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Buying a Used Sienna



  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    YOU are the one who needs to read more about the USA version of the 2006 Sienna 3.3L engine. Are the 2006 Sienna 3.3L engines different in Brazil than those sold in the USA?

    Do you know more about the 2006 Sienna 3.3L engine than Toyota does? OR, could you be misinformed? :confuse:

    Toyota states that the 2006 Sienna 3.3L engine has "Electronic, with Toyota Direct Injection (TDI)" wich is EXACTLY the same description for the 2007 Sienna 3.5L engine.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    The HP and Torque graphs for the 3.5L V6 AND the 4.3L V8 don't have much value when comparing the 3.5L V6 with the 3.3L V6...both of which have Toyota Direct Injection. Can you post side by side HP and Torque graphs for the 3.3L and the 3.5L?

    I have NEVER written that the 3.3L has more power at any RPM than the 3.5L. On the contrary, I pointed out the 3.5L must be revved higher to get maximum HP or torque than does the 3.3L.

    As also written earlier, it would be interesting to have an ACTUAL comparison test of the 2006 Sienna 3.3L side by side with the slightly heavier 2007 Sienna 3.5L driven at the same time on the same course where the conditions are as nearly the same as possible.

    It is remarkable that the larger 3.5L V6 in a 2007 Sienna can get the same EPA fuel economy rating as the 3.3L V6 in the 2006 Sienna. :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    You were wrong about the redline, so what's your source for the 3.3l having DI?

    Wikipedia says it does not:

    The relevant quote:

    uses Multi-fuel injection(MFI)

    2nd source:

    quote: "It uses MFI fuel injection"

    3rd source:

    quote: "sequential multi-port fuel injection"

    4th source:

    quote: "Fuel System Multi-Point Injection (MPI)"

    And, drum roll please, from Toyota itself:

    quote: "Common rail fuel-injection system"

    Sorry but your 3.3l engine does not have Direct Injection. :P
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I could not find a torque curve for the 3.3l engine, tried but no luck.

    You say the torque curve for the 3.5l doesn't have much value, I beg to differ! It has TONS of value.

    You're talking about peak torque, just one single data point.

    I'm talking about the torque curve, i.e. torque at every RPM. How can we discuss torque if you're only willing to use one single data point and not all the information I posted right in front of you?

    the 3.5L must be revved higher to get maximum HP or torque than does the 3.3L

    To get MAXIMUM, peak HP and torque yes, but you do *not* have to rev the 3.5l to get MORE torque and MORE HP than the old engine made, enough to make the 2007 Sienna significantly quicker then the 2004-2006 models.

    In other words, just because peak power happens later in the rev range doesn't mean there isn't more power available at low rpm. There IS more power available at low rpm. Torque too.

    I agree it would be nice to see torque curves side by side, but as flat as the 3.5l's curve is, the 3.5l is making about 10% more torque across the entire rev range.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    My source is the 06 specifications page of the 2006 Toyota Sienna brochure that has EXACTLY THE SAME DESCRIPTION for the 2006 3.3L V6 engine ignition that the specifications page for the 2007 Toyota Sienna brochure has for the 2007 3.5L V6 which is Electronic, with Toyota Direct Injection (TDI).

    Has Toyota been guilty of deceit when they published their Sienna brochures? :confuse:

    Why did Toyota increase the 2007 horsepower by a larger percentage than the torque when torque is THE more important item in a minivan?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Has Toyota been guilty of deceit when they published their Sienna brochures?

    Yes, actually. The 2007 brochure says the LE package 3 does not have power seats. Guess what? Mine does.

    Also, the 2007 brochure says 20 gallons. The owner's manual and other sources I've seen all say it's 21 gallons.

    The brochure also says the LE package 5 drops the VSC option but that's also not true.

    I don't know who prints these things but the fact checker was on vacation. I find it so misleading it's not even funny.

    Even the colors are off. The light blue looks too light in the catalog, it's darker in person. Even the interior color is off, it's dark in the catalog and lighter in person.

