Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

c_hunter

Most of what you describe is perfectly normal for an auto climate control system. They use A/C more often (even in cold weather) to dehumidify and condition the air.

Almost all cars kick A/C on automatically when you use defrost (again, to dehumidify). Note that A/C does not have to mean "cold" (the system will mix engine heat in to warm the air).

After watching my wife fight with the auto climate systems in our Forester and Outback (I have no problems with either car) my advice is to either: 1) go to manual override and do things the way you want or 2) put it on auto and only touch the temperature adjustment -- that's the only knob you should be using to adjust the comfort of the system.

About the only time of the year I override the system is spring and fall, when I can just vent in outside air to be comfortable. Rest of the time I leave it on auto.

Craig

gmginsfo

LOL, Ken! I like Craftsman-style furniture, which tends to run large, like me. When I bought my new wood recliner - it dwarfs my old Lazyboy - the store owner was amazed it fit in the back of my '03 Forester XS. We partially reclined it and slid it in, slid it out when I got home - and I was sitting in it and sipping on a martini in no time.

My only gripes with the car: power IS sluggish at times, but am too frugal to keep my foot in it and don't need the turbo; a six would be better, IMHO. Mileage isn't great, which may tip the balance in a year or two from now when Ford gets the bugs worked out of its Escape hybrid and I'm looking to trade. That weirdly-gated shifter makes a third-gear trespasser out of me too often, and I still wish I could adjust the driver's seat higher and further back. But in all, a good car and one I remain pleased with, especially when nice discoveries like the one that led off this post are made!

lfdal

Don't know if you've looked back in the postings, but if you do a search on HAL (remember the deranged computer in Kubrick's 2001?) you'll see numerous references to the Auto Climate Control, very few of them favorable.

One of the more enterprising members of the board has come up with a fix / enhancement. I hope to install said fix this weekend. His rationale, and his results both seem reasonable so I think its going to make a difference. A big difference I hope.

The theory behind it, is that the air tube that senses's cabin temperature (it's behind the ignition lock on the dash - the little grille there) doesn't sense temperature quick enough. The solution appears to be to force feed air into the tube and therefore on to the sensor to improve the system's response time.

HTH

Larry

cooter

Man, I'm 5'9" with a 29.5" inseam. Seems like lots of Forester owners have long torsos.

ateixeira

Mike: don't get a v1.0 Escape hybrid, wait until Ford sorts their hybrid system out. A lot of it is new, even though they are licensing some technology from Toyota.

Remember, the Focus and Escape launches were very problem laden.

-juice

ballistic

Man, I'm 5'9" with a 29.5" inseam. Seems like lots of Forester owners have long torsos.

Or long necks?

jeg

Hi. I’m looking to buy a used wagon, mini SUV, or sedan to replace my increasingly unreliable 1994 4.0 V6 Ranger. My priorities are reliability and power. I have narrowed my choices to the below list, and have some questions that I’m hoping some of you might comment on. (From reading these discussions, I know there are some big Forester XT fans out there, and as great as they sound, they surpass my $15,000 spending limit!)

My choices thus far, in no particular order:

2001 Forester (2.5 H4, 165 hp)
2001 or 2002 Mazda Tribute DX (3.0 V6, 200 hp)
2002 Saturn VUE (3.0 V6, 181 hp)
2003 Pontiac Vibe GT (1.8 I4, 180 hp)
2001 or 2002 Nissan Maxima (3.0 V6, 222 hp)
2002 or 2003 Saturn L300 (3.0 V6, 182 hp)

OK, based on what I’ve read here, it seems that the Forester and the Vibe are very popular. However, I am concerned about the power of the 4-cylinder engines. The horsepower, at least in the Vibe, is comparable to that of the V6s in this list, does that mean they are equally as powerful? What is hp all about anyway? With the exception of the occasional camping trip, I don’t do a lot of hauling, but I want something fun, with snappy pick up and the capacity to power up the I5 grapevine with confidence. It seems the VUE would be a good alternative, but the mixed reviews make me hesitate, and I would be turned off by an interior “splashed with plastic.” Plus, used VUEs are very expensive in Southern California, much higher than is suggested by Edmunds true market value for my zip so I’m not even sure I could really afford one.

