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Pontiac G8 vs BMW 3-Series vs Lexus IS 350



  • from_flfrom_fl Posts: 113
    I have owned several GM, Ford cars. All had major problem. I will not buy them again.
  • How do you know what the G8's interior feel's like, or if it's great at all?
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,258
    This is EXACTLY how to alienate customers just like FORD did with the 500. Most customers can't keep track of the numbers game and just peg to a familiar name.

    Good-bye Grand Prix. Slow sales for the G8 predicted. GTO gone. Just blend Pontiac and Buick and get it over with.

    Real good stuff. Marketing genius. G6 now G8...meaningless. GM will merge with Chrysler to keep this thing going. General Chrysler... must be Custer's last brother!

    Prices for this rear drive Grand Prix replacement should start just under $25,000 for a base V-6 model, about $27,000 for a bare-bones GT, and into the mid-$30,000 region for a loaded GT.

  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011

    Because I have read many reviews on the Holden Commodore. ;)

  • andy82471andy82471 Posts: 120
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL :P . In your dreams Rocky. Pontiac is a damaged brand. Wagoner must be smoking something if he is dumb enough to compare Pontiac with BMW and Lexus.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Well the G8, not only competes but does so with one of the best cars ever made when it comes to value. You get a 6-speed manual 56 more horses and if your riding in the back seat you don't have sit with your knees wrapped around your ears all for thousands less. :P The G8 interior rivals all in in the ELLPS segment but the G8 isn't just another Pontiac. It is a Holden, with a pontiac emblem. Obviously some research might help instead of making knee-jerk assumptions about products found under a brand that might not have a favorable recent past. ;)

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I went for a test drive of the G8 so I could see how well the G8 stacks up against the competition. The test drive was a bomb as you might expect, none in stock.

    Pretty easy to look at specs on paper and say Pontiac will own the world. The problem with GM products is they all look great on paper until you own and drive them.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,258
    Absolute truth. I owned 2 and they fall apart quick. Perhaps that is why GTO and GP will be no more. Kind of tells me Pontiac will meet Olds fate shortly.

    Just put all G cars under Buick and get it over with.


    P.S. For the sake of the G8, we should hold off comment until actual experiences are known but I would NOT be too optimistic.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I agree but let's look at this.

    1. Well the G8, not only competes but does so with one of the best cars ever made when it comes to value.

    Is this a fact or an opinion?

    2. You get a 6-speed manual 56 more horses and if your riding in the back seat you don't have sit with your knees wrapped around your ears all for thousands less. :P

    Meaning what?

    3. The G8 interior rivals all in in the ELLPS segment but the G8 isn't just another Pontiac.

    Fact or opinion? I guess that is like saying the 2010 M5 isn't just another BMW. :confuse
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,487
    Y'all just gotta appreciate ol' Rockylee's fervent belief that next year's (insert GM model here) will be the world beater that the current model was supposed to be. But isn't...

    Just needlin'ya a bit there Rock. You really should wait until the next great GM thing hits the streets before claiming a new world order, though...

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • subearusubearu Posts: 3,613
    Shouldn't be any G8's in dealers until at least August according to several of the auto rags.

    Wonder when you could order one, sight unseen. There's always people out there that do so. I need to drive it before I buy it.

  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Oh well I'm not going to loose sleep over it. GM, has been #1 for what, 80 something years ? :P GM, will be #1 for the next 80 and if they aren't their will be hell to pay in Congress, and congress knows this already thus is why you will see change as bills are already being drawn up to level the playing field a bit ;)

  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    There is no law that states that GM is entitled to stay No.1. Being No.1 has to be earned through selling cars that people want to buy. Toyota will easily surpass GM this year or early next year unless GM does buy Chrysler (doubt that will happen). Some of your posts are devoid from reality.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,258
    I agree with you fervently regarding GM's dethroning. No. 1? In fact, the evidence shows quite the contrary in terms of market share erosion.

    Does anyone really see this bleeding stopping anytime soon? Is there any real changes that will turn around the slide?

