Toyota 4Runner

joatmon

I have a '97 runner that came with Michelin LTX M/S. They still had about 20% tread left when I replaced them at 74k. I put on Michelin Cross Terrains. After 12k on them, I can report that they give a superior on-road ride, handle and corner better in dry and wet conditions. They look like they will meet or exceed 74k of the LTX M/S's. Very Pleased.

Good luck,

Jack

beagles3

I am impressed with the mileage from your Michelins!!! I have about 97,000 miles on the runner and I think I will try the Michelins next time. I just bought my third set of tires...Have you had any trouble with balancing the tires on your factory 16 in rims?? I had some issues because the vehicle became very finicky with the tire type/tread when it cam to replace the OEM. Had alot of fwy vibration...

joatmon

My runner has 15" alloy rims. However, I have found over the years that Michelins seem easier to balance. I usually end up whith less balancing weights than with other brands. Because I used oversize tires, my odometer is off 5%. So, my mileage is really 74k * 1.05 or ~77.7k

I worked in a tire plant 34 years ago. (time flys). You can usually see about a ~1/4" seam on the tire sidewall where the carcass overlaps. (This seam goes all the way around a tire, including under the tread where it's not usually visible). On hard to balance tires, this seam is usually very noticible. I can't find one on Michelins! (How'd they do that?)

Jack

tbcreative

Depending on what you plan on doing with your truck, I HIGHLY recommend BF Goodrich All-Terrain T/A KOs. I was skeptical about their ride, until someone told me about their composition, and how they're made to be smooth on-road, but aggressive off-road. I was pleased to find that they were right, and I don't plan on ever having anything but. The first time I drove on them, they were so cushy, I thought I was riding on foam.

I put some 30" x 9.50"s on my '98 GMC Jimmy 4x4, which rides rougher than the current 4Runner, even with the Monroe Reflex shocks I added, and the difference was night and day! I was considering Michelin A/Ts, Goodyear All-Terrains, Pirelli Scorpion A/Ts, and Bridgstone A/Ts, but my friend who's been a district manager for Discount Tire told me that in order to get the smooth ride my wife wanted, but maintain the utility of an all-terrain tire, BFGs were the way to go. He said he was going by his personal experience, as well as input from years of customer feedback. He said that the Goodyears were great tires, as long as you rotate them often enough, otherwise they're prone to uneven wear, causing a rough ride. Same with the Bridgestones. He told me the Scorpions rode a lot rougher than the BFGs. The Michelins were just too darned expensive, for not as aggressive a tire. If I wasn't doing much off-roading, I'd consider Toyo and Yokohama's All-Terrains.

The only down-side is the lack of a mileage warrenty, but my friend assured me that as long as I rotate them on a regular basis, I should get at least 50k miles out of them. They have the puncture resistant sidewalls, but I purchased the extended warranty that covers punctures and defects for a mere $7 per tire, which has come in handy and paid for itself in the past, because included with that is a lifetime of free rotation and balancing. They haven't even shown wear in their first 8000 miles, and I've been on long trips and off-road with them quite a bit.

The bonus with these tires is how cool they look! My truck looks much tougher with the most aggressive tread out there, next to mud-terrains or swampers. When I get the new 4Runner, I'm running right over to Discount Tire, trading in my OEM tires (whatever they wind up being) and slapping on some 17" BFG All-Terrain T/A KOs!

jf01

Does anybody know if technology like vvt-i can be put on larger displacement engines? When looking at the Highlander with vvt-i, it's interesting that it can achieve roughly the same amount of horsepower and torque. I wondered if the same could be done for displacement larger than 3 liters. If so, why doesn't Toyota seem to use it on their larger engines?

cliffy1

My understanding is that vvt-i will be part of all new engines from Toyota. We'll see if this hold true for the new and larger V6 but I would bet we will.

