Lincoln Navigator

akirby

They just lost interest and found other stuff to entertain them. Most of our road trips are 4-5 hours. Your kids may be totally different and use it all the time. Hard to tell.

ANT14

Cherry Flavored Nyquil Cookies anyone ??

Kids in this generation are spoiled quite a bit by the parents. I remember riding in my mother's car when I was a child (front seat, since airbags weren't common then) and if my finger even made contact with the radio faceplate, I would get a hard whack on my arm for even attempting it.

Now I see my bestfriends child and how she has a canniption when her mother doesn't play the nursery rhyme CD as she was accustomed to listening to... Well nothing that doing 75MPH and opening just the rear car windows won't cure.

texasmom

Does anybody know of a more active Navigator forum somewhere? Maybe it's a good sign that there aren't a lot of posts on the Navigator, but, somehow I doubt that the Navigator is any more trouble-free or confusion-free than any other vehicle. Maybe somebody will see this post and tell me of a more active Lincoln Navigator forum/owner's club/board that I can check out. Sure hope so!

stever

This is it; keep posting and you'll get all the replies you need :-)

Steve, Host

nvbanker

You think this is quiet? You should take a look at the Town Car boards!!

texasmom

Well, at least you are around. I've read some of your suggestions and they impress me very much. As long as people like you are out there answering Lincoln questions that do come up, then it's okay.
I like asking a question on a forum because it doesn't put anybody on the spot to come up with an answer. If someone has some knowledge, they'll share it if they are willing. Awhile back I was worried that I should get a 4 WD Navigator instead of a 2WD because of something a neighbor said. I brought my concerns to this board and got some very logical answers and useful information--that most of weight is unsprung, etc., which helped me make a decision. I got those answers pretty quickly.
So thank you, thank you all very much.

texasmom

Was reading back to earlier posts and came across this adivce:
"And relating to SUV's, when in higher speed's (Such as highway) where full braking pressure must be applied, NEVER turn the wheel. Just slam the brakes, let ABS do the work and just brace to hit the object because if you jerk the wheel, your gonna flip. It's better to just hit the item and at least have the frontal structure absorb the impact (or kill whatever animal jumps in the way) then risking a flip where one hit on the roofing structure member's might leave you paralyzed."

I keep wondering about this because deer frequently step onto the highways around here. In my minivan I've swerved while braking to avoid hitting them. Once I think I felt the wheels on one side of the minivan sort of slightly lose contact with the road. It REALLY scared me.
I wasn't braking really hard, not hard enough to make the ABS come into play. I don't know if I did the right thing. I mean, I didn't hit the deer, by ten feet's grace, but, when I told this story to friends they didn't have any advice except that my insurance wouldn't hold me responsible if I hit a deer.
I keep thinking of a deer's horns or hooves coming through the windshield and breaking my neck--which is why I did what I did a few months ago.
Now that I'll be driving a vehicle with more roll over potential than a minivan, I'm starting to think I should study some sort of "tall vehicle" driving manual.
Is there such a thing? And if the deer is pretty far ahead, can I use the brakes conservatively while swerving? I guess there's no way to know just what "conservatively" means, so I'll say, applying definite pressure, but not slamming.

ANT14

Oh that would be my advice I gave....

Minivan's are car based, so the reactions within that, and a larger Body on Frame truck, vary greatly.

I'm not sure if there's a book out there that explains as you stated. IN the case where you sweared in the minivan, that was good. Actually many people could swerve out of such an incident, but where the majority fail, is on the out-take of the procedure. As in, anyone can turn the wheel to avoid an object, but as you do so, the whole law of physics come into play, and there's motions/energies traveling through and around the vehicles axis points.... GETTING out of of the swerve, is where the majority of people flip the vehicles.

