Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

ateixeira

Mike: congrats to the wife! Just leave the head rest out if noone's there. It's better for visibility.

Cherokee or Forester? Well, they're very difference tools for similar jobs.

The nice thing about the Soob is that the center differential allows truly full-time AWD, with no buttons to push. So if you are going in and out of slippery conditions, you don't have to worry about turning it on or off.

Also, since you're commuting, I think you'll find the Forester is more comfortable and efficient. The guys don't have to know that!

Get the Forester, and slap on the rhino bar and fender flares. Your secret is safe with us!

-juice

bj02176

Power and Poise Put Ford on Top
By CHERYL JENSEN
HREE years ago, when I had a chance to directly compare small sport utilities, they were easy to rank: Subaru Forester first, Honda CR-V second and Toyota RAV4 third. There are more players now, and they are better -- but harder to choose among.
1. FORD ESCAPE With an independent rear suspension and rack-and-pinion steering, the Escape handled accurately and predictably, and it rode well. On loose, washboard surfaces, it refused to skitter or skate. Although a four-cylinder engine and five-speed manual transmission are standard, we drove a fancier XLT with a V-6 and four-speed automatic, which upshifted smoothly, downshifted quickly and didn't hunt for gears on hills. The economy rating is only 18 m.p.g. in town, but the Escape can tow 3,500 pounds -- by far the most in this group.

The four-wheel-drive system is automatic, but it also has a dashboard switch that locks the center differential, splitting the torque equally between front and rear wheels -- an advantage in deep snow.

Though it is 17 inches shorter than a four-door Explorer, the Escape feels relatively big, and its 33 cubic feet of cargo capacity give it a slight edge. The XLT's reclining, split rear seat folds very flat, and the rear seatbacks recline for comfort. On the minus side, there are head restraints and shoulder belts for only two back-seat passengers.

Other interior touches were also unimpressive: a flimsy rear cargo cover, a balky seat-folding mechanism and sloppy-fitting upholstery that partly covered the lower child-seat anchors.

2. TOYOTA RAV4 The last RAV4 was severely space-challenged, but the '01 is roomier. The second-row seats slide 6 inches fore and aft, providing a tradeoff between legroom and cargo space. They can even be removed.

The RAV4 is nimble, too, and easy to drive, although its body movements are not as well controlled as the Escape's.

Although the base price of $19,145 is attractive, it does not include features standard on the Escape, like antilock brakes and air-conditioning. But prospective buyers might consider that Toyota has a better record than Ford on quality and reliability, according to several customer surveys, and that the Escape was the object of four recalls before it had begun to sell in volume.

3. (tie) HYUNDAI SANTA FE In my view, third place is a tossup between the Hyundai and the Subaru, which are actually quite different. Someone who wants a more trucklike vehicle, with a lot of features at a reasonable price, may find a lot to like in the Santa Fe. Those who want more of an all-wheel-drive station wagon should be pleased with the new Forester.

I liked the Santa Fe's exterior styling, and that swoopy design carried over nicely to the interior. The softer ride results in a fair amount of body lean. The Hyundai did not seem as quick as the Escape; it was the heaviest vehicle in the group, and it had less horsepower and torque than the Ford.

3. (tie) SUBARU FORESTER The Forester feels the most like a car, although its ride was a bit stiff. And compared with the Escape, RAV4 and Santa Fe, washboard surfaces seemed to bother it more.

The Forester's new features for 2001 include a 31.5-inch sunroof that extends over part of the back seat. The downside is that it cuts into headroom back there.

5. HONDA CR-V Compared with the others, the CR-V felt most like a nose-heavy, front-drive car. Over a broken surface, the rear tended to hop and skitter, and the Honda felt less agile than the lighter RAV4. Nor did the CR-V seem as sturdy or stable as the others, especially on rough roads. But it does have clever touches, including a cargo cover that turns into a picnic table and a deep bin for wet clothes under the rear floor.

bj02176

No Recount: Escape Wins
By JAMES G. COBB
LAYING musical driver's seats attunes one to a vehicle's personality, strengths and quirks. Solid and substantial, the Santa Fe exceeded my expectations. The much-improved RAV4 is impressive in many ways. But the Escape was the standout, striking a fine balance between fun and utility and capably handling every road, trail or track maneuver.
1. FORD ESCAPE Its V-6 was peppy, its transmission was smooth, its handling was quick and sharp, its steering was precise and linear -- no wonder the Escape felt best on-road or off. On the test track, it was the least likely to come unglued.