    I know the true answers but what do I really know? Just one thing...the trucks are OK and the C6 is great but the rest I would leave for distance shores. Too many great choices for it to end well for this once great but arrogant company.

    The definition of insanity is expecting change without change.

  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,487
    "...see change as bills are already being drawn up to level the playing field a bit"

    Bills are being drafted to outlaw the UAW??? That will certainly help level the playing field... :blush:

    I appreciate your allegiances to GM, but I really think that the fault lies within GM, not the stars... For YEARS AND YEARS they kept building the same terrible cars. Instead of improving interiors, upgrading engines, better build quality, etc. they just kept putting lipstick on J-car and X-car pigs. Sure, a core group of loyals kept buying the same ol' same ol'. But were they attracting new blood? The shrinking market share Magic 8 ball says, "No."

    Personally, the arrogance of GM ticked me off to no end. Did they have some of the best engineering and design talent in the world? Yes. But I guess the Accountants union was stronger. They just kept building the same terrible cars year after year...

    But, on paper, the future's looking a bit brighter. Mostly from what I've seen of the '08 CTS. Let's hope that history doesn't continue to repeat itself...

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Bills are being drafted to outlaw the UAW?? That will certainly help level the playing field...

    laurasdada, The UAW aren't totally to blame. They do blame themselves for allowing idiot beancounter CEO's like Roger Smith, to let the curve go across the plate while GM, was caught looking. The UAW, promised recently they will play a bigger role on product launches and said they will play a role in signing off on it so bad cars do not make it to market causing a loss in jobs.

    Rick Wagoner, is not the same old traditional CEO we've seen at GM. He knows GM, has the capability to build world class cars like the G8, and 08' CTS. The problem is their is a very unlevel playing field that needs some correction. Yes healthcare, is a major issue nowdays and yes GM, signed the UAW contracts to insure employees of GM get first class healthcare. The difference is GM, is 60-70 years older than Toyota, thus has a large retiree number it has to pay for. These obligations cost billions and instead of knocking GM, for paying these bills we should be proud of them as these folks will not be living off of your nickel when they are old like so many other americans. So I'd rather look at ways to cut healthcare costs in this country instead of griping about it. Toyota, in 15-20 years will face similar problems as more and more employees are elgible for retirement. I think a national healthcare plan is the only solution to get a grip on sky rocketing healthcare costs and fix a broken out of control system.

    The other major issue as has been discussed is unfair trade policy's. Whether your a democrat, republican, independant, most reasonable folks recognize we have a MAJOR trade defecit problem that keeps growing each year. Foreign governments want to dump freely on our market their exports but put up barriers on our exports. China, for example won't let you sell automobiles their without a huge tariff thus company's like GM, have to build their products in China, instead of the ability to export U.S. built automobiles. As rep. Duncan Hunter (R) California
    said U.S. manufactors are at a 74% disadvantage before anything is built. This is not fair IMHO.

    The final major obstacle for domestic manufactors is currency manipulation. The Japanese yen is artficially manipulated by 38%. The Chinese Yaun is 40%. What this means is if Toyota builds a car in Japan, and GM, builds a car in america and all costs being equal their is anywhere between a $2,000 profit advantage on cars selling in teens. approx $3-6K profit advantage $20-35K range. A $12-13K profit advantage on luxury brands $60-70K. We are talking about billions in profits because the yen is artificially manipulated and the Japaense, as recent as last week said they thought the yen was valued to high and wanted to decrease it's value even more. Toyota, still imports 50% of their vehicles. ;)

    These are the REAL ISSUES that are affecting corporations like GM. Sure GM, can't fix it's past but that doesn't mean its future should be punished because of some bad management of the past. Rick Wagoner, is a good guy and has his heart in the right place. I think we should give him a level playing field to compete on and if GM, still fails they have no one else to blame but themselves. I however am very confident this new GM, will not make the mistakes of it's past and plenty of great cars like the G8 and 08' CTS will be launched over the next couple of years. Some of which we've already have spy photo's of and some we've already seen at auto shows like the 09' Camaro, Enclave, Corvette SS, Chevy Impala, Buick Velite, etc, etc, and the 2008 Pontiac G8's Zeta Architecture is the spring board for many new exciting RWD automobiles.

