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Comments
Note: I picked Australia because it was in English. Also the site, msn.com, said of the Prado and I quote "An all new generation mid sized four wheel drive wagon has been released by Toyota. The Prado is a totally separate development and is not based on other Land Cruiser or Four Runner models." I wonder if that may well be the new 4Runner here in the States?
http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/nci/NCIGallery.asp?ID=19960704%2E14%3A46%3A39
Note: The Australian site said the new Prado has a 3.4 liter, instead of last years 3.0 liter. I guess Australia uses smaller engines than the U.S. Also, if you click on "Toyota Landcrusier Prado GXL V6 Detail Page" at the top of the pictures you will get to the write up of the all new Prado.
Here's a link to some pictures of the 3 new vehicles for the 2003 platform:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?A18A24CF
In addition to the GX 470 and spy shots of the new 4Runner, there's an illustration of what the new Prado will look like. The other pictures are of Icelandic conversions of the current Landcruiser Prado.
If you want to see all three spy pics of the '03 4Runner, here's a link where I posted those as well:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?R26012701
Thanks
There are specific model codes for each 4Runner based on model and motor, and trim level. The one thread that is commmon here is that the V8 versions are all 5-speed automatic, and the V6'es are all 4-speed automatics.
There are still three trim levels (SR5, SR5 Sport, and Limited) and they are all available in either V6 or V8. and in 2WD or 4WD versions.
It will depend on how each and every region orders their cars, model wise, as to what regions will bring in what models. I am certain that Southern California will bring in strictly V8 models in 2WD and 4WD at first. That may not be true of other areas, like areas that folks require 4WD and prefer the V6 and less torque... or better fuel economy! I guess I am trying to say to not expect one of every single model in every single region at first.
Bob
Happy 4th of July!!!
I spent several weeks reading this forum from start to finish. I was really torn between the 4runner and the pathfinder, or waiting until the 2003 4runner came out. I believe I made a great decision with the 2002 4runner. My thoughts:
1. I love the style of the 96-2002 4runner. I really hate how all of the car makers have over the years melded their products to all look alike. The 4runner, in its current version, is a very distinct style and its a good looking vehicle. I am glad my truck does not look like the montero....
2. There is something to be said for buying a car before a new version comes out. First, I got a very good price (29K) for a 4 runner sport that is loaded. 2nd, its been refined - the bugs have been worked out of it. This is a solid vehicle!!!
3. Ok, so it could use some more power. But with that power comes a trade off like lower MPG or having to use a higher octane that is more expensive. I use 87 unleaded and am getting 21 mpg!!!
4. This is my first truck as I have always drove sedans. I am still getting used to the truck like drive, but I feel VERY safe in this vehicle. We had a torrential downpour a few weeks ago and she drove like a dream.
5. The 4 runner resale is incredible. I saw an ad in the paper the other day for a 88 4runner (are they that old?), 216K for 4.5K. Thats incredible.
6. I bought the truck on a saturday and had to bring it back on Monday to get the car tagged, tittled, and all of that. I stopped at the gas station to get a $1 worth of gas (they were gonna fill it up) and this guy walks by my truck, stops, shakes his head, and says "thats an incredible vehicle you got there." That sealed it for me.
Thanks for everyones posting on this forum - I expect to be around for some time asking stupid questions...
Happy 4th!
Rick
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You said: "3. Ok, so it could use some more power. But with that power comes a trade off like lower MPG or having to use a higher octane that is more expensive. I use 87 unleaded and am getting 21 mpg!!!"
That may have been accurate a few years ago, but is no longer true by today's standards. Yes, there are some SUVs out there, like the Supercharged Xterra, that require high octane, but there are quite a few engines that have much more power than the current 4Runner, that don't require high octane or sacrifice fuel economy. The Vortec V6 in my Jimmy 4x4 has about 205 hp with a K&N filter and 255 lbs/ft of torque, and I'm getting about 18 mpg around town and 22 mpg on the highway, using 87 octane. The new Vortec In-Line 6 used in the Trailblazer/Envoy/Bravada/Rainier puts out 270 hp and 275 lbs/ft, and gets the same mileage or better than my truck. The new 245 hp, 283 lbs/ft V6 for the next gen. 4Runner is supposed to have the same kind of EPA numbers, while also being a Low Emissions Vehicle. Now the new V8, rated at 235 hp and 320 lbs/ft may be another story, but we all know about the V8 vs. V6/I-L6 efficiency debate.
I'm not pointing this out to try to make you feel bad for your decision, because as I've stated here before, the current 4Runner is a great truck, in spite of it's short-comings. I'm just adding another perspective to effectively help others who may be in the same quandary.
I'm anxiously awaiting the new 4Runner, but who knows...I may be taking a big risk. It may not be everything I'm hoping for, or it may have the same bland front-end styling as the Sequoia, and therefore loose it's tough-looking, unique appeal. According to several Toyota insiders, there's no mistaking the new design for a 4Runner, but I'll believe it when I see it myself.
I'm not in desperate need of a new truck, and I still like my GMC a lot, but I'm hoping the '03 4Runner lives up to or surpasses my hopes for a near-perfect SUV.
