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The New Scion 2008 xD

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  • ohplezzohplezz Posts: 74
    Sorry about posting in the xB forum. I have a kawasaki ninja :shades:
    But I'm thinking about getting the xD when it comes out.
  • aathertonaatherton Posts: 617
    "... but your metro can go faster on a highway going downhill with two people..."
    The acceleration due to gravity is independent of weight. A 5 pound weight and a 10 pound weight would fall at the same speed in a vacuum. So would a feather and a cannonball. And so would a bullet whether it is shot horizontally or dropped. We experience heavier things falling faster than light things only because of air resistance affects light things more.
    In the case of a Metro whose air resistance does not change, increasing the number of people inside the car's envelope does not increase the downhill speed. But putting the any people on the roof would decrease the downhill speed.
  • 719b719b Posts: 216
    everything you said is accurate, but that metro better have a good set of brakes if it's going down hill with a full load.
  • ohplezzohplezz Posts: 74
    http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2007/06/scion_xd_first_.html

    First Drive: 2008 Scion xD


    I got a little worried when I learned the new Scion xD shares its platform with the subcompact Toyota Yaris, a car purely about point-to-point transportation that's not the least bit entertaining to drive. After a brief drive in Scion's four-door hatchback, which goes on sale in August, I can safely say the new xD has a much more engaging personality than the Yaris, and it should definitely be on your list if you're shopping for a small car.



    One of the Yaris' biggest problem areas is its weak, 106-hp four-cylinder engine. The xD uses a larger 1.8-liter four-cylinder that makes 128 hp, giving the car sufficient power to accelerate briskly in suburban driving. A five-speed manual and four-speed automatic transmission are offered, with the manual returning EPA-estimated gas mileage of 27/33 mpg and the automatic delivering 26/32 mpg (using the more severe EPA testing procedures that go into effect beginning with 2008 models).

    The xD's suspension has a knack for damping bumps in the road while still providing a sporty driving experience. It steers with a light, sporty touch, but the steering wheel could really use a telescope adjustment to better accommodate different-sized drivers. The fabric seats were comfortable during my short drive, and over-shoulder views aren't compromised by the car's large D-pillars.

    The standard 60/40-split rear seat slides back and forth and also reclines, but both of the levers that control these movements are located on the top of each backrest. This makes for awkward adjustment when sitting in the seats; levers mounted near the hips would be easier to use.

    Overall, the xD is a nice package, with air conditioning, cruise control, side curtain airbags, a Pioneer CD stereo and remote keyless entry among its standard features. Pricing information has not yet been released, but it should start at significantly less than the $15,650 base price of the brand's new xB.

    I wish they were reviewing the 5 speed. Auto is boring and does not have the gearing/power for big city hways.
  • crabbymancrabbyman Posts: 9
    I can attest to that!

    Don't ask me why I did it but...I once had 5 people in that 3 cylinder Metro traveling about 35 miles. That car neither wanted to stop nor go forward too fast with all that weight in there!

    Never really thought of the amount (225+100+300+130+160)..wow approximately 915 pounds of people. I think the max weight occupancy with cargo in the Metro was 300 or 400 pounds. I don't remember.

    Although, I would take one of this gen's Suzuki Swift's in a heartbeat!
  • nwngnwng Posts: 664
    hmmmm... thanks for the physics lesson. Here's another one: would it take more or less fuel for the said metro to go downhill at the same speed with different number of people on board?

    And another one: air travels under the metro at a pretty good clip during this downhill highway run. More air travels under the car with one person than with 4 guys which lowers the vehicle's height.(if you stick 4 adults into any compact car, it will lower the ride height at least an inch). Will that decrease the air resistance(less air goes under the car thus less air resistance) and it allows the car to go faster at the same engine speed?

    curious mind inquires
  • aathertonaatherton Posts: 617
    "... would it take more or less fuel for the said metro to go downhill at the same speed with different number of people on board?"

    The number of people in the car does not change the air resistance and so does not affect fuel going downhill. Unless the engine is used to accelerate the car downhill, in which case more people will take more gas to accelerate.

    "... if you stick 4 adults... less air goes under the car thus less air resistance... allows the car to go faster at the same engine speed?"

