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Pontiac G8 vs BMW 3-Series vs Lexus IS 350

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Comments

  • ingvaringvar Posts: 205
    Not a chance... G8 is a HUGE full-sized sedan. I don't know who will cross shop G8 and 335i.
  • bvdj84bvdj84 Posts: 1,721
    Though the new G8 is a nice upgrade from the previous models. A nice start, a little late, but a nice start to what GM "could" produce. Though performance specs may be close to the BMW, it is not BMW. Certainly has more bang for the buck in the used car market though. BMW, hold its value very well.

    They might cross shop only in the case the G8 is cheaper, but cheaper in value too(amount $$ worth). The BMW has value for the long haul, but, expensive upkeep. I don't think Pontiac can just put a car out there and think people will look at this car and then look at a BMW, Lexus. I think they are in a different class than GM. For GM to be put up higher in class, they are going to need years of repairing the reputation of so so cars. So a few might look at it, some already have. Only because they see it being fun and appealing, much cheaper, but with a little sacrifice in refinement and value.

    Someone would be crazy to buy a "new" G8 now, when the used market is so low.
  • People must have driven the G8 in the snow at this point.
    Please tell us how if you survived.
    ;)
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,284
    A G8-or 3er-with good all seasons or winter rubber will get around just fine.

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • Have any of you bimmer fans with their feathers ruffled actually driven a G8? It might surprise you. I havent as my lease doesnt run out for a year but the local Budget rent a car has one and Im going to rent it for a week to see. If it comes close to the 5 Im getting it as I dont care about badges even though the badges have proved to be what I prefer in the past. Ive had porsches,a ferrari, several benzes, a 3, a 6, and 2 corvettes. So I dont care what emblem it is if it goes good. The steering has got to be great and makes up for a lot with the engine.
  • steveinvtsteveinvt Posts: 17
    I have a 2007 328xi coupe with 20k miles. In general, I absolutely love the car. The 3-series is simply the best practical sports car/coupe that you can buy under $50k. It is a fantastic driving experience - the care just does not put a foot wrong. That said, the 3-series is not without its downsides. I personally hate the run-flat tires and, let's face it, you do pay a big premium for the badge.

    The lease on my BMW is up in less than a year, so I am starting to think about what to do next. Having read the reviews of the G8 in the mags, I decided to test drive one yesterday (a GT). I was seriously impressed. I have never driven a non-German car that handled so well. Very balanced and poised. Even with 19 inchers the ride was very compliant. The steering is nicely weighted and feedback is very good. The brakes were also very good - easy to modulate - though stopping distances seemed a tad longer than my 3 series. The v8 power is great with a fantastic, but muted, exhaust note. The interior is kinda black, but the car is nicely equipped and seems well screwed together. All in all, the car compares favorably with the 3-series.

    Now, here is the kicker. Even a fully loaded GT will only run about $30k or so with the GXP coming in well under $40k. To replace my 3-series will run about $44k. There is a lot I could do with an additional 14k plus interest in my pocket, so the g8 (along with the Camaro) will definitely by on my list.
  • My G8 GT is a really nice driver and very powerful. It's very BMW feeling in ride, handling, and power. I don't think you'll be disappointed if you get one. Also, you can do much better than $30K right now. The incentives are excellent. I have seen on the various G8 boards folks paying $25K to $27K for loaded GTs at this juncture.
  • pafromflpafromfl Posts: 47
    I traded a 2005 330i sport premium with 18k miles for a 2009 G8 GT sport premium and have no regrets. The BMW was more refined, handled slightly better, gave better gas mileage, and had more luxury features, but the G8 GT is just way more fun. A Rotofab cold air intake and Magnaflow street cat-back exhaust system restored the muscle car sound.
  • bvdj84bvdj84 Posts: 1,721
    Incentives will help, but even at those prices, they do not meet the real world values. Which are much lower in resale. Even with few 1,000 miles. You will already be so upside down on your loan versus real world value, it will take you years to break even.
    I would not buy new at this time. You will take a huge hit.

    I have seen G8's piling up at my dealer, the also have them sitting in the overflow lots, so perhaps a deal could be had in your area. Of course, their new. Check the used lots first. Just being realistic.:)
  • Let's face it, very few new vehicle purchases are sound from a financial point of view. I would agree that buying a used G8 GT for say $19K to $22K (depending on mileage, condition, etc.) may make more financial sense for some folks than spending $25K to $27K on a discounted new one. But even at this price, it's a performance bargain. Heck, a V-6 Malibu or Accord will cost you this!