jf01

The recent discussion on independent rear suspensions reminded me of a discussion me and a friend had. On independent suspensions, is there still an axle, especially a drive axle? I thought that on independent suspensions, there are something more like half-axles that drives each wheels separately, while my friend thought there's still an axle that drives the wheels. I thought this would make this into something other than independent suspension. Can somebody tell me which was correct?

tbcreative

In the case of Independent Rear Suspension, where the vehicle is a rear-driver, or an all-wheel-driver, there is basically what you describe, half axles that drive each wheel separately. Your friend is incorrect, because what he's describing is a live axle accompanied by any number of suspension components, from a multi-link set-up, to springs and shocks, to air bladders. The only difference between these and older systems are the abcense of leaf springs, creating a much better ride. Some set-ups, like the one on the GMC Envoy/Oldsmobile Bravada with air compressors, are arguably as good or better than many IRS systems. The '03 GX 470 and 4Runner will use a similar, more advanced system that also allows for different ride heights, for easier ingress/egress and off-roading. The '03 Ford Expedition will have a similar system, but uses 4 Wheel Independent Suspension, similar to the new Explorer, so no live axle in either.

For the time-being, until technology and materials become cheaper for more heavy-duty 4WIS, the live axle set-up is still the load capacity and towing leader, which is why some manufacturers like GM and Toyota, still use it.

For more on this discussion, check out this post: #1723.

kjack100

On a '98, the first time around at 45,000 miles, I replaced the factory Dunlop GrandTrek's with the same tire. Same ride, not great, but ok. Then three months ago I bought some Michelin LTX M/S's. Wow what a difference. If you don't go off road much or at all, that may be your tire. If you do off road a bit, I would think the Michelin cross terrains would be the ticket.

On the '03, I have to say I'm disappointed so far about two things, if they prove out. No third seat? Gee, if Ford and Honda can do the fold-in-the-floor third seat, why not Toyota? I don't plan to haul a lot of folks around, but nice to know you could if you wanted to. Having kids, I know it's a big help.

And the side hinged rear door seems like change for the sake of change. The current configuration is perfect I thought. Like Rward or someone said, for tailgating or unloading in the rain, the current design makes a lot more sense.

bravocharlie1

Has anyone else found problems with the quality of paint on their 4Runner? I have a white 2000 SR5 and I have noticed that the paint on the corners of the roof line along the sides are really starting to show wear or "scratching". It looks as if the paint job wasn't up to the usual Toyota quality. This is the only place on the truck where this is occurring.

I hand wash the truck with a soft mitt and wax constantly so the results are not from some harsh car wash. Just wondering if anyone knew of a documented problem with paint for this year, or maybe I just got a less than perfect paint job.

jf01

Had some paint problems, 2000 Millenium Silver Limited. The problem was on the bumper. It developed faded spots all along the bumper. At first it looked like maybe it could be some smeared wax, or some kind of vapor on the bumper (noticed after I washed it). But tried to wash it off and it was still there. The blurred spots felt smooth, like it was under the clearcoat or something. Before the wash, I had had a front end mask, and thought maybe this was the problem. Took it to a Toyota dealer, and the service guy who checked it said he didn't know what it was, that maybe it could have had something to do with the mask. Took it to an auto body place next door, and they told me to take it back to the dealer, because it was paint failure. I took it to another dealer, and this time the service guy acknowledged the problem, but told me that I had to get it acknowledged by a Toyota Rep, who was only at the dealer on Wednesdays (I took it in on a Saturday). When I finally got it in, and the rep saw it, and I set up an appointment, got the bumper repainted. Seemed like it fixed the problem (at least in the original area), but washing again recently, noticed another spot where the blurring has appeared. I don't understand why, since the WHOLE bumper should have been painted (right?). Haven't had time to take it to the dealer again (Wednesdays are busy). Anyway, that's my paint problem.

