I purchased a 2001 SE7 and am truly in love. When I bought the truck, I asked for a repair history by VIN# which I read on this site that a Rover Dealer could provide. I was informed that this was no longer allowed due to privacy laws -- and was provided documentation about protecting the owner's privacy. Is there another way for me to get this info (VIN# SALTW12461A299497). Secondly, I have read that 3rd party extended warranties are questionable, but how about those from Land Rover (I declined but have 30 days to change my mind). Thanks for any advice..

tincup47

Privacy concerns are very genuine today. Different states have different legal requirements as to what can be disclosed. Normally a printout of a service history would include the name and address of the prior owner. I did check the history on this vehicle and the only warranty repairs required were performed at the 15,000 mile service. Nothing major was done then, a coolant leak was fixed and a light bulb replaced.

tonytwistu2

I"m looking for a rover of some kind,at least I think I want 1. What i want are some pro"s and con"s.Dont know much about them i will admit, but I do love the idea of having 1. I will spend about 8k, so any input will be great.Can a ford dealer work on the LR?

tincup47

No, a Ford dealer will have neither the tools or training to work on Land Rover products. There is no commonality between current or prior Land Rover products and any Ford vehicle.

nanuq

Well, let's not be so fast here. There is *some* commonality... I believe Rovers and Fords both use the same windshield washer fluid. Motor oil viscosity grades may also be the same.

Other than that, I can't think of anything.

tonytwistu2

Can only LR dealerships service the LR? Will it be a huge pain if the closest 1 is 100 miles away? Should i buy domestic because of this?

mrtoad3

Would you be kind enough to look up a service history, build date and date of initial sale for a '00 Range Rover that I am trying to purchase. It has 21K miles and supossedly a clean carfax. It would be a great addition to my '01 Disco II.
Thanks for any information you can acquire.
VIN # SALPF1648YA429639

tincup47

The Range Rover you are looking at was built 9/09/99 and was retailed on 02/25/00. It was last in a Land Rover dealership at 18,281 miles. It has had very minor warranty repairs needed. Looks like it should be a nice vehicle. (I love the white gold/lightstone combination)

mrtoad3

Thank you very much for the info on the RR. I believe the asking price at the dealer is $33000.
I don't think I'll be able to beat that anywhere since dealer retail thru KBB is $38000. wish me luck. We'll drive it today or tomorrow.

roveratlast

Thanks for checking my truck's repair history. It does help to increase my confidence that I made the right purchase decision.

stever

Try a customized appraisal on our Used Car pages here for another point of reference. And check out What is the "Kelley Blue Book" Price?

Good luck!

Steve, Host

cetris

I am the original owner of a '95 Discovery with 63,000 miles on it and a steering box that is leaking bad enough that I am beginning to feel like I should fix it. I have been wiping up puddles of fluid off of my garage floor for about 2 years now, and I am kinda tired of it. The dealer offered to install a remanufactured box for about $800-$900. I have also seen box rebuild kits in British Atlantic's catalog for around $200(?). It appears that the leak is from the seal around the main output shaft, located on the bottom of the box. If this is in fact where the leak is, it appears that it ought to be possible to replace that seal around this shaft without even removing the box from the vehicle (yes, I am lazy). Does anyone know if it is possible to remove the arm connected to the box output shaft, clean the output shaft up, dig out (somehow?) the old seal, and slip another seal up over the output shaft, and then reattach the arm? Sure would be a lot easier and less expensive than tearing the whole thing out of the vehicle and/or replacing the entire box.

Anyone have any experience with this?

Thanks guys,

Chuck- Charlotte, NC
PS- It's in ridiculously clean condition, and I am considering selling it. Maybe.