The power issue is my main question here but I would also appreciate any comments or rankings on the other choices in my list.

Thanks,
JEG

c_hunter

One thing I can tell you is that tne 180HP engine in the Vibe (a Toyota 16V four) is pretty anemic for normal driving, despite the high HP. I believe this is the same motor in the Celica. You really have to wind it to high RPM to get any power. Otherwise, it's a real dog. I think HP numbers can be misleading. You really ought to consider at what RPM the HP peaks, what the torque is, etc...

Craig

10years

I recently returned from a trip to LA and of course did the grapevine thing in my 03 AT Forester X. The 2.5 liter engine, the long standing Subaru standard, did just fine. As you are well aware road conditions on the grapevine can be treacherous from time to time and Subaru’s standard AWD systems would give you a definite edge then.

Edmunds considers the Escape/Tribute a good pick for power and safety with the V6. Skip the 2001 models as some of those version 1 models had teething problems. Before buying the Forester I seriously considered E/T. The main reason I went with the Forester was the 3-4 increases in MPG over the V6 4WD E/T. I don’t know your zip code but I plugged Chatsworth 91311 zip code on CARS.COM and got 50+ hits for max price of $18K, you know wiggle room. There was one 04 V6 2WD Escape for $14.9K. I know a couple people with V6 4WD E/T and they are quite pleased.

With the rapid increase in gasoline prices you may want to put MPG high up in your purchasing priorities. Have Fun.

suydam

For what it's worth, I have both a '99 Forester and and '01 Maxima. It depends on what you want. I love the Forester for cargo hauling and all-weather capability. But on the grapevine I'd prefer the Max, no question. We also get better gas mileage than the Forester overall, especially on highways. The above post is correct though, the Forester will do just fine, so it's a question of which you prefer. I'd take them both out for a spin and see which you like. I haven't driven the Tribute but it looks nice and does have a V6, so that might give you a comparison with the Forester for a similar vehicle.

p0926

In terms of reliability, CR recommends that you avoid the 01 Tribute, the 02 Vue and the 02 Saturn L series (V6). The 03 Vibe, 01 Maxima and the 01 Forester are all recommended while both the Maxima and Forester are listed as "good bets" for scoring equally well in reliability and overall evaluation testing. However, the Maxima and Forester are very dissimilar beasts which rarely get cross-shopped. The Maxima being an upscale sports sedan while the Forester is much more the all-purpose utility vehicle. As far as mini-SUV/tall wagons go, the Forester is one of the sportiest but it's no sports sedan.

IRT the HP issue, horse power is the most widely used measurement of how powerful an engine is but as Craig pointed out, taken by itself the HP rating can be misleading. You'll get a far more accurate picture if you compare both HP and torque as well as where the peak output is for both (the lower the rpm the better generally speaking). Many engines have similar HP and torque ratings but if you run across one that has noticeably more HP it usually means that you really have to rev the engine to get much performance. For good acceleration, you want an engine that will produce a lot of torque at relatively low rpms. Hope this helps.

-Frank P

calessan

Hi there,
I have a 2001 Forester S and am wondering if there's any info available anywhere on the stereo (in dash 6-CD changer/cassette/radio) that came installed. I'm hoping to connect my iPod to it using one of the mods I read about on ScoobyMods... but that was for an XT. Before I go pulling the console apart and taking out my stereo, I'd hoping to find out if my stereo can even use a 13-pin mini din plug. Does anyone have a 2001 and know the answer? Better yet, have any of you tried this? The iTrip doesn't work too well where I live, and I'd like to avoid the unsightly wire of a cassette adapter. Thanks!