    Any how, I would not be surprised to see that the 06 brochure had more mistakes as well.

    Shame on whoever published those.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    HP went up more because the engine maintains its torque up to a higher rpm range.

    In other words the 3.5l breathes a bit better in the high rev range.

    It's bigger displacement so it makes about 10% more torque, and that explains 10% of the HP gains. The better breathing at high rpm explain the rest of the HP gains.

    HP = (torque x rpm)/5252

    The 3.3l's torque dropped off sooner, so HP peaked sooner. Basically the torque drops faster than the RPMs rise.

    The 3.5l torque curve is flatter, so at RPMs increase the drop in torque is smaller (less than linear) so HP increases at higher RPM.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    YES, Toyota is as guilty of providing FALSE information as are Edmunds and CR. My 2006 Sienna LE is one of the BIGGEST disappointments in my life. :sick:

    The Sienna has NOT provided the value for the $$,$$$ spent that I got with the $$,$$$ paid for the 2002 Chrysler T&C. The Toyota Sienna and Honda Odyssey are overpriced. :lemon:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    You paid more, but you'll get most of it back at resale.
  • siennamisiennami Posts: 116
    A couple of years ago I was driving a 2000 Sienna, which I really liked; it was a good van. However, someone else liked it more than I did, and they stole it. :cry: By the time I found it(and note that I say I found it, not the police), my ins. had paid it off)I was in a VW Passat. Last summer, I injured my back, and getting into my rather low-slung Passat became a problem. Not only that, I became a foster parent to an infant. Ever tried placing an infant seat in the back seat of a Passat? Kinda hard to do when you're as tall as I am! Anyhoo... I found myself in the market for a larger vehicle, and since I "know" the Sienna, that's what I wanted. To be honest, the salesperson at my local Toyota dealership aggravated the living daylights out of me, so guess what I ended up with? A brand new Kia Sedona, when all I wanted was a gently used Sienna! Fast forward a year..... I don't like the Sedona. It's big, it's bulky, like driving a tank, and the gas mileage just ain't no good!
    So.... I'm looking at an '06 LE with 33K miles on it for $20,990. And I'm gonna do something I should've done last year. I'm gonna compare the two. I need your help. Can you tell me honestly that the Sienna gets really good gas mileage? I really need to know that. The Sedona doesn't. To me, when I got behind the wheel last year to testdrive the Sienna, it was so familiar, and I liked that. Call me crazy, but I like knowing where everything is. I need to settle in my mind for once and for all which is better for me. The guy I talked to on the phone said that he'd try to work with me in my "upside down-ness". 'Course I'm not going alone.... 'cuz I'd probably come home with an XLE with every bell and whistle known to mankind with an $800 payment :P
    Sorry for rambling! I really believe that if I'm gonna be making a car payment, it'd better be on something I like driving!

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I strongly recommend the new 2007 models, because of the 3.5l engine. It had more reserve power and torque, but more importantly the gas mileage is the same on the EPA scale, and perhaps a bit better in the real world.

    I only have about 1800 miles, but still, my mileage has been excellent.

    My last full tank I averaged 25.1mpg, and this is actual miles traveled divided by fuel used, the slightly optimistic trip computer read 25.5mpg.

    We took a drive to Six Flags and for that trip we got 27.6 mpg. Then we drove from DC to Ocean City, MD, and got 28.8 mpg. Coming back, all highway, I averaged 29.8 mpg. It just keeps getting better.

    At one point, all highway, speeds of 50-65 mph, the trip computer actually read 31.3 mpg, average, not instant. That dropped when my speeds picked up. That was the 29.8mpg trip I mentioned above.

    If these numbers sound good, I suggest a 2007 model. You can get a CE for $22k brand new. The rebate is $1500 right now. An LE will cost a tad more, but people are getting package 3s for under $25k now, which is still great.