IN the case of a truck based SUV, I've been able to swerve on the first avoidance manuver, but as soon as you do, instead of "over correcting" the swerve (which is where people lose control), keep the vehicle going str8 for a few seconds (to allow for the lateral forces to dicipate) then (if you still need to swerve again) do so at a lesser speed. And in this case, do not apply full/hard/medium (if possible, try not to even step on the brakes)...brake pressure. The more pressure you place on your brake pedal, the more the rear of the vehicle will want to swear outward and flip (this is DURING a swear).

When you slam on the brakes and full pressure is applied (any vehicle) will nose dive, pushing the majority of the weight forward...BUT if you swear AS you brake hard, then your opening the door for the rear of the vehicle to slip out. NOW on a cars this is controlled because they are closer to the ground. Taller vehicles with a higher gravity point, prefer to step out.

If you remember waaayyy back when ABS was becoming more common, you would see TV commercials promoting. STOMP, SWERVE, STOP for passenger cars, but this doesn't always apply to taller vehicles.

There's a few things you can do on your own (safely in an empty parking lot at night), just on light speeds around 20-25MPH, swerve, while slamming the brakes, swear without it. Stomp on the brakes fuill pressure for going straight... And while you won't flip the vehicle because of the slow speeds, you will notice slight changes on how the body swerves and such. I myself allow someone else to do this test, while I'm on the passenger's seat blind folded (your able to FEEL your vehicle more this way)... And you will notice the changes in body motion, as you do these turns. And this gives you a taste of what it will be like at a lesser scale, BUT keep in mind, doing this at 40MPH+ speeds will definately multiply the feeling, as well as the risks.

Personally, get a good vehicle with Stability Control, with Roll-Over Sensors, and it'll do the majority of the work without having to bother with the above examples. If I had to do an SUV now, I would pick the Volvo XC90 because it has that system available, and because the roof structure is composed of boron steel which allows the vehicle to roll over a few times, without the roof caving in. While sometimes you can try and avoid an accident, when you can, then it's important to have the equipment that can save you. Or as my mother tells me "If you screw up beyond belief, at least go out with a bang".

I myself did various courses pertaining to this, in special driving schools that specialize in their extreme circumstances because of past experiences.

nvbanker

A girl who works for me just leased an 05 Mountaineer that has the Rollover Stability Control feature on it, borrowed from the Volvo I think? I expect, given the grandmotherly way she drives it, she'll never notice it from her last 3 Mountaineers, or the Blazer she had before them, but I guess that's the point, really. It should handle much like a car should she ever need an accidence avoidance maneuver in a freeway situation, right, ANT?

ANT14

Even if someone drives grandmotherly, they might be faced just ONE day in a sudden accident maneuver that this system will help them out in. And with more and more SUV's driving, as if they were trucks, many driver's forget they are in one and their reactions might not reflect it.

nvbanker

I was glad to see the sticker on the window that displayed the feature on the truck. Wish my wife's 04 Premier had it. Must be new for 05. We found this one in the back all dirty - hadn't been through prep yet, still lots of 04's left to sell, but with my pull at the dealer, I had them pull it out of line and sell it to her. And surprise, they were happy to do it! But I digress. Is this the same system the Volvo uses on the XC-90, ANT? Will the 05 Navigator have it too?

ANT14

Yes, same system, Yes Navi too. Which reminds me, when are you replacing your Navi ?

texasmom

Thank you SO much for your adivce. I drive a little bit aggressively, or a lot, if you ask my husband and kids. I am going to head toward grandmother-style, I guess, because I'm scared of flipping over.
I will practice those parking lot things when I get my vehicle. It is to be an '05 Nav if I can get everything like I want it before end of '04. If not, it might still be a Navigator. Does the Cashmere or the Black have a better resale value, all other things being equal? Anybody know?
P.S. I still don't know if I could remember all that driving stuff in the heat of a near deer collision. I think I'd just be thinking like I was ice-skating or something, and just do instinct. Which is not to do anything too suddently at high speeds. But, I AM GOING TO PRACTICE the proper behaviors in case. And be more patient...