    In my case, I chose to buy a new G8 GT because I was able to get it at the cost of a used one, using $3.5K in GM credit card monies I had accumulated and taking advantage of the red tag discounts when I purchased mine at the end of December. In the end, my final cost was $19.5K, plus tax. As you can imagine, I would have been hard-pressed to find an extremely low-mileage used one at that price. So in my case, it was worth it to buy new.

    With that said, could I trade-in my car now and get at least what I paid from a dealer?--maybe, maybe not. I would probably be able to get more money from a private sale, pending I could find the right buyer. I purchased this car, however, with the intent of keeping it for some time and only driving it in "good weather" as a pleasure car. So, buying new was important to me and resale value was not as much of an issue at this juncture. If I keep it in great shape, maybe I will luck-out and get a decent price for it some day like some of the low-mile '04-'06 GTO's are commanding today should I decide to sell.

    I would advise anyone looking at used G8 GT's to be careful to know what they are buying. Many of the used ones on the market now are former rental cars. Most of these vehicles have 8K to 15K miles on them and no telling if they have been abused or beat-up. Many folks, however, have been very happy with their rental car purchase, with no problems. If you are okay with a former rental car, that's great, but just know what you are getting to make sure everything is fine with the car. It could be a great value!

    Lastly, there is a glut of unsold new cars from other auto manufacturers as well. As for the G8, GM had its best month yet on the sale of G8's this past February with 2,705 units being sold. This was a 50% increase from the previous month! Also, this figure was on the heels of competing BMW 5-Series sold last month. Here is a link to the February GM sales figures:

    http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/84/84530/sales_production/Deliver- - - ies_February_2009.pdf

    Just my 2 cents.
  • Circlew, sorry you dont have access to good physician care. Maybe when your company gave you the options in your yearly insurance choice and you clicked the cheapest one and you ended up in a clinic with a 2 hour wait I can see why you are so bitter. You get what you pay for in healthcare as well as anything else. We have the best healthcare in the world. Maybe its expensive but when you can go in and get a procedure done with robots or better still one done with no cutting with lasers or ultrasound and you walk out and go back to work with no bed stay its worth every penny. Healthcare is a privilege deserved by people who actually pay for it, not a right. Look at the constitution. If you want healthcare diluted by losers and illegal aliens then you get what you get and you dont pitch a fit!
    I think the G8 looks rockin from the front, very aggressive. The back of it is sort of lame. I heard the steering is a little light on center. Anybody experience that?
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    You seem to be responding to a conversation that happened around two years old ago. Let's go back to leaving that be and stick to the cars in the subject line. There are conversations over on the Automotive News board where you can pursue discussion of benefits for automobile workers and other things of that nature.

    Thanks.
  • Yeah, I'm shopping new cars at the moment too and drove a 335d and 335i auto (didn't like the turbo lag in the diesel and didn't like the trans in the 335i either). Then I drove a 335i stick and liked it much better. Also drove a G8 GT and was quite impressed with the driveline and chassis. Nice steering feedback and great auto trans-- way better than the Bimmers' auto. And the engine feels and sounds great. Only problem with it is the exterior looks like a Japanese video game, with all the fake scoops and such. Interior is well-put together but not very pretty. Then I drove an '06 Z06. Holy crap that thing goes! And it's loud--but a good loud from the 427 V8. But the seats suck in that car and the steering is numb-- at least in that '06. Haven't driven a post-'08 Vette yet where they allegedly improved the steering.

    So, now what? I'd love a 3-series with the G8 engine and trans. Then you'd have something.

    Heinrich Gerhardt
  • bruceomegabruceomega Posts: 250
    Did you have the 335i auto in Sport mode, or regular Drive mode, when you drove it?

    I have a 535Xi with auto, and I find the Sport mode much more responsive than Drive, but Drive mode smoother in rush hour traffic.

    Thanks
    Bruce
  • Yes, tried it both ways. It wants to hold upper gears for as long as possible, it seems, probably to maximize gas mileage. It was annoying... you see a hole in traffic, punch it... and nothing for far too long until the computer decides to actually complete the downshift. It's like it can't decide whether to shift one or two gears at once and hesitates until it makes up its mind. Paddle shifting manually worked OK, but that's not how you drive in the city.

    The trans in the G8 was immediate in its downshifts. Worked exactly as a good auto should. I also drove a new CTS with the same trans as the G8, but in that application it was more like the Bimmer's auto. Therefore, the software calibration in the G8 is what makes it good.

