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Pontiac G8 vs BMW 3-Series vs Lexus IS 350

rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
edited April 22 in BMW
Is the new Pontiac G8, going to steal sales from the more traditional ELLPS sedans with it's big V8 power and luxurious interior for a fraction of the price ?

I personally think it will steal some sales from the others because not all people are worried about emblems and care more about the product. :)

Rocky
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Comments

  • lokkilokki Posts: 1,200
    Prince Charming (or the the G8) always looks good in the publicity photos.

    Many's the pretender who has claimed the title before, only to eventually go back to his job in the rental car trade.

    We'll have to wait till we get a chance to dance with this one a little before we start dumping our current heros.

    Oh, and regarding:

    I personally think it will steal some sales from the others because not all people are worried about emblems and care more about the product

    You might want to ask some of the executives at Volkswagen about that. They have some recent experience on that point.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Prince Charming (or the the G8) always looks good in the publicity photos.

    It won't in person. This car is essentially the Holden Commodore which was "World Car of the Year" I think.

    Many's the pretender who has claimed the title before, only to eventually go back to his job in the rental car trade.

    The G8, will not be a rental special because GM, is only going to import by demand for them. ;)

    We'll have to wait till we get a chance to dance with this one a little before we start dumping our current heros.

    That is fair enough. I think you will respect it a lot. Your getting one hell of a lot of car for your dollar. ;)

    You might want to ask some of the executives at Volkswagen about that. They have some recent experience on that point.

    Well VW, made a mistake by not giving the Passat more power. The "W" engine was a great one but VW made the mistake of not giving it more power via turbo charger. If the Passat would of made 320 hp. had a manual option, and perhaps a tighter sports suspension it would be more widely respected. I do think the current VW Passat is a respectable ELLPS car but it's sure not class leading. It's kinda like the Acura TL, it does nothing exceptionally well but does enough well to be desired. The one thing the Passat does very well is protecting it's occupants in crashes and that my friend you can't put a price tag on. ;)

    Rocky
  • rhmassrhmass Posts: 263
    Somehow I don't think the poster meant VW Passat, but rather the Touareg to make his point.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Well if he meant the Touareg, that was pretty sarcastic of him.

    Rocky
  • he meant the Phaeton.

    People care about the badge.

    Nobody wanted a 70k Volkswagen. And it was a good one.

    At that price point, why have the A8.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    he meant the Phaeton.

    That was an Audi A8. Has Audi always bee prestigious ? I remember in the 80's they weren't all that special to own because they had lots of eletrical problems but I guess because they are German they will be forgiven easier. :confuse:

    People care about the badge.

    I respectfully disagree. People that have money in the bank don't near as much as someone who has every dime spent come pay day so he/she can say "look at me". ;)

    Nobody wanted a 70k Volkswagen. And it was a good one.

    Well Volkswagen, customer service was ranked dead last a few years ago. It also was a rebadged Audi 8 and they did nothing really to distinguish them.

    At that price point, why have the A8.

    The Audi, had better customer service records and the A8 was arguable the better lookin' one of the two. Well in my eyes it was. ;)

    However this is suppose to be a G8 vs Lexus IS 350 & BMW 335i. The bottom line is this if someone is shopping for the best car in the $30K range they will buy the as loaded $32-33K G8. The base models of both the Lexus IS 350 and BMW 335i costs more dough. The base Lexus IS 350 is $3K more than a loaded G8. The BMW 335i cost's $38K but just like the Lexus, how many base models is either company going to produce because most folks will want at least some features.

    Rocky
  • Not a chance... The Pontiac G8 competes with the Avalon, the Lucerne, the Impala, the Ford 50..err..Taurus and the Nissan Maxima.

    The Passat is a midsized car. The Pontiac is NOT an ELLPS--period. It's a full-sized sedan. It may even be a full-sized performance sedan. However, Pontiac is not nor has it ever been a luxury brand.
  • Guys, the G8 is a LARGE car, not puny like a 3 series Bimmer.
    Wheels magazine here in Aus put it up against a 5 series Bimmer.
    As I have said elsewhere here, It out handled, out grunted, out valued the Bimmer by a long way.
    It was a v8 Bimmer, not a 6, against a v8 Calais.
    The SS Commodore are selling like crazy here atm, I hope there are some left for you guys next year :)
  • subearusubearu Posts: 3,613
    Well noted. When I saw the G8 at the Chicago auto show I too wondered about it's size comparison. It's kind of hard to gauge it when you can't sit in it :) . Any sites with specs and dimensions of the Commodore that compare it to the 5 (and others it competes with down under)? Something like the Compare tool here on Edmunds.