ANT14

Only time (on some brands) when a color might get you a bit more money come trade in, is when they offer metallic colors, that originally you paid for upon receipt. BMW does this quite a bit. Other than that, your free to pick any color, it won't make a difference.

I personally always opted for black because of I get a scratch on the bumper, the underlying color IS black, so it's not noticeable. Take a look at how many vehicles with painted bumper's in white, have gashes on them, from paint rubbing off on minor dings/scratches left on them. Therefore, it doesn't seem as obvious.

kgregg

Hi-
I am new here. I am in market for 2000-01 Navi 4x4, moonroof, etc. priced in low $20Ks. I am in MD. Local dealer has 7+ Navis priced from $23K-$27K (bit more than I want to spend). Have any of you bought 3+ yr old Navi recently? What deal did you get if I can ask? Thanks, Kevin

tidester

You might want to check out the Lincoln Navigator: Prices Paid & Buying Experience discussion.

tidester, host

texasmom

I'm going to ask about this issue that you bring up. It's a big one for me. I have a white minivan with a few of those ugly black/gray underlying color things you're talking about. I don't know if Navigator's are as prone to get bumper gashes as are minivans, I always thought my minivan got them because it has so little clearance. But, maybe it's be a problem with the Navigator, too. I mean, history repeats itself. I can say I'm not going to get them ever again, but it happened with both my white minivans. I wonder if it happens with Navigators and other "higher clearance" vehicles. I feel sort of hopeless posting this question on this semi-dead board, though. It's tempting to post it on the '05 Odyssey board. But, I'll be good and keep it here and hope I get some kind of answer before it's too late to be of any use. I might have found the answer to my color dilemma.

ANT14

Well a bumper scratch can happen to pretty much anyone. (I'm lucky for some odd reason). Haven't you seen some vehicles that have some dents, that have left you wondering "What could they have possibly hit to get that dent so high up next to the window. Some I've been able to tell were mailboxes they backed into.

Currently I'm awaiting testing results of how the new Chrysler 300 will fare the "Bumper to pole" test conducted by IIHS. That will surely be a costly repair.

texasmom

I called the body shop at a Lincoln dealership to ask for their opinion about colors to buy. They warned me away from black and also away from the "tricoat" special colors. I said I understood about the tricoat being expensive to touch up/match and asked explicitly about the bumper issue. I was told that even on a black vehicle with black plastic under the bumpers that the damage would still show. I guess he's right, but your point isn't that it's invisible, just that it is way less noticeable, right? What about the little scratches and dings that show up more in the rest of the body of a black vehicle? Do you touch it up or what? Thanks!

ANT14

Yes, my point being it's less visible than having a white bumper and the paint being scratched off to reveal the black under-layment.

I would also advice not to do tri-coat colors. Usually requires more work in the future incase you need to repaint it. But then again, if you have the funds to buy a Navi in the first place, then it won't be a concern for most buyers.

In all the years of owning cars, I've just received 2 dings that were quite obvious. One was on a Mark8, because the swoopy side below the belt-line stick out quite a bit. Another was on a Tbird where the car infront kicked up a metal rod and hit the upper windshield strip where it meets the steel of the roof. I actually saw it coming, ducked, heard the "clonk" and I thought "that's it, all windshield probably cracked in millions of pieces. Luckily the only scar was that dent which wasn't really obvious because of it's location.

Other than that, I can't say I've worried much about dents/dings. And not that I'm careful of parking (I've been prone to sandwich a car in because they don't know how to park well).

Ford does blues quite well. Charcoal greys do well in masking both white dust, and black dirt.

Ironically Ford still makes "Oxford White", which is one of the most well regarded and longest lasting white's in the market. They have used it for decades and still shows up year after year.

nvbanker

My lease is up Feb 06, ANT - Of course, I've never been adverse to an "early out" letter from my friends at Ford Credit. Usually, I call my dealer the day I get one...... I have become really fond of this 03 though, and am in no particulary hurry to dump it despite some pretty nice new colors that have come out since.

