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Lincoln Navigator

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  • navigator3740navigator3740 Posts: 279
    Visited the dealer today, and yes, an engineering change sometime in the last few months, removed that second set of seat buttons, which is a bummer, and something I would hate to do without. They did, however, add another set of tweeters to the A pillar for the stereo that mine doesn't have. Grrrrrrr. That's bound to be an improvement, however, the button loss is a bad move on their part.
  • lani5lani5 Posts: 17
    Has any 2003 Lincoln Nav owner experienced any problems with closing the power rear liftgate either via the key remote or overhead control? For the past two months of ownership of this beautiful vehicle, I have had intermittent problems with closing the rear liftgate. It either closes as it should or it goes down a quarter of the way (sometimes 3/4 of the way) and then goes back up as if it senses something in the way. I have to engage the key remote or overhead control at least 5 times (with a reasonable wait time in between, and using the same method as opening) before it finally settles down and closes properly. This is so frustrating.

    Before I took ownership in March 2003, the rear liftgate motor had to be replaced as the rear liftgate didn't even open at all. Should have known then not to choose this car on the lot, but it was the 4x2 Ultimate package, black on black, very nice.

    In the past two months, I've been to the service department 5 times; each time the service manager has not been able to duplicate the problem. My husband even showed him and his technicians the very recent videotape I filmed of just this problem --- clear as can be.

    Was told that since they didn't see the problem first-hand, I had to go along with what Ford Motor Co.'s customer service representative said I had to do --- document each time the problem arose, listing the time and location. However, no one could tell me how long of a documentation was needed for the problem to be "accepted" and, therefore, be covered under warranty.

    Does anyone have any advice? Any help would be appreciated. Thank you!
  • lani5lani5 Posts: 17
    To auburn96, yes, I also have the same problem you have when accessing the DVD player on my 03 Nav. I cannot get it to start by using the media button. I have to eject the DVD and reinsert it to play, too. Been having power rear liftgate problems so I have had to shelve this other issue for now. Perhaps someone will have a solution?
  • navigator3740navigator3740 Posts: 279
    It is difficult for the service department to deal with phantom issues. It's not that they don't believe us, but if it can't be demonstrated, it's hard to identify what's wrong, and Ford won't pay for it. I usually wait until it gets bad enough to demonstrate reliably, or will leave the car until they can get it to do it. Example: Once I had a Continental that made a "funny noise" under the hood, but you could only hear it inside the car, not under the hood. It was intermittant too. I've bought enough cars at this dealership that I was able to convince them to give me a loaner, and have the service manager drive my car until he heard it. 3 days later, he heard it, stopped the car immediately, and found it was a defective throttle cable vibrating.

    Admittedly, you need some cooperation from the service department, but depending on how often this happens, I'd press it. You don't pay $55M for a car, and tolerate annoying problems like that. At least, I don't. So far, in over a decade of Lincolns, I've always won, and rarely have had to be nasty about it. If all this fails, call Lincoln. They need to put a new motor in and try that. Good luck!
  • lani5lani5 Posts: 17
    Thank you for your thoughtful suggestion. Yes, I will definitely press on in spite of this, as you appropriately tagged, phantom issue. What is frustrating is the fact that the original motor was already replaced and this new one aces all their computer diagnostic tools. No code errors determined by computer; hence, no problem.

    Can't seem to understand why the service manager would not accept a non-digital videotape (with over 20 liftgate malfunctions filmed) of the problem. He had thought it was a good idea in the first place! In your experience, does videotaping have any value as proof that this problem exists?
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Well, it will help you in court! You might want to mention that to the Service Mgr, General Mgr, and the Lincoln Hot Line if it goes that far. And don't let them have the only copy.