    The height of the car off the ground does not affect air resistance unless the car becomes so low that it can push the air aside and have no airflow under the bottom. Adding people won't do it. This takes a very low suspension plus some ground effects panels.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,897
    Interesting physics discussion, but...
    anyone have thoughts that are directly relevant to the xD? :)

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  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    Their TDI jetta will get 50 mpg. But a VW will brake down at least once a month

    you sound so certain! 'at LEAST once a month'....

    mine has yet to do it! but again its a newer vee dub.

    when will the xd's be hitting dealers? anyone know?
  • ecotrklvrecotrklvr Posts: 519
    You're right - but only if you ignore rolling friction. An object's weight doesn't affect how fast it falls in a vacuum. And more to the point, with the same air resistance, weight won't change its downhill speed, either. But the force pulling the object down a ramp is directly proportional to its mass - more mass, more force. More force to counteract wind resistance AND the thing you're ignoring - the rolling friction.

    When I go biking with my 180 pound friend Matt, and we get to the top of a hill and coast down together, my extra mass shoots me downhill a LOT faster. He has a MUCH more expensive bike with better wheel bearings, so don't assume that it's a friction difference. And he's much more aerodynamic than me, as well.

    At the top of the hill, I've got lots more potential energy than he does - that's what's being converted to kinetic energy as we roll.
  • jbrahmsjbrahms Posts: 24
    According to http://toyoland.com/scion/scion-xD.html, the interior of the xD is significantly tighter in some dimensions. Head room is less about an inch in the rear. Front leg room is less by an inch. But what really caught my eye is that rear leg room is less by a whopping 3.7 inches. I have to wonder if that is a misprint.

    Another surprise is that hip room, both front and rear, is narrower by over 3 inches, even though the external width of the car is wider by 1.2 inches.
  • aathertonaatherton Posts: 617
    "... But the force pulling the object down a ramp is directly proportional to its mass - more mass, more force... my extra mass shoots me downhill a LOT faster."

    That force would be called "gravity", and its effect on your downhill speed is not related to your mass:
    "The common laws of gravity... state that freely falling objects accelerate and that the rate of acceleration is independent of their mass."
    http://www.school-for-champions.com/science/gravity.htm

    "... When I go biking with my 180 pound friend Matt, and we get to the top of a hill and coast down together, my extra mass shoots me downhill a LOT faster..."

    Your extra weight is not pulling you downhill any faster than your friend. Look elsewhere for the reason. See this skier study:
    "Question: Does a skier’s weight effect how fast they are skiing? In this experiment... If the average acceleration changed when more weight was added, then it would be determined that weight affects the speed of a skier.... when I had completed this experiment... weight does not change the acceleration of skier because acceleration due to gravity is constant. As I added more and more weight, the acceleration stayed the same... "
    http://www.suberic.net/~avon/mxphysics/anne/Annie Mears.htm

    "... At the top of the hill, I've got lots more potential energy than he does - that's what's being converted to kinetic energy as we roll."

    That is true. The study above explains that potential energy = mass x gravity x height. But potential energy is not related to the velocity of falling (or speed downhill).
  • ecotrklvrecotrklvr Posts: 519
    "That force would be called "gravity", and its effect on your downhill speed is not related to your mass"

    Since you know that the force is called gravity, you may also recall that it is a force, and not an acceleration. Yes, there is such a thing as "the acceleration due to gravity", but the property that pulls things down is a Force called Gravity. You must multiply the Acceleration times the Mass to get the Force: F=MA.

    Are you really trying to tell us that weight doesn't increase with mass? F=MA tell us otherwise. Everyone knows that things on this planet are heavier if they have more mass. You do too - you're just getting tangled up in techno-talk.

    You keep trying to make this into a "freely-falling" physics experiment. It isn't. The difference between that assumption, and what is actually happening with a car riding downhill on a real road, is friction. That little thing makes all the difference.
  • 719b719b Posts: 216
    what originally was an interesting posting turned into a tiresome thread.
  • ohplezzohplezz Posts: 74
    "mine has yet to do it! but again its a newer vee dub."

    I knew their would be at least one in the group with this to say. Don't worry it will be braking down soon. VW's are very poorly made. Some of them are good looking but they are very poorly made. They make chevy and ford look fantastic. in terms of reliability. Who knows, maybe you got one of the few good ones. For your sake I hope so.

    "when will the xd's be hitting dealers? anyone know?"

    August.
  • aathertonaatherton Posts: 617
    "Everyone knows that things on this planet are heavier if they have more mass. Are you really trying to tell us that weight doesn't increase with mass?"

    What originally was an interesting posting turned into a tiresome thread.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,897
    Not to mention one that I specifically requested STOP. Further posts will be removed. Members stopping by to talk about the xD aren't likely to appreciate having to wade through these posts.