Further, Ford's four-wheel-drive system -- which can split the torque between axles -- showed the most promise in light off-road driving. The Escape was able to climb partway up a steep hill of sand.

Negatives? Though the controls seem durable, bits of trim felt cheap. The instrument panel was the most trucklike. The cargo area was spacious but lacked the storage nooks and trays of the others.

2. TOYOTA RAV4 The original was frisky, but too tiny and tinny to be taken seriously. For 2001, the RAV4 has grown up. Adults can use the back seat, and the comfortable cabin is plush and Lexus-like. The styling is fresh and the instruments look great, with metallic trim and a sporty, central tachometer.

When pushed, the RAV4 seemed tail-happy, and its scant clearance made it the least adventurous. Also, Toyota makes you pay extra for items that ought to be standard.

3. HYUNDAI SANTA FE The Santa Fe feels larger and heavier than its rivals, more like a midsize S.U.V. from Detroit, and it came across (surprise!) as the most upscale. Its body structure felt strong and solid, and its road manners were generally good. The Santa Fe also had the only shift-it-yourself automatic, an aid on hilly back roads.

On the track, the Santa Fe fell in the middle of the pack -- not as proficient as the Escape or as eager as the RAV4, but more predictable than the Forester or CR-V.

4. SUBARU FORESTER You sit down low in the Forester, your first clue that it really is a car under the skin. And since it is classified as a car, the Forester meets the stringent safety and emissions standards of automobiles. Subaru's sophisticated all-wheel-drive system, which seamlessly shifts power not just from front to rear, but also from side to side, is a positive. But the horizontally opposed four-cylinder engine lacks punch.

The Forester is a pretty good car, a safe choice for someone who wants a small, all-wheel-drive wagon. But it didn't deliver any thrills, and I found it the least fun to drive.

5. HONDA CR-V Its sales success notwithstanding, the CR-V felt outclassed in competition. This is partly because of its dated design and partly because of its sedate four-cylinder engine. The least expensive test car, it also felt the cheapest.

In cornering, the CR-V tended to plow ahead, and it was hard to steer during a panic stop -- the kind of maneuver required if you topped a hill to find a deer in the road.

kens

Interesting reviews. Where are they from?

al2

I wonder what reviewers would say if they were actually buying an SUV for their own use. We tried them all except the Santa Fe and drove a Tribute instead of an Escape. Each one had some attributes that were better than their competitors, but we picked the Forester based on our needs, the quality, the performance based on comparison test drives and the independent reviews.

Although I took some note of the postings here, the enthusiasm of Subaru owners can also be taken as self-congratulatory--I bought it so it must be good. I'm sure there were many Ford Pinto owners who defended their selection as do Kia owners today. The one thing we didn't consider was price since the Forester was not the least expensive choice--nor were we going to buy a Lexus or Mercedes.

Everyone has to decide what is best for them. What amazes me is that people will buy strictly on brand loyalty, styling or even "its got to be made in America". To say that I'm going to buy an Escape because it looks nice and that people are not really having trouble with them and the world is just full of gripers, just doesn't make sense when you consider safety, peace of mind and the big financial outlay.

Also reviewers have cast a shadow over the independence of their writing if ads and favours are involved in the publication. This is not a whine about the Forester's low place in the reviews posted, but simply the fact that there are different strokes for different folks and we are happy--so far--with our choice.

Cheers, Al

bj02176

NY Times, log on to the on line edition, it's in the Auto section. You have to register to access the site. Supposedly was also in Sunday's NY Times

kate5000

Reviews should be taken with a huge grain of salt. Excellent reviews prompted us to buy Accord'EX back in 1997, and car is a dog, in terms of acceleration/handling, and that Honda reliability turned out to be overrated (currently am driving with red airbag idiot light on, and dealer cannot figure out the problem).

