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Radar/Lidar detectors

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  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,950
    Apparently no one speeds in the winter and this topic auto-archived due to inactivity.

     

    I'm thinking someone must have gotten one for Christmas though?

     

    Steve, Host
  • It has been many months since anyone posted to this group so I hope that you are all awake and will provide some constructive input and discussion because there has been a lot going on in the radar world.

     

    Many of you may know that Mike Valentine of Valentine One engineered the original Escort Detector. He left the company more than 10 years ago, settled any legal grievances he had with them and opened his own company and trademarked the Valentine One detector.

     

    Valentine One has by all tests and reviews far outperformed all other detectors in all testing until recently! If you could afford the pricey V1 at 399.00 plus shipping--you bought it--hands down, no questions asked.

     

    Recently, the V1 failed the POP test. It failed to pick up the newest police radar that has POP technology. The POP radar guns are not currently widespread, but they are being ordered in mass by police departments around the country so there will be many more on the streets soon and if you do not have a new detector--you will get caught.

     

    The newest Escort passed the POP test. In response to this, Mike Valentine went back to the lab and figured out a way to engineer POP detection into his detector--the V1. Only his newest unit has this technology so maybe the V1 is back up on top again?

     

    But Escort is still touting a new comparison test that shows it is better than v1 (before POP was included in V1). This test is by a guy who says he is a retired cop Ron Reyer at http://www.radarbusters.com/default.asp

     

    Ron also sells Radar Detectors on his radarbusters website. He pushes the Escort and it is his testing that proves that it is better than the V1. But he also sells the Escort and profits from it. Mike Valentine will not give Ron Reyer a distributorship to sell the V1 on his radarbusters website. Mike Valentine won't let anyone sell the V1 except direct from his own company. He wants to control all sales and keep all the profits. If Ron Reyer were to come out with a test comparison that put the V1 ahead of the Escort, he could put a dent in his own retirement fund and may have to rely on his cops pension to get by.

     

    So---from the folks out there that are tuned in please respond to the following:

     

    1. Are you convinced based upon Ron Reyer's test that the Escort is now better than the V1?

    2. If anyone has experience with the new V1 with POP technology that just hit the market--please report on that.

    3. Is the V1 worth the 100 bucks more you have to pay for it over the Escort?

    4. Has anyone found a detector other than the Escort or V1 that is better so we don't have to keep making these 2 guys rich? Mike Valentine's house is big enough!

    5. If you were going to buy a new detector today, which one would you buy?

    6. Is it possible to drive a vehicle without a radar detector? :)

     

    Thanks.
  • My 1st detector was the Passport by Cincinnati Microwave. It performed very well and was very well constructed.

     

    I replaced it with an Escort(4800?) and was not very impressed with it.

     

    I currently have 2 Valentine-One detectors and have been very impressed with its performance and construction. It may not be as small as the Escorts, but the arrows are a must-have. It is worth the price premium to me.

     

    If I was in the market, I would buy the V1. I haven't seen anything on the market that impresses me as much as the V1. I plan on upgrading at least one of my V1s with POP technology at some point. I don't think its being used in my state at this time.
  • Thank you for some very valuable input. I did not know that that the V1 can be upgraded to include future technology like POP. That is an important feature.

     

    Where on your windshield do you mount/place your detectors to achieve optimal performance?

     

    Thanks.
  • Being able to upgrade the V1 as radar technology improves is a great feature.

     

    I mount mine at the top center of the windshield, right between the headliner and the rear view mirror. This gives the rear antenna an unblocked view out to the rear of the car.