Caster

So my wife and I have been looking to purchase a new vehicle for about three months now. We decided on a new '03 Disco. We walk into the dealership and take it for another drive. Things seem great, I've got a check in my pocket to drive home the new ride. We walk back in to start the paperwork and my wife, six months pregnant, asks "Could you tell me where the bathroom is?" The salesman replies with "I could" and proceeds to sit there silent. That was enough, my wife and I were out of there. Anyway we bought an '03 Lexus GX470. I guess what we might have given up in off road prowess, we gained in safety (side curtain airbag etc) and overall luxury. It rides really nice and we are happy with it. I was looking forward to being part of the family on this BB but we just couldn't do it after the treatment we received. Good Luck with the LR's. I'll check in periodically

gadisco

Hello all,
I now have 80k miles on my 97 Disco, and I have been looking to possibly replace the shocks and add a better rear swaybar to add cornering stability. I have heard that both the Bilstein and Old Man EMU shocks are the best replacements--does anyone have any good advice on the "wise" choice? (I mainly commute 75 miles each way on the expressway during the week and do some offroading on the weekends) some advice on the rear swaybar would be appreciated also. I have only had the Disco for 3+ weeks and am not sure what is best for the suspension. My background with vehicles is mainly in the High Performance end. Thanks for any help or advice.

Alan

nanuq

Some people say you can put in 3 or 4 tablespoons of brake fluid into your steering fluid (ATF) to help swell the leaky seals. Knock on wood, mine isn't leaking (rats I know I shouldn't have said that) so I can't vouch for this.

jeepcherokee

Tincup,

Just purchased an '02 DII SE. I was told that a new transfer case was installed under warranty. It has 19K on it now. Have the transfer cases been a problem? The VIN is SALTY12442A737042. Can you check for any other warranty issues for me please? Also, I noticed a small leak at the top of the passenger side A-pillar. Are the sunroof drain tubes fed through this area? Thanks for all your help on this board.

tincup47

I don't see any replacement on the transfer case for this vehicle. Some units have had replacements for excessive noise, but there has not been an issue with functionality. As to warranty history, this vehicle has had quite a few leaks repaired, nothing much of a serious nature.
 The sunroof drain tubes for the front sunroof do go down the A-pillars, but there could be other reasons for a leak also. I personally avoid telling service writers what I think might be the actual cause of a problem as when they put it on a repair order the techs will generally limit their effort to checking that specific item. If it isn't the problem you will likely get the dreaded "No problem found" or "could not duplicate the problem"

disco99

I recently posted about a knocking "diesel " type sound that was coming from my engine-it finally stopped after I switched from Mobil 1 5w30 synths to castrol 10w30 synths blends--Better lubrication I guess....
has anyone had any power steering pump leaks? Mine is very minor--Is there any I can do to stop it---
thanks to all for all prior tips-

jeepcherokee

Thanks Tincup. Do you recall what kind of leaks you saw on my DII? (fluid or water)? So far, she doesn't leave any drops on the garage floor (knock on wood). Also, are the wood accents in the SE models real or is it some sort of laminate? Thanks again for your help.

nanuq

My truck has had a mild "diesel" sound to it from day one. It used to bug me, but now at 83k miles I find it just part of her character. She uses no oil and runs like a scalded cat so I'm a happy guy.

I experimented with different oil filters for awhile. I read good things about WIX filters and I know the WIX alternate to the Fram PH8A will fit... and with that BIG filter body full of material I figured it would be a "more of a good thing" situation. Problem was, on cold start it was busy enough filling that BIG filter body with oil that it would knock occasionally until it got pumped up. That really drove me nuts so I switched back to the standard filter size. No more cold start knocks.

I've settled on some lubes that just seem to work well. For my motorcycle I use Castrol GTX 20-50, it's the one oil that lasts more than 1000 miles before the shifting goes bad. So I figured I'd try it in the truck. For the Rover in summer it's Castrol 10-30 non synthetic, changed at least every 3k miles. I use a Purolator Premium or WIX filter. In winter it's Castrol Syntec 5-50w. For the swivels and diffs and transfer box it's 85-120w synthetic.

About your weeping power steering box, try putting 3 or 4 tablespoons of brake fluid into your reservoir. It's supposed to swell the seals and buy you some more life.

Best regards, -Bob

nholmes

I've been researching this board for a while. I finally bit the bullet and bought a new 2003. I received a great deal and the customer service was outstanding.

I've read about the quirks but they are no worse than the quirks on my old 97 Expedition and 93 Jeep Grand Cherokee.

blockislandguy

Nanuq, I thought that all good oil filters had a check valve that prevents the oil from draining out and having a dry start? (I think the check valve also will close if clogged so dirty oil won't go thru the lube system as well.)