As for self-congralutory attitude, it's present on every forum of course, but Subaru fans seem to be a little more objective than Kia ones, IMHO.

You see, I do not congratulate myself on that Accord purchase. Cannot wait to rid of it.

ateixeira

The newer models always win. More ad dollars surely influence the results?

Smooth tranny? C'mon, that's the nightmare-ish CD4E used in 4 cylinder 626 models that are known lemons. Read the Escape topics.

The reviewer does not mention the Escape's 4WD system is part-time only, and can only be used on slippery surfaces else binding of the axles will occur.

If the Forester's unibody makes it a car, shouldn't the Escape's also qualify it as a car? The platform is a 626 (car), and so is the powertrain, with a Taurus engine and a Contour/626 transmission.

NY Times says the H4 lacks punch, while the Washington Post though it was a 6 cylinder! Different perspectives?

As for made-in-the-USA hype, I don't buy it. Heck, one could argue Subaru is owned by GM, so ultimately it's an american owned company. Jeep is owned by Daimler (the Chrysler half is silent), so technically a Neon is German owned.

-juice

pagemillroad

Thanks everyone for the info. on Forester vs. Cherokee.

Well, we picked up our black Forester S+ yesterday and I'm already in love with the damn thing. One big reason we might have bought the Cherokee instead would be the price difference.
Chrysler is offering a $1500 rebate so it's about $3K to 4K difference between a loaded Cherokee Sport & the Forester S+. But so far we aren't regretting shelling out the extra cash.

We had a Honda Civic EX before, and the Forester
feels like a Civic on steroids! The Forester
has way more power, handles better & just feels more agile & muscular than the Civic. It's not
too wimpy compared to the Cherokee either!

One complaint about our Forester though:
it has this annoying rattling sound coming from
the driver's side seat belt anchor (right behind
your left ear). Anyone else have this rattle?
And the whole car tends to gently wobble when idling.

pagemillroad

I'm still figuring out the optimal upshifting
on the Forester...The manual says
15, 25, 40 & 45mph for normal driving
20, 30, 45 & 55mph feel more right to me
though (around 3000 rpm). Am I gonna get killed on gas mileage?

Also, I'd welcome any comments on breaking-in a new Subaru. The manual says keep it under 4000 rpm for the first 1000 miles. This seems unusually gentle.

Thanks,
Eric

kens

Eric,

I find that shifting a little higher than 3000RPM (about 3200RPM) yields smoother shifts. Higher revs don't necessarily mean worse milage. It all depends on where the engine is most efficient. I've heard reports of owners who got better milage from shifting higher vs. at 2500RPM.

4000RPM is pretty commonplace. I've heard that a lot for new vehicles. Since the H4 engine has plenty of low-end torque, you probably won't need to hit 4000RPM+ for normal driving. After the break in period, you'll have all the chances to really experience the boxer engine.

Possibly an even more important factor is to not let the engine stay at one RPM for too long. This means varying speeds and gears on highway driving and not using cruise control.

Ken

natescape

Here are the promised pictures of my black Forester S+:
http://natescape.com/subaru/

pagemillroad

Nate:

Sweet-looking Forester!
It looks you have a pretty tall passenger
I have the same Forester color except mine has
the rear spoiler & the fender flares.
Have you thought about tinting your windows?
I've been thinking about tinting mine to cut
down on heat/glare but was wondering if anyone
else has done it.

-Eric

russ9406

I have a 2001 S+ Red. I tinted the rear 5 windows with a 20% solar guard tint, it looks great. I live in the NY city metro area on Long Island and paid $179 for the tint. I like it a lot.

Russ

pagemillroad

Russ,

Have you had the tint long enough to see if it
cuts down on interior heating?

About this driver side rattle,
it seems like I'm the only Forester owner
with this annoyance (tiny rattling inside the seatbelt anchor). I called the dealership & they said they could try to fix it but I'd have to leave the car with them for a day.