ANT14

Ok, was just wondering if you would fall on the availability of the next generation of the Navi. But still some years off...

nvbanker

Good to hear there will be a next generation of the Navi planned. Can you give me any clues?

ANT14

Co-developed with the next generation of Ford trucks, platform named T1. It'll be "what a luxury vehicle, should be" heh and with even more power. But, all the finer details are still being worked out, it's still a bit away to state anything else.

nvbanker

Thanks Ant.

aggiedog

You think a diesel engine will be in the Nav's future?

ANT14

Currently there are Expeditions being tested with a Diesel. If the market accepts it for that vehicle, then it might have a future for it in the Navi.

BUT, the thinking is "if you can afford a Navi, then you shouldn't be worried THAT much about fuel consumption". And then another point is, "well, maybe luxury vehicle buyer's might be able to pay the diesel engine premium". Therefore that still needs to be hammered out, but you will see it in the next few years actually. If not diesel, you might find an alternate engine provided fuel prices do not continue to escalate as they have been.

Since it's Xmas, I've been humming the "twelve days of Xmas" song but I keep missing something....How many Lords are Leaping ?

mongo1

Greetings ANT14, may this find you well. I believe the answer you seek is TEN lords a leaping. Why they are leaping is a mystery, I can only surmise they are leaping after the eight maids a milking. ;^) BTW, your advice above regarding accident avoidance training is spot on. Some of the best advice I've read here. I might only add that money spent now on a Bondurant style driving safety course, is very cheap in comparison to hospital rehab time, or worse. You only put a 10 dollar helmet on if your head is only worth 10 dollars. Merry Christmas.

aggiedog

Here's the rest.

The Twelve Days of Christmas

On the first day of Christmas,
my true love sent to me
A partridge in a pear tree.

On the second day of Christmas,
my true love sent to me
Two turtle doves,
And a partridge in a pear tree.

On the third day of Christmas,
my true love sent to me
Three French hens,
Two turtle doves,
And a partridge in a pear tree.

On the fourth day of Christmas,
my true love sent to me
Four calling birds,
Three French hens,
Two turtle doves,
And a partridge in a pear tree.

On the fifth day of Christmas,
my true love sent to me
Five golden rings,
Four calling birds,
Three French hens,
Two turtle doves,
And a partridge in a pear tree.

On the sixth day of Christmas,
my true love sent to me
Six geese a-laying,
Five golden rings,
Four calling birds,
Three French hens,
Two turtle doves,
And a partridge in a pear tree.

On the seventh day of Christmas,
my true love sent to me
Seven swans a-swimming,
Six geese a-laying,
Five golden rings,
Four calling birds,
Three French hens,
Two turtle doves,
And a partridge in a pear tree.

On the eighth day of Christmas,
my true love sent to me
Eight maids a-milking,
Seven swans a-swimming,
Six geese a-laying,
Five golden rings,
Four calling birds,
Three French hens,
Two turtle doves,
And a partridge in a pear tree.

On the ninth day of Christmas,
my true love sent to me
Nine ladies dancing,
Eight maids a-milking,
Seven swans a-swimming,
Six geese a-laying,
Five golden rings,
Four calling birds,
Three French hens,
Two turtle doves,
And a partridge in a pear tree.

On the tenth day of Christmas,
my true love sent to me
Ten lords a-leaping,
Nine ladies dancing,
Eight maids a-milking,
Seven swans a-swimming,
Six geese a-laying,
Five golden rings,
Four calling birds,
Three French hens,
Two turtle doves,
And a partridge in a pear tree.

On the eleventh day of Christmas,
my true love sent to me
Eleven pipers piping,
Ten lords a-leaping,
Nine ladies dancing,
Eight maids a-milking,
Seven swans a-swimming,
Six geese a-laying,
Five golden rings,
Four calling birds,
Three French hens,
Two turtle doves,
And a partridge in a pear tree.