Cristina

ateixeira

Vibe is a good compact wagon but it compares more closely with the Subaru Outback Sport. Forester has a lot more cargo room. Put a stroller in the back and the Vibe is full, Forester isn't.

My other concern would be torque. Put 900 lbs of weight in both and the Forester's 166 lb-ft will much better be able to handle to load, vs. the 130 lb-ft of the Vibe GT or the 125 lb-ft of the base Vibe.

But go back to the basics, are you looking for a fuel mising FWD small wagon, or the all-around hauling/foul weather utility of an AWD Sport/Cute? Or even a sporty FWD sedan?

Sedans give up a lot of practicality. I've hauled a full-size clothes washer still in the box. See above, someone recently hauled a full-size dish washer IIRC.

I don't think the Vibe or Maxima could do that. Fork out $50 for delivery.

-juice

c_hunter

Here's one solution:



I used this setup for a few months and it sounded pretty good. The cassette adapter wire is tucked into the dash and barely noticeable.



My WRX had the DIN connector on the back, but I was unable to get it to work. Other people have reported mixed results. I ended up getting an Alpine head unit a few months later, which has a line-in which I use for my iPod.



Craig

calessan

Thanks, Craig - both solutions look awesome. How'd you do the dock in the second picture? I'm wondering if I could pop off the cover of the compartment I have on the top of my dash and plant it there. On the other hand, it's probably not a good idea for me to go breaking things in my car...

Cristina

ateixeira

I've removed the console on my '98, it's not that hard. My concern would be how to finish the area afterwards.

Someone like Pat would cut into the cover itself and use a heat gun to shape it nicely, I bet.

-juice

c_hunter

I ended up going back to the mount shown in the first picture. The dock was slick looking, but too far of a reach. But basically, I just stuck the dock to the dash with a dab of silicone and ran the wiring down to the radio through a small hole.

Having tried several things, I'd say have enough cable so that you can hold the iPod in your hand for adjustment. I try to not fiddle with it during driving, but find that I can make quick adjustments as needed.

Craig

calessan

I can't tell what kind of cable you have - is that the Belkin audio/power combo that tucks behind the ashtray? I don't see the cassette adapter cable sticking out the top of your iPod (is it there?)

Hmmm... cutting a hole into the compartment cover might work for the dock, maybe just the width of the iPod... That compartment's been empty for the 3 years that I've had this car. I ordered the Belkin TuneDok that supposedly fits into the cupholder but I'm prepared for the fact that it probably won't. I'll definitely want the iPod controls within reach. Though I suppose I could use the wired remote.

Cristina

rsay777

Has any one tried the one of the FM transmitter's to get those mp3 tunes sent to the in dash unit? any degradation? I think that might solve all the how do I mount this questions. Bob L

calessan

Yes, I have one and it stinks. It crackles contantly. A cassette adapter is a much better choice, and connecting directly to your stereo is better still. I'm looking into my options. I know there are people out there doing custom mods but I hadn't found any for the 2001, so I thought this forum would be a good place to check.

Cristina

c_hunter

Yep, I have the Belkin "Auto-kit" which plugs into the cigarette lighter and powers the iPod through the dock connector. It also carries audio out from the iPod, through the dock connector, to a 1/8" headphone jack (that can connect to a cassette adapter, FM modulator, etc).

In my WRX, I ended up wiring a second cigarette lighter in the glove box and located the Belkin auto-kit there. When the iPod is not in use, I can just tuck the white cable into the glove box.

In my Outback, I actually took the Belkin auto-kit apart and hardwired it. The guts of the auto-kit are in a small plastic box tucked up in the center console near the shifter. So you can definitely get creative how you mount and wire these things!

My wife has an old-style iPod without the dock connector. She uses a cassette adapter in her 03 Forester, and is pretty happy (so I haven't inflicted any custom install jobs on her).

