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Right To Repair - A Hot Issue or Big Problem?

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Comments

  • doofus54doofus54 Posts: 21
    Auto companies reap the rewards by selling cars.They also reap rewards by selling the rights to their technology to the makers of the tools independents need to remain competetive.The last thing we need is another monopoly to enable dealers to screw us even more than they already are for what should be simple, cheap repairs.Like thirty eight bucks for a twelve inch long rubber boot. Disgusting.
  • srlech2srlech2 Posts: 1
    Hi i have a question you mention none of the devices mentioned will repair SRS airbags. Do you know of any devices that will reset GM airbag control modules? i have been looking all over for about 6 months and cannot for the life of me find a tool that will reset the modules. i have people that claim the tools do it and a salesman will come down to the shop and try to reset it and i end up sending them home without a sale...

    steve
  • 0patience0patience Posts: 1,542
    The OTC Genisys scanner with SRS module and the OTC Tech 2 scanner will do SRS and ABS.
    Both these units are $3,000-4,000

    The other option is the OTC3762 Air Bag/ABS Scan Tool which is about $1500.

    The Tech 2 is made for GM, so it will do far more than just airbags.
  • photog1photog1 Posts: 2
    I HAVE A 01' DODGE DAKOTA 4 DOOR 4X4. I WAS OPENING THE D/S WINDOW AND I HEARD A BANG AND THE WINDOW JUST FELL DOWN. I REMOVED THE PANEL AND DISCOVERED THE GLASS WAS OUT OF THE TRACK AND THE CABLE WAS LOOSE. I PRETTY MUCH FIGURED OUT HOW THE WHOLE THING WORKS EXCEPT THE CABLE ROUTING. ALSO I'M NOT SURE WHAT KEEPS THE WINDOW FRAME UP. I SEE THE CABLE PULLS DOWN ON THE FRAME BUT WHEN YOU RUN THE MOTOR THE OTHER WAY THE CABLE GETS SLACK AND THE FRAME DOSEN'T GO BACK UP UNLESS I PUSH IT BY HAND AND KEEP TENSION ON THE CABLE. COULD SOME ONE PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW THIS WORKS AND WHAT I NEED TO DO TO CORRECT IT. I'M AN AIRCRAFT MECHANIC SO I UNDERSTAND MECHANICAL WORKINGS, I'M JUST NOT FAMILIAR WITH THIS SET UP. ANY HELP WILL BE GREATLY APPRECIATED.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    You may want to try finding a Dakota specific forum. It would greatly increase the chances of someone with experience seeing your post, and being able to give advise. Good luck
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,883
    photog--elroy is right, this ain't the place for you. But I'll direct you to a topic that might help you, since professional technicians often visit there:

    Got a Technical Question?

    MODERATOR

  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Photog,

    Sounds like you lost a window regulator to me...
  • bottgersbottgers Posts: 2,027
    ...the auto makers may even want to go as far as making it illegal for vehicle owners to do their own regular maintenance such as changing fluids and filters, rotating tires, etc. This is just getting ridiculous!
  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,274
    Well, I wouldn't believe anything like that.

    Fact is, modern cars are very complex and represent a significant investment on the part of the motor co's.
    Alot of proprietary info goes into a modern car.

    It is the same in alot of other products.
    Only their maker is equipped to fix them.

    Given how fast cars are changing, esp as more esoteric powerplants come along, it will be virtually impossible for a DIY'er or an Indy mechanic to fix a car,let alone service one.
  • rockfish1rockfish1 Posts: 113
    Where did you hear that?
    I don't know how auto makers could make anything "illegal". They could void warranties if a DIY'er tries to "FIX" or upgrade parts under warranty. As for routine maintenance prohibition, a lot of tire companies, oil changers and independents would be quite upset.
  • 0patience0patience Posts: 1,542
    the auto makers may even want to go as far as making it illegal for vehicle owners to do their own regular maintenance

    At one time [a very long time ago], some of the manufacturers were pushing for repairs to be done by certified/licensed mechanics, such as is done in some countries.
    But they met quick resistance by groups who pretty much shoved the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act in their faces, so it was dropped as quickly as it was mentioned.

    Given how fast cars are changing, esp as more esoteric powerplants come along, it will be virtually impossible for a DIY'er or an Indy mechanic to fix a car,let alone service one.

    I have to disagree with that. They are complex, there is no question about it, but the aftermarket tooling is keeping a fairly decent pace with them.
    Add to the fact that Indy shops are paying for that training more and more every day. I don't work for a dealer, yet I go to GM and Ford training every year.