On the twelfth day of Christmas,
my true love sent to me
Twelve drummers drumming,
Eleven pipers piping,
Ten lords a-leaping,
Nine ladies dancing,
Eight maids a-milking,
Seven swans a-swimming,
Six geese a-laying,
Five golden rings,
Four calling birds,
Three French hens,
Two turtle doves,
And a partridge in a pear tree!

explorerx4

considering the driving skills of most, and if you are driving a large vehicle, the best alternative may be to just jam on the brakes and hope for the best. you have size, anti locks, air bags. trying to evade sideways minimizes those attributes. there is no completely right answer.

gteach26

After 5 years of owning a Lincoln Navigator (3 years with a 2000, 2 years with an '03), I've decided to take a break from Lincoln... for now.

I have switched back to a car and have leased a 2005 Lexus LS430.

I will miss the room of the navi -- that's for sure. I could fit half of my extended family in that bus for trips. The newer generation navigators present a wonderful value and give great bang for the buck. Feature-wise I don't think any other manufacturer comes close to matching all of the toys in that beast. Yep, I'm going to miss her!

I also had my issues with the navigator through the years -- mostly minor annoying ones but enough to nag about (search my posts in this forum and you'll find 'em). The fit and finish of my 03 navigator had some problems but nothing major. The biggest issue I had that I could not resolve was a vibrating steering wheel at 70+ MPH. Now with the Lexus LS I can do 90 on the freeway and feel not so much as a twitch in the steering wheel.

After 7+ years of driving an SUV I feel so much "lighter" on the road now. There nothing like the "zip" of a car vs. the methodical lumbering of an extra-large suv.

I'll keep following the developments of the navigator... and I look forward to see the direction Lincoln automobiles head in.

A special thanks to the regulars in here who have contributed so much..(right now just a few come to mind..nvbanker, ANT, akirby, and many others!!).

I'll be lurking.......

nvbanker

You'll be missed!

I still have no vibration, that has to piss you off! Actually, I'm really very fond of my Gator at this point - it's serving me very well at 24,000 miles. I'm undecided at this point as to whether I'll replace with another SUV or go back to a Sedan. So far, I've not found an SUV I like better than the Gator, so it's likely I would renew with another one but in Red, Gold, or one of the Tri-Coat Whites or Ivory colors next time - but as I posted in the Lexus forum for you, I was very impressed with your deal. Thanks for those details, and I'll see you round the board, old friend! da Banker.

heyjewel

Hello all. This is my 1 year update on my Navigator Ultimate 2004. In a word "Outstanding". We've only put a bit over 8000 miles on it, but have had almost no problems. The Nav system got flaky a couple of times, but each time removing and replacing the DVD fixed it. There is a bit of a rattle developing around the driver's door B piller or locking mechanism. I hate rattles. Will turn dealer loose on it soon. Lstly, my only advice to Ford at this point would be to use some better materials - especially in areas (like the center of the steering wheel) that peopls see and touch the most.

Going to take it to Lake Tahoe for a week at Christmas maybe will need to turn the 4WD on! We do use AWD in the rain.

 

Wonderful vehicle to drive. Very roomy and comfortable. Only 16 mpg hiway, but can't have everything. That's in Cal BTW where the gas is truly lousy.

 

Now, I must post a message in the Aviator forum that won't be pretty. But the truth shall set u free!

nvbanker

What's wrong with your steering wheel hey? The wheel is so beautiful-it's one of those things I just had to have, and mine is fine.

ANT14

NVBanker,

 

Take a look at the Fusion forum, tell me what you think of it...

heyjewel

nv;

 

The wheel is beautiful to look at. But the hard plastic that the inside air bag cover is made of bothers me. It feels cheap. My LS is same way. Aviator just like Nav.

heyjewel

Ant;

 

Take a look at the Aviator problems forum and tell me what you think.