    -Brian
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Not a chance... The Pontiac G8 competes with the Avalon, the Lucerne, the Impala, the Ford 50..err..Taurus and the Nissan Maxima.

    What ??????

    You are comparing apples to oranges. Again allargon, is a badge more important to you than the product ? I know many ELLPS buyers are more worried about the emblem on their cars than what the car has in terms of quality, reliability, performance, etc. The Pontiac G8, clearly has a interior that is as good if not better than the Mercedes C class when it comes to design and touch. The BMW 335i's interior isn't much more luxurious than the G8's which should tell you something's wrong with this picture. Maybe the Bimmer and Merc are living to much off of past success ???? The G8 is a high performance RWD performance sedan that has enough luxury to be a ELLPS car but because it wears a Pontiac badge instead of a Lexus or BMW it won't get the credit it deserves. This doesn't mean it shouldn't be considred by cross shoppers looking for the best product for their dollar. ;)

    Now don't get me a wrong I do find the new BMW M3 to be quite attractive but by gosh how much is it going to cost ? Would I like to own a 08' BMW M3 ? Ya betchya !!! The last generation M3 didn't give the customer value like the mid to late 90's E36? ;)

    The Passat is a midsized car.

    And ? The CTS, Acura TL, Infiniti G35 are more midsize so what's your point ?

    The Pontiac is NOT an ELLPS--period.

    I agree all because the badge is preventing it. The greatness of the product as I explained above says otherwise. It has as much if not more technology, quality, fit & finish, than some of the ELLPS cars I described above. ;)

    It may even be a full-sized performance sedan.

    What ? This car is like 6 or 7 inches shorter than a current Grand Prix. That might be fullsize to BMW owners but not in the rest of the automotive world.

    However, Pontiac is not nor has it ever been a luxury brand.

    I agree. That isn't what I'm arguing. You are making this a brand war. I'm simpily comparing product not badges. If you step back for a momment and take off the badges then perhaps you could then do a fair comparo. ;)

    I personally am confident enough in myself that I don't need to wear other peoples names on my [non-permissible content removed] or have a certain badge on my car in order to make a fair judgement about it. I guess some people need the badge more than the product? The G8, perhaps offers the best overall value in this comparo of performance, luxury, reliability, fit and finish, a long with by far best in class value which you can take that to the bank. ;)

    Rocky
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,388
    Rocky,

    I had 2 Pontiac Grand Prix in my life. Nice cars. Now I can afford a BMW. Hope to get to the Ferrari/Bentley level real soon.

    Why would I now buy a G8?????

    Eye of the Tiger, Rock. Eye of the beholder!

    I don't care about "Stinking Badges!" either. Get in the car and drive. Feel the difference. When I shop, I will always try US in the future to see how they are doing. Cadillac doesn't do it for me so last time, I left the edgy brand out.

    Regards,
    OW
  • subearusubearu Posts: 3,613
    What ? This car is like 6 or 7 inches shorter than a current Grand Prix

    Check out http://www.velocityjournal.com/journal/2008/pontiac/16827sp.html for G8 specs. The wheelbase is actually a good 2+" larger on the G8 than the current GXP. Length is about 6" shorter than the current GXP. Both width and height are a smidge more on the G8. Interior room is very similar as well.

    For comparing to the 5 series, check out this http://www.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/edmunds/VehicleComparison?styleid=100761595&styl- eid=100814243&styleid=100703682&styleid=100793075&maxvehicles=5&refid=&op=3&tab=- specs

    The 5 series is actually shorter in length than the current GXP, but the wheelbase is a bit longer in the 5. Threw in the 3 series for reference and the Charger since it will likely be competing with the G8 as well.

    -Brian
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Okay so it's a couple of inches shorter. I saw another site a edmunds.com member posted that showed their was a 6 or 7 inch difference. :confuse:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    I've driven BMW's in the past and yes they are nice cars. Obviously your cash flow is much better than mine so yeah if you can afford Ferrari's and Bentley's you have reached the top. ;) Congrats..... :)

    My point in this comparo is to show us poor folks the G8 is a great ELLPS alternative without the badge but with a lot of goods. The Bimmer, is yes faster and probably handles better but it also costs thousands more just like the Lexus IS 350. The G8 is a drivers car with a great interior, lots of performance, for your buck. The Cadillac CTS, is all that and more. It has the badge and even more luxury. I'd love to own cars like your talkin' about like Ferrari's Aston Martins, Bentley's but even if I was that wealthy I'd never spend that kind of money on a car. The Cadillac XLR, Viper, Vette SS, would be as expensive as I'd go except I'd probably buy a mint Red 1994' Ferrari 512 TR my dream car. :shades:

    Rocky
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,388
    Rock, you have good taste! I also want you to know that I really respect all of your viewpoints.