-Eric

norm949

I recently ordered a Consumer Reports pricing sheet on the Forester, and noticed that there are two prices listed for most of the options, just like Edmunds. For example, the cargo compartment cover is listed twice, once at $77/$119 (invoice/msrp) and once as a port-installed option for $80/$122. Which one should I use in figuring out my offering price? I plan to order my Forester, and I understand that I should be able to get all options at invoice, but which one do I use? Granted it's not much difference here, but it's greater on some other options, and when you start adding it all up, it can get significant. Thanks for any help here.

tlima

I have it too. Funny thing is that my past car (Ford Probe) had it too. If you ever get it fixed, post the details. Thanks.

-Tony

russ9406

Eric

I have had my car since the very end of September and therefore can not comment on the tint cutting down on heat. I suspect that it will help. There are quite a few post from people that the Tint will cut down on the heat. You should try doing a search in the modifications section.

Russ

natescape

Thanks! I love the vehicle. I actually have the passenger-side headrest up because when cruising on the highway, I like to rest my right arm on the back of the passenger seat. My wife is under 5'. :-)

I plan to get the windows tinted before the summer. I have a toddler and a baby, so it'll be important. Can you get the moonroof tinted too?

russ9406

I had thought about it but choose not to since you can close the sun shade. Let me know what you decide.

Russ

pagemillroad

Nate,

I plan to tint my black Forester once I get around to it. Thinking about 20% or 35% tint, what do you think?. Tinting the sunroof seems unecessary, I agree. Speaking of which, one good solution to my seatbelt rattle seems to be just open up the roof. The windnoise drowns out everything

I just hauled our Christmas tree home which would
have been hell to do in our old Civic.

I don't have kids but I've carried 3-4 adults
in my Forester & heards plenty of complaints about how cramped it is in the back. There's probably plenty of legroom for kids though.

e_l_green

Note that the Escape's 4wd is a full-time 4wd using a central viscous-type coupling. The Cherokee with 4wd defaults to part-time 4wd, but Full-time 4wd is also available (as an extra cost option) for the Jeep Cherokee, and has been so available since 1984, when the current Jeep Cherokee was introduced by American Motors Corporation (with funding by Renault). Remember, AMC had AWD wagons too!

Back to Foresters, the car I ended up with had the "Premium Sound Package". Yuck. I gotta get under that front seat and yank that "sub-woofer" out of there, it throws off the bass-treble balance dreadfully (I can't hear the treble and midrange parts because of the boom coming from under the seat, even with the bass turned all the way down to -5!). That, and the auto-dimming mirror, are in my opinion the two worst options that you could get for the Forester. (Well, the auto-dimming mirror at least is easy to work around, just put a patch of black tape over the front sensor and use the button on the left to pretend it's a "real" mirror).

natescape

I got the Forester despite the limited rear-seat room because I have a baby and toddler, so I knew I wouldn't really NEED a lot of rear-seat room.

That being said, we did go out with friends in the back seat and they thought it was spacious enough (they're probably 5' 8" and 5' 9-10"). I think it wouldn't do too well with a bunch of 6-footers in there, but should do OK for most other situations.

cleardc

Hello all,

New to the forum . . . have decided to buy a Forester and am considering buying used. I've seen a 1998 S series, 5 speed, 26,000 miles advertised (by a dealer) for $17,900. I would welcome views on the 1998 model and what folks think is a reasonable price.

I'm also looking at new Forester Ls. Can anyone recommend a good dealer in the Washington, DC area?

Thanks!

tlima

I would advocate purchasing new (if you can afford it). The new '01s are a much better and safer car than the '98s. I chose a new L over a new S to save coin - it really is a well optioned car for the money. Sure, the upholstery is not as nice as an S and there is no _huge_ sunroof as in the new S+, but for the money and AWD it is a good deal. Also, it is a _new_ car and was delivered with 14 miles.

Juice:
Was'nt the steel safety cage improved in '99s and up? I think I saw/heard this on a Dateline NBC crash test episode...maybe someone in the know can clarify.

-Tony

kens

cleardc,

What's the Kelley Blue Book on the 98 Forester S? That's pretty low milage so the dealer might be commanding a premium.

I currently own a 98 Forester S 5-speed and enjoy it very much. Like Tony writes, if you can afford it, get a new model because of the improvements Subaru has made over the years.