     

    I use the suction cup mount and tuck the power cable under the edge of the headliner, down behind the A-pillar and under the dash to the cigarette lighter. The V1 power cord is the same as a household phone cord, so its easy to buy or make custom lengths.
  • ocuihsocuihs Posts: 138
    I'm upgrading my V1 to 2-band POP for the sake of it. http://www.valentine1.com/pop/

     

    But some additional information on POP mode:

     

    POP mode -- transmits a 67 milliseconds (ms) burst (from a cold start) intended to avoid detection by radar detectors. Radar detectors cannot detect the short 67 ms burst, the trade-off is the radar gets an uncertain and unusable measurement. The operator is NOT allowed to lock target measured speed in POP mode, and the manufacturer recommends switching to normal mode for an accurate speed measurement. The POP mode is used as a selling feature, but has no real practical use (other than potential operator abuse). The POP mode is a useless feature because of the frequency instability resulting in speed measurement uncertainly, not to mention wasting time taking a bad measurement (operator must still use normal mode for several seconds to get an accurate measurement).
  • ocuihsocuihs Posts: 138
    More information:

     

    MPH recommends that the officer obtain a tracking history of a speed violator by operating the radar in normal transmit mode after determining with POP mode that the vehicle is speeding. This is because most radar case law is based on tracing a vehicle in normal radar operation. The information obtained in POP mode is accurate and reliable, but may not be supported by case law in court.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 13,585
    Gee, makes me feel bad that I'm still using my 10YO Uniden detectors. Still work pretty well, even though they currently sit in the cup holder or cubby hole. At least no one will ever see them down there!

     

    I was considering getting a new one, and did some research lst year on the radarbusters site. one of the car magazines (Motortrend I think) did a comparo test a few months back that was pretty interesting also.

     

    I like the idea of the cordless ones to avoid having those cords hanging all over the place, especially in our van, where the power plugs are way down near the floor. That way the Solo could hang on the visor.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • I don't own a cordless, but my understanding based upon some reading/research is that no matter what brand cordless you buy, they are never as effective as a corded model. Full current is needed for the detector to operate at maximum performance. Battery operated ones also go into a "sleep mode," to save battery power which is not helpful when you need a 24 hour awake sentry to protect you at a moments notice from smokey.

     

    I would check into that first before buying.
  • I think that getting the POP upgrade is important. I don't profess to be an expert in this area, but my common sense understanding of the technology of POP is that if smokey activates POP on cars in front of you, it is a "warning" that he could switch to "full" mode at any time and may get a reading on your car. So if your detector is able to warn you that POP is being used ahead of you, you can slow and avoid getting cited.

     

    If someone's understanding differs on how POP operates, please write in.
  • ocuihsocuihs Posts: 138
    Just upgraded my V1 and warranty same as new for one (1) year. Some new firmware and hardware upgrades, hardware is Serial Number area being replaced with a different Serial Number.

     

    When the signal-identification system determines that a current warning is NOT, in fact, a radar threat, it notifies you with a "dee-dah-doo" sound and terminates the warning. At the same time, the letter "J" will flash briefly in the Bogey Counter.
  • pathstar1pathstar1 Posts: 1,015
    If you drive reasonably close to the speed limit, and at or below during police "events" (advertised "crackdown" on speeders or make up quota times) you do not need a radar detector.

     

    A radar detector will not help you if the police use "instant on" radar and there is little traffic. The RCMP in Canada use instant on. The only way to get a warning is if there is other traffic ahead of you that they are checking. My V1 sees that and I get enough warning to be careful. Instant on radar is enforceable (it's not the POP type, just a regular radar unit with a "transmit" button - and is very common these days). They don't press the button until they "see the whites of your eyes" ;-). I don't know how they know I'm coming when I can't see their vehicle due to a hill between us, but they do. They are very good! Oh, and no, I don't have any speeding tickets, thankyou V1!

     

    Looks like it's just about time to send in my V1 for an upgrade. It's the older model with the case extention below for the Lazer detectors.

     

    The other thing I've been considering is shutting down the "X" band part (a further advantage of the V1 is you can shut down each band including lazer if you like). That band is used by door openers so the detector is very busy in the city warning me that there are doors around. I haven't seen an "X" band radar for a few years now, except on those trailer mounted speed readout units.

     

    I've also never been impressed with the lazer part of my V1. It gets tripped by LED high centre brake lights and red neon signs, and usually the police are too busy or lazy to use lazer traps these days.