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  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    Don't worry it will be braking down soon. VW's are very poorly made.

    uh, ok. You've got your opinions. The mkV is known as one of the most reliable vw's ever made, and has had a pretty damn good history. Just becasue in the past they have not been amazing, means nothing to the current gen.

    how soon is soon by the way? 20k enough for ya? but you have your opinions, and you are entitled to them, however erroneous they may be.

    Back to the xd.
  • ohplezzohplezz Posts: 74
    Its not just my opinion about VW's. It is very single internet, magazine and consumer reports, consumer digest report that has anything to do with vehicle reliability. Hint buddy. When looking at car reports and you see a black dot next to the car for reliability. That means its garbage. And in the case of VW's, over priced garbage. VW= :lemon:
  • 719b719b Posts: 216
    one man's garbage is another man's treasure.
    disparaging remarks about a man's car is like trying to emasculate him. if he said it never gave him any trouble, why can't you take his word for it and move on. this reminds me of how kids behave at the play ground.
    xd news, anyone?
  • ohplezzohplezz Posts: 74
    I hope this guys VW last forever and never gives him a bit of trouble. But the fact remains that the data does not support this. I would love to post some news about the xD but their has been none to note for 3 days. Hopefully tomorrow will change that.
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    What sort of MPG will the XD get...mid 30s average?
  • crabbymancrabbyman Posts: 9
    Man...if the space of the xD is that much smaller...it will be a flop!

    Americans are overweight (*waves*) and want at least some comfort. Every little bit of hip room counts in these instances. I have a tC and love the hip room. When I drive my wife's Focus...I feel like a sardine. I'm all smooshed and almost feel claustrophobic.

    So I hope for the future of small, economical hatchbacks that this item is not as bad as it seems..or wrong. Econoboxes already have enough on their plate to try to pursuade American buyers to like them.
  • 1stpik1stpik Posts: 495
    The Geo Metro represents one of the reasons GM is nearly bankrupt today.

    Volkswagens are built in Mexico.

    The new Scion XD looks exactly like the new XB.
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    Volkswagens are built in Mexico.



    not all of them. Both the gti and rabbit are built in wolfsburg.

    The new Scion XD looks exactly like the new XB

    you think so? they look nothing alike?
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    actually, there are several of those that even attest to NEWER vw's increased reliability. you are still basing your opinions on older models, which as a matter of fact, i know quite a few people who have trouble free old and new (though not as new as mine) vw's.

    Consumer reports is broken. Its the one thing everyone quotes when they bag on vw's reliabiltiy. one thing people (including you) fail to realize is the consumer reports ratings are based on owners who subscribe to the magazine. isn't it funny how in the past, vw was rated horribly, but the magazine's own subscribers have not learned their lesson and just keep buying vw's? don't you think they would have learned eventually? or could it just be that everyone who has a bad vw just automatically subscribes to consumer reports? Something to think about.

    actually, if you want to get technical, cr does not have enough data to rate the rabbit, same goes for the gti, but they do call it one of the better spory small cars. And guess what? the passat carries the checkmark bestowed upon reccomended cars.

    Every car manufacturer can have a lemon. Funny enough, while i never had any real problems with my 06 civic, it technically has given me more grief than my rabbit has.

    ohplezz? yes totally.

    with regards to reliability , i hope the xd does well, and if it doesn't, we'll most likely never hear about it, except for on this website.
  • 719b719b Posts: 216
    the toyota corolla and the scion xd appear to have the same drive train. the corolla is two feet longer and i assume it is much heavier. if this is the case, i believe the scion will have better mpg numbers than the toyota.
    this is only speculation, but it makes sense to me.
    with the new 2008 mpg guide lines, the toyota should be high 20's in city and high 30's highway. with a lighter body the scion should be at least 30 city and 40 highway.
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    actually the figures are already out, and they are not anywhere near 30/40. The xd also does not have a very aerodynamic shape, which hurts mileage as well.

    they don't have the same drive train either. Its a new 1.8 engine never used in north america, and its based off the yaris' platform.
  • 719b719b Posts: 216
    thanks for the info. what is the mileage on the xd and how will it compare with the other 2008 sub compacts?
    better yet, can you direct me to the site that you got your information from?
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    its actually in this very thread...just look a couple pages back.

    off the top of my head i belive its around 25-26 city and about 33 highway.

    This is close to the honda fits 28/34 rating and on par with maybe the nissan versa, which is on the bulky side like the xd.
This discussion has been closed.