    It is the same in alot of other products.
    Only their maker is equipped to fix them.


    But a lot of DIYers still fix alot of other products.
    There are mechanics out there who would love to require auto owners to not be able to work on their vehicles, but they are the same ones who would do their own plumbing and electrical in their house. Even though a licensed elctrician or plumber is required, homeowners are not required to be licensed in most states.
    So those types of people are hypocrites.

    They could void warranties if a DIY'er tries to "FIX" or upgrade parts under warranty

    Nope, they can't. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act specifically prohibits them from doing that.
    They can void warranties for using inferior parts or non-approved aftermarket parts, but they cannot void a warranty, because someone does their own repairs and service, provided the repairs are done properly.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,274
    I have to disagree with that. They are complex, there is no question about it, but the aftermarket tooling is keeping a fairly decent pace with them.
    Add to the fact that Indy shops are paying for that training more and more every day. I don't work for a dealer, yet I go to GM and Ford training every year.


    no offense, but current ford's and Chevy's are pretty simple cars compared to a BMW, Volvo, Mercedes.
    Evena Prius.

    No indy mechanic can gain the same proficiency as a dealer mechanic that only works on 1 brand of car.
    Next, there are the computer issues.
    Most lux and even soem immport makers have their own dedicated computer networks.
    You either have to buy theri machine, or subscribe to their network.
    It isn't cheap either way.
    Most indy mechanics bring us the cars that require software work,and that is most Volvo's after 2000.
    This isn't about changing oil, or rotating tires.
    That is simple and likely to stay that way.
    Fixing a broken car is complicated and getting more so every day.
  • 0patience0patience Posts: 1,542
    Really?
    no offense, but current ford's and Chevy's are pretty simple cars compared to a BMW, Volvo, Mercedes.

    I have Volvo Factory traiing every year too.
    I understand what you are saying and agree in some parts, but that is that mentallity that dealers have that is irritating to the rest of the industry and why the right to repair act was even started.

    As for the software work, since Volvo requires access to their main systems to reprogram, I guess they have everyone by the (you know whats). Indies can't very well do something that the manufacturer won't supply to the outside market.

    I guess I don't know anything about fixing cars, so I'lll shut up.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,274
    I have Volvo Factory traiing every year too.

    Really? Where do you do your training?

    As for the software work, since Volvo requires access to their main systems to reprogram, I guess they have everyone by the (you know whats). Indies can't very well do something that the manufacturer won't supply to the outside market.

    Volvo will supply it. For a helluva fee.
    Most indy's can't/won't spend the money for it.
    Which is why we end up doing all their computer work.

    Sooner or later, this approach will trickle down to the mass marketed cars.
    Lux makers like Volvo, Lexus, Benz etc are at the forefront of this, but it will find its way to Honda's and Chevy's.

    I guess I don't know anything about fixing cars, so I'lll shut up.

    Relax, there are still plenty of old cars to fix.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,561
    What I want is an OBDII cord that ends up at a USB port on my computer. I log in and Volvo tells me there are 2 new critical updates and an optional update if I want to let my 80 pound standard poodle sit in the passenger seat without triggering the fasten seat belt light. And btw, my left rear tire inflation is more than 3% different from my other 3 tires, and my plugs have 68% of life left in them based on the platinum erosion.

    Yeah, I'm old school - I guess a wireless download right to the car on Tuesday nights at 3 am would be ok. :P

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • rockfish1rockfish1 Posts: 113
    I would like that also BUT having all the sensors to relay that info and make it user friendly would jack up the price of the car even more than it is now. Then you have to determine if the component is defective or the sensor is incorrectly functioning. I guess everything is a trade off between paying for an intelligent car up front or paying more to try and replace parts later in the car's life.
  • 0patience0patience Posts: 1,542
    Really? Where do you do your training?
    Portland and Seattle mostly.
    Other times, they bring in some folks from Volvo on site to do the training.

    Volvo will supply it. For a helluva fee.
    Most indy's can't/won't spend the money for it.
    Which is why we end up doing all their computer work.

    Interesting. Beings as the programming is sent from Volvo to the dealer's computer to the vehicle through an interface. Curious as to how an independant can get Volvo to do that, when they won't even do it for large fleets who make the provisions part of their contract.

    Besides, you are using the arrogance of the "luxury" vehicle manufacturers, which is why the Right to Repair act was started in the first place.
    The idea that ONLY the dealer mechanics should be able to fix their brand of vehicles.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,274
    nteresting. Beings as the programming is sent from Volvo to the dealer's computer to the vehicle through an interface. Curious as to how an independant can get Volvo to do that, when they won't even do it for large fleets who make the provisions part of their contract.