     

    Some operating tips for all of you.
  • Does this new feature work in all modes?
  • bat1161bat1161 Posts: 1,784
    I know that Laser is what nabbed me last April, one of the reasons I am following the discussion here. I have an older BEL850 that noticed nothing, much ti my dismay.
  • ocuihsocuihs Posts: 138
    How Traffic Laser Works

     

    To measure speed, traffic laser sends out a beam of pulsed infrared light. The beam is tightly focused: at a range of 1000 feet, it’s only about four feet wide. Infrared is invisible to the naked eye — the operator can’t see it and neither can you. But it is light and it behaves accordingly. It travels in straight lines. And it’s easily reflected. Traffic laser works as a rangefinder. It sends a pulse, then waits for the reflection from the target car. From the time needed for the pulse to go out and back, and from the speed of light, it calculates distances to the car. These pulses are sent frequently, up to 500 times a second. The changing distance to the target over time is speed. Laser can’t see over hills or through opaque objects. The laser beam must hit your car directly, line-of-sight from the laser gun, to measure speed. Under ideal conditions, it can read speed in less than one second. The pencil beam means that, in operation, laser is very different from radar.

     

    How Laser Detectors Work

     

    A laser detector is an electronic sensor calibrated for the infrared wavelength used by traffic laser. It is extremely sensitive. And it responds in as little as .006 seconds. It should be mounted inside the car with the sensor facing through the glass toward the laser. When the beam, or scatter from the beam, strikes the detector, it warns instantly.

     

    Finding laser...How It Operates

     

    Laser’s narrow beam imposes significant limits on its use. It must be deliberately and carefully aimed. The operator can’t be moving. The operator must have a clear shot, preferably not through glass. So laser traps are always ambushes. The operator lies in wait. As with radar, the operator can’t read speed from the side. The operator must have oncoming and departing traffic. Look for a cruiser angled to the road, or broadside. Watch overpasses and entrance ramps. The operator will likely rest the laser gun on a partially-down side window to steady his aim. The operator will pick off traffic as it comes. Or goes. A laser warning requires immediate response.

     

    Details To Remember About Laser

     

    1. There is no moving laser.

    2. All laser encounters are like Instant-on radar; virtually no advanced warning.

    3. Laser alarms are rare, so be prepared to respond.

    4. Laser not effective in rain.

     

    Laser False Alarms

            
    1. Red neon, from stores and occasionally from brake lights of other cars (example: Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy, Olds Bravada and Buick Rainier), can imitate the characteristics of speed laser.

     

    2. The electrical systems of some cars generate electromagnetic interferences, triggering laser alerts.

    Possible solution: Try relocating detector within the interfering car; also, your dealer may have a factory fix.

     

    3. Note that laser-equipped-cruise-control cars, like Infiniti FX series, Mercedes, would triggered laser warnings.
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    Nice summary - thanks!

     

    tidester, host
  • docnukemdocnukem Posts: 485
    Can your own vehicle (if equipped with a lidar-based intelligent cruise control) cause a false alarm by reflecting back at you?
  • pathstar1pathstar1 Posts: 1,015
    Yes, in fact if not built well it would overload the radar detector even without a vehicle ahead to reflect from. It's just a microwave radio transmitter, and if your receiver is close enough it will be overloaded.

     

    It might be possible to fix by installing a metal shield to stop emissions toward the windscreen. There are still some reflections off the road. These reflections may prove problematic. As an example, modern moving radar units (most radars are of this design), monitor the reflections off the road and compare them to the reflections off the suspect vehicle to compute speed, thereby eliminating calibration requirements for the police vehicle speed.
  • docnukemdocnukem Posts: 485
    I am more curious about the laser/lidar detectors and ICC systems. I am planning on a new car that uses a lidar-based ICC rather than radar and wondering if that would interfere with our Escort. I don't know much about them, but I assume the lidar-based ICC systems are highly directional.

     

    Thanks
  • ocuihsocuihs Posts: 138
    I need to add one additional laser false alarm that tested and found recently in my original summary post:

     

    Those overhead highway L.E.D. signs would triggered laser warnings when you drive under these signs.
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