I agree, the FM modulators suck. I first used them in the late 80s, to connect Sony Discman CD players to car stereos, and they were horrible then too. Generally, the direct-wired ones have a clear signal, but you lose the highs and lows and the resulting sound is kind of flat.

Craig

jeg

Hi, Thanks very much to those who commented earlier on my list of car options. I have ruled out the Vibe and spent the weekend test driving Foresters, Maximas, and Tributes, coming to the same conclusion as you that I just need to figure out which type of car I want. Given that I'm at a crossroads, it's not surprising that my top two choices - Forester and Maxima - differ so greatly.

I love the Forester for its versatility and cuteness. It is also more "me" - sporty, youthful, and practical.

The Maxima is exceptionally nice to drive, making it easy to imagine taking long road trips up and down the state (CA). And, for 80% of all driving that I do, I think I'll get more for my money with the Maxima than I would with the Forester. The Max, however, is really my father's Oldsmobile.

The more "me" Forester, unfortunately, is plagued by a lack of availability and high price tag in my area. Some perspective: there are exactly 0 with less than 30,000 within 40 miles of my zip. There are 12 within 100 miles, but the lowest asking price is $17,000 and the average is $18,500. There are 173 Maximas and they start at $13,900. I'm really aiming for $15,000.

It sounds like I'm really leaning towards the Maxima, doesn't it? I can't get over being a young, single, outdoorsy chick and driving a SEDAN.

It seems the Tribute would be a great alternative: it's also "me," and is very available and very affordable. I hesitate because of the road noise, which is annoying, and because if I pay the $$ for a mini-SUV, I might as well spend extra and get something with better mpg, AWD, and better resale. Except that I don't want to assume that much debt...

So, this is where I'm at. Thank you again for your comments, I found them very useful.

Happy driving,
JEG

c_hunter

I can't get over being a young, single, outdoorsy chick and driving a SEDAN.

Let me just say that when I was a young, single, outdoorsy guy, I would have definitely gone ga-ga over a young, single, outdoorsy chick driving a Forester! Maxima is more of a yawner car...

Now that I am a 34 year old married outdoorsy guy, I am only allowed to go ga-ga over my wife in her Forester! Though, I do manage to go ga-ga over my WRX a few times a week...

Craig

jeg

I should pose the ga-ga question on a Maxima forum and see what THEY have to say!

Edmunds might consider developing a Personality and Lifestyle Assessment Tool (PLAT) to match personalities and lifestyles with potential cars.

secretariat73

Shortly after getting my '02 Forester, I replaced the factory speakers with 6.5 fronts and 5.25 back speakers. In order to make them fit, I took out the brackets. Well, the replacement speakers have never sounded right, so I ordered the upgraded Forester speakers from subaruparts.com. However, these didn't come with the brackets, either - and, since I've moved between speaker upgrades, I have no brackets, or any way of getting them (subaruparts.com could not get them, either). Does anyone have any insight as to who might have these brackets (or have some old ones sitting around)?

-Steven-

suydam

It just goes to show how perceptions are so different! For me, the Forester is the practical and kinda cute "Mom" car-- good for hauling groceries, the dog, and the occasional big box, as well as carry a college kids stuff back and forth. The Max, on the other hand, is my baby. Love passing in an instant on 2 lane roads!! You should go with what makes you happy. Things that annoy you now -- like road noise or 'my father's oldsmobile" will bug you more, not less as time goes on. But do check out the Bose stereo in the Max!

ballistic

Edmunds might consider developing a Personality and Lifestyle Assessment Tool (PLAT) to match personalities and lifestyles with potential cars.

YES! I am dying to learn more about the personalities of those who actually shelled out dough to buy Pontiac Azteks.

njswamplands

LMAO

c_hunter

You'll probably have to order them. You can go here:

http://classic.subarusdc.com/liberty/parts_home_page.cgi

And browse the parts catalog for your 02 to identify the part numbers of the brackets.