    That's $4 grand above your budget, but remember you'll have longer warranty coverage and get it back at resale anyway.
  • siennamisiennami Posts: 116
    Now what exactly is a package 3? I always get confused by the different packages.... ;) The reason I want used is I'm cheap. Property taxes for a brand-new Toyota will be out of this world in my hometown! :P
    Thanks for your advice. I saw on the dealership website the different '07s that they have there, and I have to admit that a brand-new Sienna is very tempting+they offer a lifetime warranty on their new vehicles.
  • siennamisiennami Posts: 116
    Never mind, I saw what the Pkg. 3 is, and whew! Nice things, but in any case..... I'm not sure that I'll be in a Sienna anytime soon... My "upside-down-ness" is a deal breaker, for sure! :cry:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Keep in mind the brochure is a little off. Actually, it's more than a little off.

    Package 3 includes power seats, though the brochure says it doesn't. Trust me, mine has them, they're included.

    Basically, though, you get power doors on both sides and the safety feature I wanted most - stability control. Alloy wheels and rear discs, too, so it looks good and stops nicely. Rear pads are easier to change, too.

    Pkg 3 basically pushes the content from Odyssey LX levels to Odyssey EX levels, for not much money. It's a great value, IMHO.
  • siennamisiennami Posts: 116
    Okay... where did you find a CE for that price? I went and test drove one in Columbia, SC today, and the selling price was over $25k. I couldn't find an LE for under $25k. Not only that, they had an CE on the lot that had a drop-down dvd player in it, which jacked its price up to over $28k. All-in-all, I was looking at $30k, and they wanted a $1,300 downpayment, which I just don't have at the moment. Shame, though, because the driver's seat is just wonderful for my back. The Kia's driver's seat can't compare in any shape or form. I really could kick myself, because I am really physically hurting right now, and when I think of having to drive for long periods of time..... Now, I will have to say that I was disappointed in the lack of certain amenities in that vehicle. For example, no privacy glass. What is up with that?? And, I still can't believe they had a CE on the lot for over $28k. The dealer from Florence has contacted me, and I'm wondering if I should even waste my time and his traveling over there. If I do, I'm going to print out that information about TMV and have it in hand. I think that the only one that I can afford right now is the CE, which is fine. Like I said, I was loving that driver's seat. They were willing to give me $15k as a trade-in allowance, but I am just too upside-down.

    Thanks for your advice!

    Michelle :D
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Shop here:

    Fitzgerald Toyota has no-haggle prices, just add $99 for processing because their prices even include freight.

    I actually got an e-quote from that was a little bit lower, and ended up buying mine there.

    Get quotes from them, then ask local dealer to beat their prices (watch out for added fees).

    It might even be worth making the trip up to MD if local CEs do cost $25k, because I think at fitz they are $22k or even less.
  • We found a 2005 Sienna LE minian that has 117,000 km in London, Ontario, Canada. The dealer is asking for $15,995. The van had a major service that has been performed at the dealership and had new brake pads installed.

    We are concerned about the high kms. Please let me know your comments on the milage and asking price.

    Thanks, Sri.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    That's about 70k miles, not too bad.

    Plus, they must be a lot of trip miles given how quickly they accumulated.

    I really have no idea about the used car market in Canada, but I'd expect the 3.3l V6 to be good for a long, long time before any major rebuild, probably 200k miles. It was a very robust engine, and never had the issues the 3.0l predecessor had (sludge).
  • I am in the same boat that you are..i found some info online this mornging in the," idaho examiner" their Sienna they use for on the job work, starting sputtering and making odd smells...long and short of it...Toyota along with a few other companies have sludge prblems...oil that bogs down/up and makes a sludge like gue in your engine...$6,000 repair...ouch!
    toyota has know about it for years and has not changed it yet...paid out class-action suits up to 2002 and now they words things in contracts that make it real hard to re-coup any $$$....
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The old 3.0l V6 was affected, but the 3.3l V6 was OK, and the new 3.5l 2GR is from a new engine family.

    Not sure what you mean about "not changed it yet"? The engine has been upgraded/replaced twice. :confuse:

    Also, they extended the warranty on those to 100k miles.
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