hiluxsurf

Here's another pix of the Land Cruiser Prado which will be the Lexus GX470 for the US market. The website is actually the "Artic Trucks" where they modified a bunch of Land Cruiser for Expedition/Search and Rescue in the Artic. So 98% of the pix are Land Cruisers. ~wish I could afford one~

http://www.arctictrucks.com/ArcticTr.nsf/pages/gallery1.html

tbcreative

I can't get that site to load, but the current Prado, which is the vehicle that you're speaking of, is NOT the new GX 470. Yes, they took the design cues from the Landcruiser Prado, but the 2003 GX 470, '03 Landcruiser Prado, and '03 4Runner are based on an all-new, larger platform. The current Prado is based on the same platform (chassis/interior/drivetrain) as the current 4Runner with different sheet metal. So what you're seeing is the current design. Check out these pictures I have posted to see and compare the current Prado to an illustration of the NEW Prado, a pic of the GX, and 2 spy shots of the new 4Runner:

http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/tbcreative67/vwp?.dir=/Automotive&.dnm=2003_4RunnerPrado.jpg&.src=ph&.view=t&.hires=t

peter78

I checked the local inventory of a Georgia dealership, to see if they have any 2003's on order. No 2003's but I did notice, no future shipments of 2002's and then I noticed the inventory for the entire Southeast United States. It is usually around 400 to 600 units. It is now 1 (one) and the due date is 6/9/02. Is this the end of the 2002's?

tbcreative

Mike, I was able to get that site to load. Very cool stuff! I wish Toyota would offer a conversion like that through the dealerships... Anyway, those are definitely the current model Prado, which will be replaced by the new '03 platform coming this fall.

cfeldman

Well I bought the vehicle.
Thunder Cloud Grey,sport package,alarm,hood deflector,cargo mat,topw hitch,roof rack, rear wind deflector,sun roof and had leather installed.
Got it for 30k even including tax.
After driving it in yesterdays NY storms, this vehicle is rock solid in slippery weather.
Acceleration is not as bad as everyone reports unless you want to take off like a rocket In that case get a sports car. Dunlop tires are nice, but I have no idea what to keep the pressure at for this vehicle. It says maximum 51psi??
The sunroof is pretty large. Feels like a solid vehicle. Anyone recommend how often to change the oil and how often to rotate tires?
Thanks
Cliff

editan

after I've my 60,000 miles maintainance, when I stepped on to accelerate it makes this rattling sound, what would cause this? thanks

peter78

"cfeldman", sounds like you got a great SUV. As for oil changes, the manual has two schedules for oil changes. 7,500 and 5,000. This engine is not quite as stressed as the 3 liter engines found in the Highlander and Camry and Lexus RX300's and oil changes I think are not as critical. I would think the 5,000 miles interval would be fine, 7,500 would be pushing it. Personally I change my oil every 3,000 miles with Castrol GTX 5W30 or 10W30 and the manufacter's oil filter, on all my vehicles. I recently changed the 4Runner to Mobil One and decided to go 5,000 miles. I think one of the important things to longevity in a engine is clean oil.

On tire rotation, 5,000 to 6,000 miles is ideal. I went with a local Goodyear shop to rotate the tires. They charged 42 for balance and rotation (high price) but they will rotate the rest of the life of your tires for free (cheap price). I would look for a local place that will offer a one price forever tire rotation. I guess they are hoping for you to do other work when you stop by. By the way my tires are not Goodyear.

cliffy1

Peter78 is on the money. The manual calls for 5000 or 7500 oil change intervals, but I've always preferred 3000. I also believe in very frequent tire rotations on trucks. I wouldn't go beyond 6000 between them. If you do that, the tires will last you a long time. My Tundra has 35K miles and I still have enough tread to last another 15K with ease. This is in spite of towing a 4200 pound boat for the majority of those miles.