Craig

ateixeira

JEG: what you're finding out is that Foresters don't depreciate much. But turn that around and you'll see that a new one can be a good value, and your ownership cost might not be any higher.

fitzmall.com is a local no-haggle dealer, they've had a few 2004s come in at under $19k. You get a 5/60 powertrain warranty so if you take on a 5 year loan you shouldn't be stuck with payments + repair bills at the same time.

Let's say you take a 3 year loan on that used Maxima, it'll be out of warranty before you pay it off, so in that way it's actually riskier.

My usual rule of thumb - don't make your loan longer than the powertrain warranty period. That way you don't get stuck double-dipping into your finances on any given month.

-juice

ateixeira

$18,748 for an X, manual tranny
$19,309 for an X, auto tranny

That's new.

If used prices start at $17,500, well then, that's not very much depreciation is it?

-juice

elleng

I've posted before about finding a decent body shop. I got an estimate at Montrose Dodge in Gaithersburg to repair some damage to my rear bumper. They said to return it to new condition they would have to replace the rear bumper cover at a cost of 179.95 plus about 10.00 more dollars in "fees" Paint they are saying will run 86.00.
Labor they are billing me 2 hours for "sheet" metal repair at 64.00 total and then 4.3 hours of refinish work at a total of 137.60. Total repair costs would be 491.10
Would like to know opinions of this estimate. I did go to Kenwood autobody in Germantown and they were higher.

This is for a 2004 XS forester premium

p0926

Sounds about right to me.

-Frank P

gmginsfo

Juice, thanks for the advice, but have no fear: I'd NEVER buy ANY v1.0 vehicle, ESPECIALLY a Detroit brand. And I say this as a Ford stockholder, who sure wishes his company would get the bugs out of its products BEFORE they go to market and really put some INTELLIGENT design and engineering into their vehicles. It's just not that hard, people!

Anyone here have any experience with installing an antenna amplifier on an '03 Forester XS Auto? We've got a great classical station across the border in Tijuana (XLNC/90.7 FM) but it's power isn't too strong. I'm not into satellite radio because I like to get local flavor as I travel around, but would like to get a stronger dose of it. Any suggestions?

My Polk 5 1/2s and 4 inchers in the front and rear doors, respectively, are doing great with the tweeter kit I installed. I was really surprised to see how pitifully cheap the paper- coned stock door speakers were when I replaced them - and how much better the present setup sounds. Don't let anyone talk you into an amp; the stock receiver is just fine for all sorts of tunes, although installing an RCA plug kit when you do the upgrade will guarantee better sound all around.

ateixeira

Ellen: make sure they put a flex agent in the paint.

You could get a bumper from a wholesaler, I think they run about $125. That would save a bit, but it might not be worth the trouble.

-juice

purduealum91

or should one forget the X and jump to the XS. I wish I could have an XT, but maybe next time. Juice, have you sat in both an Element and Legacy Outback? How do you compare the two. To me, the utility of the Element is unreal.

ballistic

the utility of the Element is unreal.

No amount of utility is sufficient to outweigh its appallingly bad styling. One of the two or three ugliest vehicles of all time.

p0926

The X is an excellent value and still comes extremely well equipped. The main advantages that the XS offers is the cold weather package and rear LSD. Depending on where you live you might not need those. The X also has the unpainted bumpers and lower body cladding so it is much more resistant to dings and scratches.

-Frank P

nygreg

I kinda like the look. I am not alone as they are selling well.

Greg

ateixeira

So how do you really feel, JB?

If he's considering the Element, let's go ahead and disregard styling because he must like it, and styling is subjective anyway.

I like it too, FWIW. I do think there are drawbacks you need to take into account:

* just 675 lbs payload (very easy to exceed)
* seats only 4 people
* front seat belts anchored to rear doors
* part-time only AWD
* gas mileage only so-so

If you read the May 5 Autoweek, they did a long-term wrap up of the Element. It was one of their cars that accumulated the fewest miles, and they complained loudly about the inconvenience of having to remove your seat belt every time you open the rear doors.