Some of the improvements are:

- Engine switched from DOHC to SOHC
- 5-speed tranny upgraded
- Some modification to safety cage

If I were to buy that vehicle, I would check the 5-speed tranny. Early 98 models had a faulty pressure plate that caused premature wear. Later 98 models (manufactured after March 99) have improved trannies.

Ken

rsholland

I would also opt for the 2001 model. We have a new 2001 S Premium, and love it.

The prices for a new Forester L is not going to be that much more than the $17K vehicle you were looking at.

Below is the link to Fitzgerald' Auto Mall. Their Subaru store is in Rockville, about two blocks from White Flint Mall, on Rockville Pike. Look up new Foresters on their site and you will see their bottom line no-haggle price on all models they currently have in stock. Besides the new Forester, we also have a '96 Impreza Outback, and both vehicles were bought there.

Bob

http://www.fitzgeraldautomall.com/

pagemillroad

I like it. Thanks for the info.
Did you put 17" wheels on your Forester? Those
wheels appear larger than the stock 16s

Unfortunately for me Oregon prohibits tinting any of the forward windows. But I've seen
plenty of cars around Portland with total tint jobs so maybe it's no big deal. The one tint place I talked to said they'd tint my car any way I'd want it, but for cash only & no receipt.
Pretty shady!

e_l_green

Note that '98 was not a good year for Foresters. It was the first year for the Forester in the U.S. and it had the typical first year teething problems, as well as some durability problems. Fuji beefed the Forester's frame and suspension up for '99, and for the 2000 model got a better behaving electronic automatic transmission. So if you want a Forester with the automatic, a 2000 or 2001 is what you want, if you want one with a manual, a '99 would be fine, but I would personally avoid the '98 for the same reason that I did not consider a 2001 Hyundai Santa Fe or Ford Escape or Toyota Rav 4 (redesigned this year) -- buying a car made during its first year of production is asking for trouble.

-E

p0926

Pagemillroad- Nope, those are the stock S 16" wheels. In GA too the law restricts the tinting of front windows of passenger cars. However, there are no restrictions on SUVs and for this instance the Forester can be considered a SUV. I'm pretty sure that regardless of what state you're in, if you stick to 35% or higher, no one is going to mess with you. It's the folks running around with limo tints on their cars that need to worry.

-Frank P.

cleardc

Thanks all! Very helpul advice. I've obtained what seems to me to be a good price quote on a 2001 L -- $20,000, with keyless, CD, and bikerack. Any ideas on what kind of financing I might be able to get? I know I can get 7% from my credit union. Would love to do better than that if possible. Thanks again.

norm949

cleardc - First, 7% is not bad -- credit union rates are usually hard to beat; that's probably what I'll end up paying on my new Forester, with 90% LTV . My credit union offers 6% on a 3-yr 80% LTV, and 7.5% on a 5-yr 100% LTV. For a typical 5-yr loan, 7% on $20K would get you $396 monthly payments vs. $386 for a 6% loan. The total savings over the life of the loan would be $600. Plus those $600 are "future dollars" -- inflation will reduce it's present value based on your discount rate assumptions. However, to get that low a rate, I would have to put more down, to the tune of about $2000. If you assume 2% annual inflation, the present value of the savings is around $575, or a 29% return on the $2000 "investment". If you can't beat that, then the 1% savings is worth it. I know this wasn't the answer to the original question, but still some food for thought. Good luck!

ateixeira

Fitzgerald had one right in their on-line inventory for $19.3k in the beautiful Silverthorn color. Heck, if you want to pay $17.9k I'd consider selling you mine and buying that silver one! Though you'd have to let me pull off all my accessories!

The new one is a better deal. The '99s got extra chassis bracing and cruise control standard, plus the Phase II engine. The 2000s got a few more options standard, and the 2001 got even more plus a face lift. So you get 2 trip odos, outside temp gauge, window antennae, and a bunch of other stuff in the deal. Plus 3 years longer warranty, and a new car to boot, all for $1400.

Darn, I just talked you out of buying mine used, didn't I? Soobs don't depreciate much so it just ain't worth it.

I have a 35% tint, and the A/C is frigid most of the time. I keep the fan at the "1" setting and it's still too cold - so I manually turn the A/C on and off every few minutes or so.