    You make a good point about the computer diagnostics though, and they do have a problem there. No error codes generally means, Ford won't pay for them to go exploring for problems. It's the manufacturers way of stopping some dealer fraud. An error code gives authorization to repair. Otherwise, a lot of paperwork has to go in to justify the repair. But keep trying. Don't give up! You may need to demand a factory rep look at the car. I'd be marching into the General Manager's office by now.....with a copy of the video tape. What's your lemon law in that state?
  • lani5lani5 Posts: 17
    Thank you for your support, nvbanker. As of this afternoon, the dealer's Parts and Service Director has finally agreed to arrange for a Field Service Engineer (FSE), who is supposedly the technical guru about Navigators, to take a look at my car and the videotape to determine the cause of the problem.

    I've also contacted the Lincoln Hot Line five times now --- each time my concerns have been documented. Got to the point where the supervisor there gave me his direct line and said he will monitor my situation and make sure the dealership and its service dept. go out of their way to make sure this problem gets resolved accordingly. He certainly viewed my videotape as a logical step and was surprised that the service manager didn't do anything more after seeing the tape. I say, an inch towards progress.

    Yes, the lemon law in California certainly applies to this situation. We'll see if the FSE can pinpoint a solution to this perplexing problem before I go this route. Good point in bringing this up.

    Patience (plus doggone, teeth-in-the pantleg determination) is the key here, isn't it?

    Thank you again!
  • navigator3740navigator3740 Posts: 279
    Now, you're getting somewhere. I have a friend who had an Excursion that pulled to the left when the brakes were applied. Ford dealer replaced pretty much the whole front end, and couldn't get it to stop doing it. They bought the car back for research and she got to pick out a new one off the lot, and the car was over a year old a the time. I was impressed! Your problem isn't safety related, but my experience with Ford of late is they want their customers to be happy, even if the dealer doesn't show it.
  • auburn96auburn96 Posts: 43
    Let us know what is finally the diagnosis to your lift gate problem. I haven't noticed any problem with the lift gate until today when the gate almost to the bottom and then started going up again I hit the button and it immediately came back down and latched. I know in the past I learned that if it is not closed all the way when you put the Navi in gear it opens, but this was not the case this time.
  • lani5lani5 Posts: 17
    You're right, navigator3740. Ford should want to keep its customers happy. It seems my problem is generating interest from Lincoln Mercury people. Just today I received a full-length survey on my experiences with the customer service representatives who have documented my car's liftgate problem and with the dealership who failed to provide the kind of customer service it's been touting to the public. They're going to get an earful all right.

    This Lincoln dealership is brand new, too--- just opened two months. You would think its top brass down to their service managers would want to establish a good rapport with us Lincoln owners and ensure we have a great experience with their vehicles. The only person in that dealership who showed any class was Jose, the shuttle driver.

    We'll keep our fingers crossed for a positive outcome.
  • lani5lani5 Posts: 17
    Auburn96, that is how my Nav started the week after we drove it out of the dealer's parking lot. I hope yours was just a fluke and not the beginning of a frustrating experience. Yes, I will definitely keep you posted. If your Nav's liftgate continues to malfunction, you may want to consider reporting it to Lincoln Customer Service. I've been told that my problem has been forwarded to their engineering department for analysis and they would welcome any other documentation just in case there is a possibility of a recall.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    While I have not experienced this phenomenon (yet), I have noted that the rear door does have a reverse trip mechanism, like a modern garage door, that when it encounters an obstruction doing down or up, it will either stop if going up, or reverse if going down. Obviously a good thing to avoid damage or squishing in the case of going down. If your door was binding somehow, or if the trip was overly sensitive, it could easily cause this to occur. You'd think there would be an adjustment that could easily fix it, or if not, replacing this component should fix it. This is not rocket science really, and a good engineer should be able to take care of it.
  • lani5lani5 Posts: 17
    Yes, I definitely agree with you, nvbanker. This not being rocket science, a good engineer should be able to take care of this rear liftgate problem and, therefore, establish the much sought-after "error code" that the Service Manager was so adamant about seeing on his diagnostic computer. Perhaps the reverse trip mechanism is overly sensitive or somehow was "damaged" when the first motor was replaced.