As to tire pressure, I believe the book calls for 30 or 32 pounds.

tbcreative

I don't need a sports car to take off like a rocket, my truck does it just fine. Acceleration and power are very important to a gear-head like me, who used to drive nothing but muscle cars. I got turned on to trucks when those all but died, and came to really appreciate the utilitarian and off-road aspects of an SUV. But I still love to have my head thrown back into the headrest. I just don't get that with the current 4Runner, so I can't wait to have 2 options to try out when the '03 arrives! It sounds like you got a great truck, Cliff, and for a steal. Toyota made some nice improvements to the transmission last year, so the 4R has better pick up than previous models, but what can a muscle car era gear-head do? I gotta' have more!

hiluxsurf

Correct tire pressure should be on that label in your driver's door frame. My guess would be 32psi(cold) for the 265/75X16 size tires.

I rotate my tires every 3500 miles

Oil change: I use Mobil 1 (synthetic) so I follow the owner's manual oil change interval of 7,000 miles.

Have fun with your new Runner!

cfeldman

Thanks everyone for the feedback.
Seems there are two schools of thought on tire pressure. My mechanic says use the maximum pressure listed on the tire, and others say use the label on the inside of the door.

cfeldman

Is it normal when driving for the shifter handle to move slightly from front to back. While driving yesterday I put my hand on the shift handle and it moves slightly.

peter78

Yes, shifter shake is normal. Here is a copy of a post from over a year ago.

"#374 of 1778 Boomer by cliffy1 May 04, 2001 (04:10 pm)
Shifter shake is very normal on our trucks. Also, you are wasting money by using anything over 87 octane. Stick with what your owners manual tells you."

As you can see Cliffy has been helping us with his good advice and I just want to say thanks for the good advice and for Cliffy to keep up the good work. Hey, if it were not for Cliffy, I would still think the wires on the passenger rear side window was a defroster, (as my salesman told me) and not a radio antenna.

cliffy1

Your mechanic told you to use the maximum pressure listed on the sidewall? Is he out of his mind? I know of no mechanic on the planet who would give such advise. The automobile manufacturer tells you what the correct pressure is for your car. The tire manufacturer just tells you what the maximum the tire can handle.

Oh, and Peter78, thanks for the kind words.

mrwhipple

I wouldn't recommend using the maximum tire pressure. Your vehicle will ride like a brick, not to mention it will become much easier to hydroplane when the wet stuff hits. You'll also wind up wearing the tires out much faster (balding and cupping) and have less traction due to the fact there is less rubber on the road when highly inflated.

trdsctwo

I have owned 4-Runners both of the current model (1996-2002) and the previous model (1990-1995) and have found that the previous engine (SOHC 3.0L V6) was smoother but less
powerful. I first noticed this when I bought my 1995 and had a 3.4L Tacoma as a loaner.
The newer engine is much more powerful but less smooth on acceleration. Does anyone else
who has owned both find the same thing? I thought that this may have just been the 5 spd
Tacoma but when I bought my 1996 Ltd automatic it felt the same.

hookba

I can't answer the question re smoothness, as I'm looking to buy my first 4Runner. But my question is similar. The newer engine (1996-02) is more powerful and also listed as getting better gas mileage. Is it also less reliable? Were there bugs in the engine in the first few years (1996-97) that have been worked out?

cliffy1

There was a bug in the '96 when it first came out. They ate head gaskets. This was embarrassing for Toyota, because the older ones also had a head gasket problem, but they were different problems. The old 3.0 liter had an engine design issue that caused problems between 60K and 100K miles. Those were covered under a special program that covered them under warranty out to 100K miles.

Many of the early production '96 model had bad gasket material that caused them to go with as little as 100 miles. If it didn't go before 20K miles, it wasn't defective. It was confined to a fairly small batch of units, but it did exist. That problem was found early and corrected.

joeaz1

Does anyone know where the fuel filter is located?
Any help would be great. Thanks.

beagles3

I have always been told between 29 and 32 psi...The dealer seems to put 32 while the tire dealership (who does the rotations) says stay at 29...So, your guess is good as mine??

mkapad1

Went to a dealer to price out a 4 Runner. This is what I got: SR5 sports edition with sports package, convieneance package(roof rack,mats, tow hitch etc..) tubular running boards and dealer installed leather. He wants to give it for 30,200 + tax+tag and then -1500 rebate. which come to 31800. Is this a fair price or can i sqeeze some more. Also wondering if I should wait for 2003? How does this stack up compared to a Pathfinder LE

redwhiteblue

check the passenger side inner frame rail at rear torsion bar mount.

maximum3

Today is the last day for the $1500 rebate on the 4runner. I need to know if I need to get the car today to get such a good deal. Will I still be able to get a good deal on a 2002 over the next few months if I want to wait and us out weather I want the 2003?