Please advise.

opera_house_wk

I've opened a lot of used oil filters and found that most check valves (unless they are the orange silicone) don't seal very well after a few months of use. The older PH8A were particularly bad. The older design restricted cold flow at startup to protect he filter media from collapsing and forced the filter to go into bypass mode. As a positive, I think the filter media actually filtered better than some others when it was filtering. The check valve deformed more than other makes and would leak. In the last year they have been re designed and they are just like everyone else's filter. In colder climates I would prefer the FL1A because it has the bypass valve on the top of the filter. It is a fact of life that all filters will go into bypass when the oil is cold. No need to push the dregs you've filtered out into the engine if you don't have to. In the warmer months, any filter will do.

I believe the problem you were having with the older PH8A was the result of the internal flow restriction at startup and not the check valve leaking

nanuq

I was using the WIX equivalent to the PH8A, not the Fram filter. I believe it's the WIX 51515. You're right, a good antidrainback keeps the lube in the filter until you start it again. You can look down in the opening and see it at the far end of the fill tube on most filters, and the good valves are made of something like silicon that takes longer to get stiff and fail (wink).

I'd always thought a bigger filter is better, but darned if it didn't shape up when I went back to the stock filter housing size. Beats me! I wonder if it had something to do with keeping the volume of oil small between the filter / passages / oil pump, so it couldn't drain back from the oil pump into the filter body? But that would imply a poor seal at the antidrainback valve... so I dunno.

Here's a good study of oil filters:

http://minimopar.net/oilfilterstudy.html#pl30001

disco99

I'll add some brake fluid to the steering box and try a different oil filter-I'll keep you posted--

A note on my disco II-clearly the best 4x4 Ive ever driven--(knock on wood)--what a hobby-At 85mph the truck's ride is still very smooth. It makes me laugh when Jeep owners come on this forum to bash a truck-most of them have never driven.
regards to all

megator

Can anyone tell me how this vehicle really corners without the ACE option? I'm told it's fine, but in normal high-speed freeway exiting, how does it really perform? No crazy driving, just normal cornering.

Also, is there a way to tell this option is actually on the vehicle? I'd hate to just trust a dealer's word, especially if I buy from a lot other than Land Rover. Email me at imageworksfl@att.net, if you have any input - much appreciated. Thanks---

nanuq

I've driven everything from Sunbeam Tigers in autocross to my '96 Disco Series I and I'd have to put the Rover at the "sedate" end of the cornering spectrum. Granted I have tall sidewall tires and tall suspension and still she goes around corners great. I have never pushed her hard enough to understeer the front tires but she'll generate some impressive side forces on offramps.

Remember this is a tall heavy vehicle. I would NOT push one hard enough to slide the tires on pavement, you're just too close to that fine edge. But in normal driving, not gonzo on/offramp work, she'll be just fine.

Funny thing is, they feel like you're running around on tall springs... which you are. Your passengers will look at you funny the first couple times they ride with you. It's a hoot!

To see if a truck has ACE, I understand there are hydraulics connected vertically at the ends of the antisway bars. My non-ACE truck just has the usual hard connections. It should be pretty easy to see the difference.

I hope this helps, -Bob

miked03

I would not pay extra for ACE, and remember ACE is not going to prevent the vehicle from a roll over, if that's what your thinking. The funny thing is, when I shopping for my '03 Disco the sales pitch for ACE was "you don't need it".

The disco corners fine within the speed limit, feels solid and you have a great view of the turn ahead, even on those on/off ramps. If you feel uncertain, test both the ACE and non-ACE versions at the dealer.

smarticus

I have owned several non ace and ace Discoveries in the last few years and would certainly choose an ACE equipped vehicle every time in future. The handing on a none ACE vehicle is perfectly adequate but on an ACE equipped you can hustle the vehicle through corners better than a vehicle this size has any right to do. Mind you, we do live in a world of small twisty country lanes. There are other advantages to ACE though - there is far less sway on corners so the kids dont get sick and your luggage, pets, cans of coke etc all stay put. The slight disadvantage is a noticeably harder ride on broken surfaces. I originally worried about extra components but have never heard of any problems with the ACE system in any Disco, even ones given a hard time offroad. I really cannot understand why more SUV's aren't fitted with this system.

mrwhipple

The vehicle is nothing short of amazing in handling corners, without the ACE.

It's quite a difference with the '03 from the previous models.

There is simply no need for it.