    I just hope more american's will be willing to forgive GM's past and give GM, another try in the future. The 2008' Pontiac G8' is an exciting car for those optomistic about GM's return to greatness to take for a test drive. I grew up in a UAW-GM, family and even I and my family now can say that GM, has finally brought automobiles to the market they are proud to build and can be confident on reccommending one to family and friends. Trust me this was a concern in the past. ;)

    Just my $0.02 laurasdada, it's nice to talk to ya and hopefully we can have more nice discussions like this one in the future.

    Now back to the G8 vs IS350 & BMW 3 series ;)

  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    UAW having a say on what model gets built? Are we seriously to believe that they will exercise that right in the interest of building better cars or preserving obsolete job positions? The record of UAW influence in starving Canadian plants that have the best quality records do not speak well for discretion.

    Not sure how nationalizing healthcare can reduce healthcare cost, without essentially letting the sick to die without adquate care. Nationalizing healthcare is not going to suddenly produce a couple million slave healthcare workers that can render service for next to nothing. If the pay is not there, people simply do not enter the healthcare field; if the large number immigrant nurses and doctors and nursing and medical students are banned as a consequence of the nationalization, the supply of heathcare providers will be even more limited. The problem with high healthcare cost is two fold: not enough people are willing to do it, and too much subsidized money chasing what few providers are out there. The manufacturers should never have joined the ranks of subsizers for healthcare. Workers should take care of their own healthcare needs, and as a consequence will use healthcare much more judiciously. Yes, some may argue that other countries have nationl healthcare . . . wonder why almost all the leaders of other countries, when they get really sick, they seek treatment in the US? When the citizenry are wards of the state, they are serfs of the state, as is the case of many countries; only the elite in those countries can hop on a plane and get treatment in the US. Not sure why we want to make this country just like that. BTW, it's not because American doctors are naturally smarter; the most talented doctors all over the world tend to immigrate to the US!

    The bit about China slapping huge import tarrif on cars is simply untrue, at least since 2005, when it joined WTO. For what it's worth, GM was lobbying to keep the old tarrifs in place so its factories there could have an advantage.

    Currency manipulation is another fig leaf. If Yen and Yuan were not pegged to a range vis. Dollar, those currencies would go to near-zero simply because their population have little faith in their own currency. Would you keep your life savings in a fiat currency printed by a non-transparent government? So does that mean democratic nations have a natural disadvantage in trade? Not at all. Think about it, making cars is a tremendously polluting process. Our system of relatively non-interventionist government is what keeps the faith of the world capital market in the US; that's what enables us to enjoy some cars without having to deal with the pollution of carmaking.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,258
    Here's the deal from the consumers vantage point. I would only buy American cars because I believe what you believe. Honestly. But junk is junk and after many experiences with quality issues in my small world with th U.S. brands, I am sick and tired of waiting.

    Put another way, if I got into a Cadillac CTS, and felt what I felt in December '06, I would have purchased the CTS.

    To me, there is no product the U.S. offers that is even close what you can get from Japan, Europe and Korea. Wait until China gets going!

    It's going to be a very bumpy ride for GM. The company could have been in WAY better shape if it opened it's eys long ago in the 80's when Japan began to offer top quality.

    You know the rest 'cause it's history.

    I still have a real bad tast in my mouth.

    Again, take the CTS. Looks bad to me. I can sketch a car on paper that looks much better.

    Bottom line. If the 3 or even the G had a GM badge, the competition would be designing to beat the combination.

  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    As you all know, these conversations are going on in many places over in Auto News. There has been little comparison of the subject vehicles here so far. If we want to compare them, let's get to it, okay? Otherwise, there's not much point in continuing here.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    brightness, I'll reply to your post in the Big 3 and domestic issues forum. ;) Same for you OW ;)

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