***I heard a rumor that the 2003 new V6 will not be available for 2-3 months after the release date. Does this mean I will not be able to get the 03 4runner V6 until Dec. or Jan.?
I am looking at a 2002 sports edition, rear heater, convenience package, moonroof, color keyed running boards, moonroof, alarm system, and added leather for $22500 w/tax out the door. Should I wait? If I do am I missing out on the good deal after today?
Please help need to know fast. Thank you!!!!

cliffy1

It is more than likely that we will have the same rebate next month and every month until they are gone. The risk you run is that availability will dry up on the 2002 long before the 2003 shows up in September (yes, January or so for the V6).

tbcreative

Mans and Max, it really depends on what's important to you and what you want out of an SUV. I personally think the current 4Runner is lacking too many things like power and a better interior, so I'm waiting in great anticipation for the '03. I won't buy one until I've driven both the V6 and V8 and had the chance to compare the two, but I have the luxury of waiting because I don't need a new truck yet. There probably won't be any good deals on the new design until December or January anyway.

So, what I would do if I were either one of you, is I'd make a list of things you like and dislike about the '02, compare it to what you know about the '03 from the discussions here and the information about the GX 470 (check out http://www.suv.com if you haven't already), weigh in how urgently you want or need a new vehicle, and make your decisions based on that conclusions you draw.

It's a tough one, because if you love everything about the current 4Runner, but you don't know what the new one even looks like that's supposed to be better in a lot of ways, then that's a really tough call. If I had been content with less power and a joystick for a center shifter among other things, I would have bought a 4Runner in '98, and now be in the same boat, contemplating whether to trade for the '02 Sport Edition, or wait for the new 4Runner.

From these spy shots http://makeashorterlink.com/?A18A24CF and from what several insiders are saying, the new design should be worth the wait. There is something to be said for an all-new design and the head-turns you'll get...oh, vanity be damned!

bigorange30

I was considering a 4Runner when I bought my QX4 in January. The only reason I didn't buy the Runner is because of it being so underpowered. It is a beautiful ride though. Maybe another color will look better, but so far what I see of the 2003 4Runner is so ugly, I would go out and jump on the good deals of the 2002 if I was inclined to get a 4Runner. The bigger engine is not worth what you will have to pay in appearance. The current model (especially the Limited) is awesome looking.

tbcreative

Jim, I'm curious how you came to the conclusion that the new 4Runner is ugly, when we haven't even seen a good picture of it yet. What are you basing it on, the spy shots or the GX 470? I hope it's not because of the pictures of the current Prado, because that's no indication of the '03 4Runner.

The reason I ask why you've made such a hasty judgment, is because all the inside information I've heard from the 3 sources who've actually seen it say it keeps the elements of the current Runner's design with and updated look; that there's no mistaking that it's a 4Runner. I'm waiting until I actually see one before I make any kind of judgment. From the spy shots, I think it looks like it might be great, and I LOVE the current design, especially the Sport Edition. Just curious...

bigorange30

The pictures of the black or dark colored vehicle you and others before have posted. I do like the GX470 but its more than I could afford.

kjack100

I ran across. Thought 4Runner fanatics might be interested in.

http://www.top4runners.com/ja/runhist3.html

tbcreative

Jim, I'm a little confused at how you can make a judgment on the design of a vehicle that's covered in black-out materials. The basic shape resembles the GX, which you like, and the rest is indistinguishable at this point. It's really no big deal, but I'm just wondering if I'm missing something... It's like saying someone you just met is ugly, even though they're wearing a full mask and costume, but their fraternal twin sister, who isn't wearing a costume, is attractive.