With that in mind, if you only carry 2 people, and often have muddy bikes or plants in the back, or carry small trees or grandfather clocks that can stick out that rear roof, then it's the cat's pajamas.

The Outback is a lot more conventional. Permanent AWD is better, IMO. Payload is 900 lbs, usefully higher. The rood rack can hold 150 lbs IIRC, and it can tow more than the Element can, too. HP and torque are slightly higher, and overall I think it's a little more substantial feeling. Plus you get 3 years of roadside assistance (zero for Hodna) and 5/60 powertrain warranty (just 3/36 for Honda).

Trade offs? It's the outgoing model. That can be bad (it'll seem old) or good (it's proven and kinks have been worked out). Everybody has one.

The Crew will help take care of you if you get the Subie, I'm sure you know that.

-juice

p0926

the cat's pajamas.

Wow Juice, that's quite the command of the American lexicon. Next thing you know you'll be saying it's "the bee's knees" :-)

-Frank P

once_for_all

IMO, a functional car but I detested the retro style AMC Pacer gauges. I was also concerned about the electric assist power steering. The "feature" level in 2003 was very minimal, I think radio and AC were both optional, and both options were an arm and a leg to acquire. Otherwise, it was a car I cross shopped before ending up with the Forester.

John

paisan

Single biggest anti-Utility thing about the Element is that it's built on the civic chassis giving it only 675lbs of driver/passenger/cargo.

Put in 3 200lb guys and you can then get what a few cases of beer with you?

-mike

ateixeira

mike's right, a few cases isn't enough! Get something with more payload. ;-)

The DX model is stripped, but the EX isn't that way. 4WD models get the rear roof opening.

-juice

samiam_68

Honda has never been know for stylish cars. As a matter of fact, I cannot think of a single Honda model, except the S2000, now or in the past, that could be called attractive. "Plain", "generic", "slightly disproportionate", "stubby" - these are some of the adjectives that come to mind when describing any Honda.

Acura used to fair a little better, until they brought out the ridiculous looking RSX to replace the somewhat "cute" Integra. I think the sales are down 80% on that model. Bu then again, what to expect when a car is shaped like a door stop...

ateixeira

CRX was cute in a functional way. I liked the 3rd generation Prelude, too.

Element gets noticed, you can't argue that.

-juice

p0926

A giant cardboard box driving down the road would get noticed too but that's attention I can live without :-)

-Frank P

ballistic

Honda has never been know for stylish cars.

I wouldn't agree with that at all, even though I'm probably the Element's harshest critic. I think most Hondas have been at least inoffensive and in quite a few cases quite good looking. The earlier Civic SI squareback 2-door was great looking and highly functional. Its successor is still attractive. The 2nd or 3rd-generation Prelude (I forget which) was a stunner from every angle. Various Accords progressed from fair to quite attractive through the generations.

Then comes the Element. The shape is bad enough, but those gawdawful primer-colored fenders are simply atrocious. Did Honda fire every stylist and hire a 3-year-old to replace them? Or did they all start ingesting psychedelic drugs? There is not one single appearance aspect that I find even remotely acceptable. This unfortunate trend to separate one's products from the sensible pack by intentionally uglifying them is not something to be encouraged.

ateixeira

Easy, now, Forester has unpainted cladding too, and I love the stuff.

Our Foresters take a bump at the same speed, mine is much more likely to be undamaged than your painted-bumper XT.

-juice

suydam

I agree with you on the Azteks (and not too many to be found now!!) but I think the Element is kind of ugly-cute. Reminds me of a panel truck we all crammed into during high school in the days when no one wore seat belts . . . I think the idea is to evoke that kind of nostalgia! The question is, how does it drive? Does it have the small SUV good handling or the ponderousness of the old panel truck? That's when nostalgia gives way to "thank God there have been changes over the years"!