    What needs to happen next is for the Parts and Service Director to call back today with news that he has secured an appointment with the field service engineer. We'll see then if Lincoln actually follows through on its commitment to service.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I'm dying to see how they deal with this issue. My buddy has a new Aviator that has a mystery electrical glitch that has them scratching their heads here. Once again, no error codes, but the antilock brake light comes on, and the turn signals become inoperable all at the same time, but randomly. They at least can demonstrate it easily, but can't figure out why the car does it.
    They are being very nice about it, but inept at fixing it.
  • gator2003gator2003 Posts: 2
    TO ALL NEW GATOR OWNERS

      I HAVE HAD MY GATOR SINCE OCT 2002. LAST WEEK I STARTED THE TRUCK PRESSED THE BRAKE AND TRIED TO PRESS THE GEAR SHIFT KNOB TO PUT THE TRUCK IN DRIVE. ONLY TO FIND OUT THAT THE GEAR SHIFT BUTTON WOULD NOT DEPRESS SO I COULD MOVE THE GEAR SHIFT TO DRIVE. I HAD TO POP UP THE HOUSING AROUND THE GEAR SHIFT KNOB IN ORDER TO MANUALLY PUSH DOWN THE LITTLE WHITE BUTTON IN ORDER TO GET THE BUTTON ON THE KNOB TO DEPRESS SO THE GEAR SHIFT COULD BE MOVED TO DRIVE. I FOUND THIS OUT BY LOOKING IN THE OWNERS MANUAL. THIS HAPPENS ONLY ONCE IN A WHILE. I TOOK IT TO THE DEALER BUT THEY CAN'T GET IT TO HAPPEN. ANYONE ELSE HAD THIS PROBLEM YET?
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    The only problems related to this I have had, have been user error.....like couldn't get the key out of the ignition one day, but realized I hadn't put the car in park yet later. Very embarrassing, particularly after what I said.....
  • lani5lani5 Posts: 17
    Inept is the correct word for describing the dealership I've had the misfortune to be dealing with, nvbanker. The Parts and Service Director didn't even have the decency to call back with word that he had set up the appointment with the Field Service Engineer to examine the malfunctioning rear liftgate. Where's the "Lincoln Commitment" here??? I'm beginning to suspect something fishy going on --- perhaps the original motor was never really replaced as I was told. I had to contact the Team Leader (a supervisor) at Lincoln Customer Service to push through with an appointment.

    Even with that, The P&S Director delegated the task of calling me to his Service Manager who then contacted me from his home as he had the day off from work. They wanted me to leave my car overnight. What for? I could easily drive it to the service bay first thing in the morning when the FSE is there. Something fishy, I say.

    It took another call to the Team Leader to finally get the P&S Director to contact me directly and confirm my appointment with the FSE next Tuesday, May 20th. This is worse than pulling teeth...

    At this point, I'm thankful that the Team Leader followed through on Lincoln's customer service philosophy. We'll see what happens next Tuesday.
  • ford624ford624 Posts: 75
    It seems that many editors and consumers believe that the Navigator would be a better vehicle if it had a more powerful engine. Which engine do you believe will satisfy most all concerned? Could it be a supercharged dohc 5.4, or a dohc v-10, or how about a supercharged dohc v-10?
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Keep the heat on. I think about your situation each time I (successfully) open and close the rear door. I just can't believe this is such a problem. I would hate to be a service writer at that dealership......

    ford624: I don't know what I would do with more power honestly. I have towed cars up some long and steep grades, and my engine doesn't even break a sweat, rarely kicks down the gear. I have never understood those reviews that call the Nav "underpowered" after 1998. It was weak in 98, but from 99 on, it was plenty peppy for my needs.

    Now, the Tahoe with 5.7, or the Sequoia - THOSE are under powered! That's why everybody I know put flowmasters on them immediately to boost the output.

    So, I have no need or interest in blowing or upsizing the Nav engine. Seems good to me..
  • ford624ford624 Posts: 75
    I want to accept what you say nvbanker .
    BUT.
    Why then does Edmunds Rating Editors have what is written below in its comments?
    Cons
    Engine falls short of some of its competitors',
    Plus.
    Squeaky wheels most always get attention.
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