ANT14

On the A/C issue, or the rear end whine?

nvbanker

Facinating information going on over there ANT, and absolutely LOVE the spy shot of the Fusion! That's one great looking car!! I'll keep lurking over there now. Thanks.

heyjewel

ANT;

 

The HVAC stuff. You'll remember I have an unresolved problem in my LS. Then I drove an Aviator loaner for 2 days and the HVAC was so bad in it, I'm real happy to have my LS back.

Ford has a problem, ANT that they need to fix.

ANT14

I'm looking into the matter, I wasn't aware or informed of it till now.

nvbanker

You'll note, ANT, my comments indicate, and I believe, that due to where you and I reside, we are unaffected, but I suspect there may be an issue indeed. I've seen it around these boards a lot in the snow belt - only in the winters.

ANT14

I see myself pulling another '03 Mazda6 Rust Issue senario...

 

Gotta look up a few other boards using the same A/C system.

nvbanker

I've only seen this problem manifested on the LS & Aviator boards, ANT, strangely.......nowhere else.

ANT14

Well complaint boards which I hardly look at unless someone wants me to look into it. How about Navigator, or S-type ?

heyjewel

I have an '04 Navigator and the HVAC seems to be pretty good.

I do know of a couple of folks who are suing Ford over this issue. Wish we could get a class action suit going. When I, out of total frustration, mentioned the word 'lawyer' to my Lincoln Customer NoAssistance representative I was told - "GO ahead. We hear that all the time"

 

I think that was the truest thing she said to me.

ANT14

Yeah, I've mentioned Lawyer's too when the lady at the supermarket hit me with her cart. I think it has lost it's charmed...

 

But in regards to stating it at the dealership, your closing your door for them to do/find any possible fix/solution. That's usually something you state to someone on customer service when all the options have been exhausted, but never at the dealership since it's opening other issues, that won't allow them to help.

 

Not sure which forum it was, but I wrote an extensive post on how to speak to dealership (and customer service) to resolve your issue in a P.C. manner.

 

I'm already collected some info, and I'm trying to "track" a pattern. I believe by late next week I'll piece it together, and 2-3 weeks have some sort of conclusion from it.

 

And if there's ANY other forums outside of Edmunds, where people are having the similar issue, let me know :-)

heyjewel

Geez, man, read my post. I didn't say it to the dealership, I said it to Lincoln Customer NoAssistance.

 

And now that I think of it, you saying you've never heard of this problem before seems a little disingenuous. I've made MANY posts about it in the LS forum and there have been several people posting about it in the Aviator forum. A couple fairly recently (posts 214 and 216 on the Aviator problems board). In fact, if I searched I'm pretty sure I can find a couple of times when you responded to my posts about it.

 

Oh well. No matter. If you do find any help with Ford, I hope you'll post it here.

I'm sure your post on how to talk to them is helpful. I think I remember reading it. But what should REALLY happen is that someone should write a letter to Ford telling THEM how to treat customers who give them tens of thousands of their hard earned dollars for their vehicles. Only to be treated like dung when something more serious than a coolant leak pops up. Look at the poor woman who just posted about her brand new Navigator which stranded her and her daughter 70 miles from home and Lincoln won't even cover the whole tow charge. What a lousy way to treat a woman who's probably just given them $50000 or more. (Post 37 on the Nav problems board)

nvbanker

I've not noticed this problem in the Navigator board at all - on this car, it seems to work alright, and the only problem I've ever had with mine is that is freezes up on long trips in very hot weather, and I have to turn it off for 5 minutes and let the evaporator thaw, then it's fine again. Whole different issue.

ANT14

Jewel,

 

Yes I remember that, specifically from you. But I wasn't aware that it was as frequent. At first I thought it was just a one in 100,000 situation, but as you pointed out, it's much more frequent which I'm trying to piece together.

 

But yes, do write a letter stating the issue, mentioning names at the dealership, etc. You would be surprised how many do get answered.