    I am heartbroken that the US can not get out of it's own way in the automotive industry and spends way more cash developing bunker buster bombs that cost more than 10 years of all of Bently, Ferrari and Astin Martin Sales combined for a week of destruction in Iraq back in Dessert Storm.

    Regards,
    OW
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Is the Lexus IS 350 ever going to get a hybrid motor ? I know a couple of years ago that was a rumor and was curious if this is in the pipeline or has Lexus decided their is no market for a high performance hybrid ?

    Rocky
  • rikuriku Posts: 10
    highly unlikely since the IS-F is coming out with a 5.0L V8.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Yeah you are correct but that doesn't mean their isn't a market for hybrid 3.5 IS350's as it would instantly got the being 2nd best to king of the ELLPS segment without it being considered a Factory Tuner Sedan ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    My post oviously got taken dowm. Well I will only say this pal and that is I also really respect your opinin ;)

    Rocky
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Your post was waaay off-topic... as are many of these recent ones. ;)

    Let's get back on track, okay?
  • from_flfrom_fl Posts: 113
    I have owned several GM, Ford cars. All had major problem. I will not buy them again.
  • How do you know what the G8's interior feel's like, or if it's great at all?
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,388
    This is EXACTLY how to alienate customers just like FORD did with the 500. Most customers can't keep track of the numbers game and just peg to a familiar name.

    Good-bye Grand Prix. Slow sales for the G8 predicted. GTO gone. Just blend Pontiac and Buick and get it over with.

    Real good stuff. Marketing genius. G6 now G8...meaningless. GM will merge with Chrysler to keep this thing going. General Chrysler... must be Custer's last brother!

    Prices for this rear drive Grand Prix replacement should start just under $25,000 for a base V-6 model, about $27,000 for a bare-bones GT, and into the mid-$30,000 region for a loaded GT.

    Regards,
    OW
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Dan,

    Because I have read many reviews on the Holden Commodore. ;)

    Rocky
  • andy82471andy82471 Posts: 120
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL :P . In your dreams Rocky. Pontiac is a damaged brand. Wagoner must be smoking something if he is dumb enough to compare Pontiac with BMW and Lexus.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Well the G8, not only competes but does so with one of the best cars ever made when it comes to value. You get a 6-speed manual 56 more horses and if your riding in the back seat you don't have sit with your knees wrapped around your ears all for thousands less. :P The G8 interior rivals all in in the ELLPS segment but the G8 isn't just another Pontiac. It is a Holden, with a pontiac emblem. Obviously some research might help instead of making knee-jerk assumptions about products found under a brand that might not have a favorable recent past. ;)

    Rocky
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I went for a test drive of the G8 so I could see how well the G8 stacks up against the competition. The test drive was a bomb as you might expect, none in stock.

    Pretty easy to look at specs on paper and say Pontiac will own the world. The problem with GM products is they all look great on paper until you own and drive them.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,388
    Absolute truth. I owned 2 and they fall apart quick. Perhaps that is why GTO and GP will be no more. Kind of tells me Pontiac will meet Olds fate shortly.

    Just put all G cars under Buick and get it over with.

    Regards,
    OW

    P.S. For the sake of the G8, we should hold off comment until actual experiences are known but I would NOT be too optimistic.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I agree but let's look at this.

    1. Well the G8, not only competes but does so with one of the best cars ever made when it comes to value.

    Is this a fact or an opinion?

    2. You get a 6-speed manual 56 more horses and if your riding in the back seat you don't have sit with your knees wrapped around your ears all for thousands less. :P

    Meaning what?

    3. The G8 interior rivals all in in the ELLPS segment but the G8 isn't just another Pontiac.

    Fact or opinion? I guess that is like saying the 2010 M5 isn't just another BMW. :confuse
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,687
    Y'all just gotta appreciate ol' Rockylee's fervent belief that next year's (insert GM model here) will be the world beater that the current model was supposed to be. But isn't...

    Just needlin'ya a bit there Rock. You really should wait until the next great GM thing hits the streets before claiming a new world order, though...

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

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