    Hmm.
    I don't think that you know how Volvo does their software downloads.
    Which, if you were factory trained you would know.
    Volvo uses VIDA, which is an internet based system.
    That means anyone who can access the web address, and get Volvo's operational software downloaded to their PC or laptop can use the system.

    See what I mean about Indy's not being up to spec?
  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,274
    the problem with that is that most people simply aren't savvy enough to know HOW to apply that information.
    People screw up their computers all the time because they try to change something and don't know how to do it.
    Cars are not different. They are just rolling computers.
    Imagine how pissed you would be if you downloaded, say a software update for the suspension module and you Xenon headlights went off aim. Which has happened.
    Without the proper training, you would know that you have to re-calibrate the headlight aiming.
    Volvo( or any other car co.) simply can't take the time to make their software idiot proof, or lay person friendly.
    Nor can they set up the necessary hot lines so cutomers can fix what they screw up.
    sometimes it can take the dealer days to hear from volvo baout a software issue.
  • 0patience0patience Posts: 1,542
    Volvo uses VIDA, which is an internet based system.
    That means anyone who can access the web address, and get Volvo's operational software downloaded to their PC or laptop can use the system.

    Yep, seems that both VIDA and VCADS Volvo will not allow downloads outside of the dealer's computers. Or at least they haven't. That was the information that we were provided.

    If that has changed in the last year, then that is good to know.
  • 0patience0patience Posts: 1,542
    the problem with that is that most people simply aren't savvy enough to know HOW to apply that information.
    That is arrogance at its best.

    To be honest, I pay little attention to the automotive part, mostly because trucks are what I do.
    If it weren't for the truck portion of Volvo, they'd be just another car to me.

    The whole point of this thread is the "Right to Repair Act".
    Not, "I can puff my chest up further than you".

    So, if you want to get back on track with the discussion, that would be nice. If not, then I am wasting my time with this discussion.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,274
    It's not arrogance, its the truth.

    You are a shining example.
    Volvo Truck is completely separate from Volvo Cars.
    They have different owners,different everything.

    You have a little info, on a completely different company,and you are not applying it properly.
  • 0patience0patience Posts: 1,542
    Yep, I am a shining example. :P
    You are welcome to have your opinion.
    You're right, I don't know anything at all.
    I bow to your almighty knowledge of cars, you sure told me.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    You don't have to see everything the same way, but let's not make this personal, please.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,883
    I have to confess that while I am totally in favor of giving the consumer access to whatever information he wants, I'm not so sure I really support the American system of auto repair, which would allow a 12 year old to open up a garage and work on your brakes, should you choose to let him.

    However, I sure don't want another regulatory body in place, so I don't know how to solve the issue.

    Perhaps you'd require at least an automotive degree in order to get a business license?

    You can't (theoretically) do commercial electrical contract work without a license, so why can you work on brakes commercially with zero zip zilch training?

    And defense of "free market" doesn't work for me so well, because any fool can hang a sign out that says "Brake Experts" with no supervision or penalty unless they kill someone.

    MODERATOR

  • 0patience0patience Posts: 1,542
    I do agree with you on that point.
    State certifications should b required, just like electricians, plumbers, etc.
    Funny thing is, I had to get a license to work on LP/Natural gas plumbing on some of the trailers, but don't have to have it to work on LP powered engines.
    Makes a lot of sense.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,274
    Which is yeta nother reason to get your car fixwed at the dealership.
    At least you know that you are dealing with licensed, competent people.
  • Which is yeta nother reason to get your car fixwed at the dealership.
    At least you know that you are dealing with licensed, competent people.


    Unless it is a VW dealer... :P
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,883
    LOL! I guess he forgot the asterisk!

    MODERATOR

  • estrekaestreka Posts: 28
    I disagree. In the state of Texas, you are required to have an electrician license to perform electrical work for money. Unfortunately, in order to get the license, you must work for a major contractor for 12 years.
    Why you ask? Mr. Perry (of Perry Homes, THE major homebuilder in the state of Texas) is a state senator who formed an oversight committee to establish laws regarding homebuilding and engineering. Guess who chairs the committee? Yep, Mr. Perry.
    So basically, you have to work for Perry Homes for 12 years in order to go into business for yourself. By that time, you're either way up the food chain and thinking about retirement, or you're intending to be a support asset for Perry Homes.

    I could easily see the same thing happening to mechanics.
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