    Heinrich
  • steveinvtsteveinvt Posts: 17
    Thanks to all for the advice re pricing and new vs used.

    My 3-series doesn't come off lease for another 9 months, so I've got some time. Leasing the BMW used to make sense b/c the great residuals and included service made it a cheap proposition for a few years. Right now, those residuals are falling fast and BMW is pushing customers to buy rather than lease. I am hesitant to buy a BMW because service costs out of warranty can be insane.

    If I get a G8 or Camaro, I will almost certainly buy new. For an American car, the resale values are dismal (as noted by several of you), so the purchase only makes sense if I decide I want to hold on to it until it dies. With a US car, I am not so worried about service costs out of warranty.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,284
    I am hesitant to buy a BMW because service costs out of warranty can be insane.

    The two main groups that perpetuate the "BMWs cost a bazillion dollars to fix" myth are:

    1. Shady BMW dealers who are trying to scare customers into a new or CPO car.
    2. Envious fools with a "sour grapes" mentality.

    Speaking of fools, on one of the Mazdaspeed boards(where opposable thumbs are a rarity) some doofus was telling me that he had a friend with a 2008 3er and how the oil service cost $175. I asked why the car wasn't covered by BMW's free maintenance; he said that it was- but the dealer put the price of the service on the invoice to show what it would cost out of warranty. Hmmmm, my dealer never does that, but then they charge less than 60 percent of that price to do the same service.
    In addition, where you live also affects servicing costs. My local dealer(Swope BMW, Louisville) performed an Inspection II(AKA the 60,000 mile service) and a brake fluid flush on my wife's X3 for just $374. In contrast, Santa Monica BMW charges $1105 for the same work. I know that the cost of living in California is higher than that of Kentucky, but 295% higher? There are also many good independent BMW shops that offer great service for a reasonable price. And if you are a member of the BMW Car Club you'll find that most dealers and indie shops offer Club discounts of up to 25% on parts and or labor.
    If it makes you feel any better, my first truly fast BMW(top speed of over 140) was a 1988 M6 that had just gone out of warranty. The original owner dropped it like a hot potato in 1992 fearing exorbitant running costs- and I gladly picked it up. The only thing that actually was pricey was the engine- a modified version of one of BMW's successful competition engines. The short block alone cost $15K back then. Well, I autocrossed it, tracked it, won countless Stoplight Grand Prix, and in general had a ball with the sled. There were no budget-busting disasters. I only sold it because my kid's car seat wouldn't fit in the rear bucket seat. I still miss it... Having said all that, the newer 7ers and the V8/V10 M cars CAN be pricey to maintain- but the E90/E92 3ers simply aren't that expensive to run.
    Note that I'm not saying that the G8 or Camaro would be a bad choice. I just wanted to point out that the running costs for a 3er aren't nearly as bad as some seem to think.

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    I drove a g8 gt recently. General impressions:

    * The sport seats are very nice.
    * Wish the sides didn't slope in so much. My head is practically resting on the roof rail.
    * The engine, at low RPM, is very very quiet.
    * The auto trans started out in a high gear, and i felt like i was lugging the thing. Press gas more, still lugging. Then press a little more and it drops 2 gears and i'm going like a bat out of hell. Would have liked a manual better.
    * car is pretty composed even over rough roads, but felt somewhat ponderous.

    Seems like a good car for the price, but not sure if it's going to come out ahead of a 335i for me. Maybe the GXP would be better ( manual tranny, stiffer suspension ).
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,496
    “I also drove a new CTS with the same trans as the G8, but in that application it was more like the Bimmer's auto. Therefore, the software calibration in the G8 is what makes it good.”

    Actually, the trans. in the CTS is a 6L50, in the G8 GT, it is a 6L80. They are physically different as well as the software \ calibrations being a lot different.

    I test drove a fully loaded CTS DI [ and drove a more mundanely equipped CTS as a rental for almost a week ] and I would agree that the CTS is calibrated much more toward the ‘luxury sedan’ end of the scale – where the G8 GT is calibrated as a ‘sport sedan’. There were several aspects of the CTS trans. [mis-]behavior that I found very annoying, when driven in a [ um ] spirited manner. Though when driven like a more traditional luxury car, with my daughter in the co-pilot’s seat, in & around San Diego for a couple of days – it was acceptable.

    YMMV.
    - Ray
    Very happy 6L80 driver . . .
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