I think by 35% they mean the amount of light allowed in, and so it would mean roughly 65% of the heat is blocked as well.

My seat belt doesn't rattle, but let us know if you figure it out. It is adjustable for height, so try a different height setting to see if that helps.

-juice

al2

Frank, nice looking Forester, but as I sit here watching it pour rain, tinting windows is not high on my 'to do' list.

A question: I notice your crossbar on your roof rack seems to be over the door pillar where I've been trying to put ours. Did you have any difficulty mounting the front bar at that point? There seems to be a lot of bow to the crossbar so it is impossibly tight. (I do have the shorter bar on the rear). Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Cheers, Al

ateixeira

That's odd. I didn't realize the roof rack isn't on straight rails. Anyone measured?

-juice

rsholland

When I moved the cross bars on our Forester a couple of weeks ago, I too noticed that I had to adjust/move the cross bar clamps, as I moved the bar back.

Bob

ateixeira

I've only moved them a foot or so, and they did seem tight in some places.

-juice

wvsurveyor

oops, Forester is still Forrester

Mike

suba

I hate to be dense, but which of the topic numbers do I bookmark to continue to read about the Forester?
Walter Creedon

ateixeira

Right here, you're in the correct spot.

Also join us under the Owner's Clubs topics (Subaru Crew), which are more active.

-juice

ray70

My subie has an automatic transmission. The owners manual says to use second gear when going up and down steep mountains and when you need the engine to help you decelerate. I ASSUME this is because of the 50-50% front-back power ratio that Juice discussed earlier when you are in second gear.

This summer I was on some very steep and badly eroded logging roads. I followed the owner's manual advise and used second gear, but felt I should have been in a lower gear (especially coming off the mountain). What gear should I use on steep mountain roads? Is it alright to use first gear, or should I continue to use second gear?

Thanks a bunch.

Ray

ateixeira

Ray: good point. Hadn't thought of that, but you're absolutely right. Lower gearing as well as distributing the braking load evenly.

Using first for very low, crawl speeds is fine. Actually, driving on sand I found 1st gear was best, and my manual tranny's 1st gear ratio is higher than your auto's.

-juice

ray70

Juice - Thanks a bunch. I appreciate your help. I had wondered what gear you had used on the beach.

You guys do a great job with this site!!!

Ray

newsoobie

I haven't read through all of this since we "merged" with the "Forrester III" site, but can anyone tell me why QSubaru doesn't answer my e-mail re: ordering a ski rack for my son's 2001 Forester I'm picking up on Dec. 7? Did someone say awhile back that Darlene was under the weather? Any updates? Can't wait to see the new addition to the family!!!
Anne

hciaffa

I had been trying to get a hold of Darlene at Q because of a error on a part that was shipped to me but I had not been able to get a response from either the phone or e-mail. Finally about two weeks ago a service fellow picked up and told me that Darlene has been out because she was very sick. Anyway when I called again last week I missed her again, she had been in but left early for the day. From what I could gather these fellows don't know anything about any internet sales or phone sales and request for us to wait till she returns. I mentioned that maybe they can have someone else do this in the interim, we'll see.

ateixeira

Darlene had pneumonia, and she was recovering managed to get a sinus infection.

Ouch. A lot of people here have missed her. Please wish her my best if you do speak to her.

-juice

oregonsubie

I've had the same experience. I ordered a hood deflector and it never showed. I emailed Darlene and she got right back to me. Hopefully that means she is feeling better.
-OregonSubie

newsoobie

Yes, I just got an e-mail from Darlene in reply to mine of awhile back. When I order the ski rack, I'll give her our regards and tell her we're glad she is better. Thanks for the info--am picking up the new Forester tomorrow!
Anne

ateixeira

Anne: congrats and please keep us posted! Share a photo when you get it?

-juice

bakinaction

Hi all - I have been given a quote of $21,300 for a 2001 L with the following - extended arm rest, cargo cover, rear net, CD player, tint mirror, keyless entry and rear window dust guard. And the car is in stock at the dealer. Does that sound good? Was told it's a little less than 3% over invoice.