peter78

I was going through the specs on the new Honda Pilot and noticed the information on towing. Honda requires a power steering and transmission cooler. I have never heard of a power steering cooler, have you? If we tow on our 4Runners is a transmission cooler required? Is it recommended? As far as the Pilot, I won't even go into the difference of 1,000 pounds between boat trailering and normal trailering.

http://pilot.honda.com/specs.asp?lstSpecs=ALL

cliffy1

The Runners all come standard with a transmission cooler. They have real frames as well.

bigorange30

It doesn't look like the GX at all to me. The Land Cruiser looks alot like the GX470. The 4Runner looks longer and just down right ugly, IMO. Just look at the doors. They each look longer than on the GX and so do the rear quarter panels. Its more squared off in the back and the tailights are higher than the GX. The limited fender flares and running boards are not there either. When they add those, maybe it will look better.

g_husky

Anyone know when Toyota plans to do the press launch? Given the production schedule I see (V8 starts August, V6 starts November) I would think it would be coming up soon.

tbcreative

Jim, I see what you mean about the one spy shot, but I think it's a weird angle, has deceptive black-out, and is a crappy quality photo. The other spy shot from this month's Truckin' looks a lot like the GX, I think, but again it's hard to tell with all the black-out. Truckin' mistakenly called it the Prado, but a couple of inside sources confirmed that both spy photos are the new 4Runner. I've been able to blow the 2 shots up in PhotoShop and increase the detail, and they're the same vehicle, sharing the same grill, "B" pillar, and a few other elements. I'm telling you, the spy shot from last month is just a really bad angle making it look longer and funkier than it should. The newer photo is a better indication. Don't forget, since this platform is shared, they aren't going to make special "longer" doors for the 4Runner. Most likely they'll share the same doors with different cladding, or slightly different molded sheetmetal, but the same dimensions. Additionally, all the dimensions will be the same as the GX, just in different sheetmetal, so again, you may not believe me, but that one spy shot is just a bad angle.

One inside source has told me the new design will have almost identical cladding/fender flares as the current Runner, which is good news to me as well. I love the bold look of the 4Runner, and from what I gather, the '03 will retain that quality. If it doesn't, I'm back to the drawing board for what my next SUV will be...

tbcreative

Another update I thought you might want to hear straight from the Horse's Mouth:

1)Yes, the 4Runner with have the conventional liftgate with power rear window.

2)Yes, a navigation system will be offered as an option.

vicarouza

...for offering the most important option I'm looking for (that Excellent Denso DVD Navigation system!)...tbcreative, you're the 3rd or 4th person to confirm this!!!.....however, I'm really hoping the 4 Runner DOES NOT get much larger than the current version (I SIMPLY HATE LARGE VEHICLES)....in fact, I'm hoping it will be A BIT shorter than the GX 470 and an inch or two narrower than the GX (around 72 inches width would be ideal - GX is 74inches) for better manuverability in city driving as well as on the trails.......really don't need those dam* seven seats people keep hyping to death.....too excited, keep counting the days to see the real thing!!!!

gkexec

First thanks tbcreative for the posting on the liftgate window. This is a must for my wife and our dog. And it is a nice convenience. The only other SUV I can find that has one is the Landrover Freelander, and that is just not a comparable vehicle. Is anyone aware of a vehicle I am missing with a power liftgate window? Also, the deals on 2002 4 runners are unbelievable. I am finding prices at 88% of MSRP, that is a 12% discount. Toyota must be underwriting this for the dealers. Assuming the 2003 will go for close to sticker for some period of time, unless one doesn't like the 2002 or is hell bent for some other features, I and others are going to enjoy savings on the 2002 that you rarely find for any Toyota. I am about to buy in the next few days, so if anyone has any advice, I would love to hear it.

dchyorny

Is it me or does the Spy picture looks a lot like the Expedition. I see many similar bends in the body. I own a 2001 and love it!