I got a fantastic deal on the vehicle at that time, and after owning and driving it for 7+ years w/over 250,000 mi. on the odo I have absolutely no regrets whatsoever. It's never given me a "reason" to get rid of it, as the reliability has been flawless. Just like the 2002, Toyota had quite a number of years to tweak on these vehicles, and refined them during the production period.
I too am excited to see and drive the 2003, and with my past experience with 4Runner will bet the vehicle will be a great one...that is, if it doesn't develop a bad case of the Monterro Uglies! But that said, this IS a first year production model even if it is a Toyota, prices will be high, and you can bet that good deals will be a rarity. If your needs are not in the power category for towing, etc. then I still say the 2002 is the best thing going.
I also looked at the bravada - nice vehicle - lots of power. I just did not know the future of olds...
My wife drives a 99 camry - 55K - and we need to bring it to the dealer - the brake light comes on when driving around corners. THATS THE ONLY REPAIR WE HAVE HAD TO MAKE TO THE CAR!!!!! I just replaced the tires - but have done ZERO other work on the vehicle. How does Toyota do it?
Rick
But I just love the 2002 style especially with the sport. I am one of the few people that think Toyota screwed up when they redesigned the camry's and the avalons (in 99) - the backend is so UGLY!!!!
I just passed the 2,100 mile mark on my 4runner - so i am gonna call the dealer for that first FREE oil change.
My 9 year old thinks she is the coolest kid in the neighborhood now with us being in the sport!
You all have a great weekend.
Rick
Its very strange. The light comes on the first time I use the brakes - then it goes off - and it comes back on when I go around a curve...I have noticed that the brakes are still very firm so I do not believe its a true brake problem...
Rick
Rick
Any word, scuttlebutt, rumors, or guesses about how the 4WD system on the Runner may differ (or stay the same) for 2003? Can we look to other Toyota model releases for clues?
This dilemma has been rehashed before, so I'll just mention it without elaboration:
Our family is growing as are our forays into Northern California where we live. Our '98 Jetta is starting to nickel and dime us as it gets closer to 70k miles, plus, it doesn't seem so spacious anymore for long trips. The 4Runner also appears to be a safer ride now that there is our five-month old in the back seat.
What we like best about the 4Runner is the versatility of the 4WD system. It does rain alot in the Bay Area, so the VSC and Traction Control are definite plusses for safety. Unlike many other midsize SUVs, the full-time (4WD High) mode seems to proactively work to keep the vehicle from losing traction rather simply reacting to a skid and then transfering power to to front or rear (re: Pathfinder). Mountain trips to Tahoe in the winter also seem to be more do-able in the 4Runner. This kind of 4WD/AWD versatility is, for us, one of subtle, but important selling points when it comes to the 4Runner vs. the competition.
So, aside from the lack of third row seating, a possible available V8, cosmetic changes, and the usual other differences, can we expect to see anything else when it comes to the new 4Runner's drive system? Meanwhile, every time we wonder what that new rattle is in the Jetta, we ask ourselves if we should abandon ship and hoist the sail of a new 'Runner.
muskadine
many thnaks - let me know if you ever in Richmond - I'll buy you lunch!
Rick
Glad I could help.
1) The GX 470 will share the 4.7-liter V8 engine and full-time four-wheel drive system from the larger LX 470 model. The full complement of dynamic handling technology includes anti-lock brakes (ABS), Active TRAC (traction control), Brake Assist, Vehicle Skid Control (VSC), and Electronic Brake Force Distribution (EBD). A new Downhill Assist Control (DAC) system will provide additional control for off-road driving on steep descents. Passive safety features include dual front and side airbag supplemental restraint systems and side curtain airbags.
2) The GX 470 is equipped with a true full-time four-wheel drive system with a center differential that splits the power 50/50 front/rear. The system is always engaged and requires no intervention by the driver for on-road use. The five-speed automatic transmission includes a low range to allow the GX 470 to negotiate steep off-road inclines, and the driver can engage the locking center differential to traverse demanding on- or off-road conditions. Active TRAC (traction control) provides the traction benefit of a locking rear differential, but with less weight.
3) Independent front suspension, rear air suspension with self-leveling and standard Adaptive Variable Suspension damping (AVS) will endow the GX 470 with the kind of on-road smoothness expected of an SUV wearing the Lexus badge. The proven AVS system enhances ride quality by continuously changing each wheel's shock absorber damping rate in response to road surface conditions, vehicle speed, driver steering and braking inputs, and even vertical vehicle movement. The Adaptive Height Control provides flexibility for the GX 470's many uses. A high setting gives extra clearance when traversing challenging terrain, but lowers the vehicle for easy entry and exit, while the standard 265/65-17 tires mounted on 17-inch alloy wheels provide a good balance between quiet ride, responsive on-road handling and off-road capability.
4) Along with its innovative passive safety features, the Lexus GX 470 provides the driver with an array of dynamic handling technology to help ensure safety under varying road conditions. The standard Vehicle Skid Control (VSC) system helps control lateral traction while cornering on slippery or dry road surfaces. The system uses throttle intervention and/or individual wheel braking to help control any discrepancy between where the driver is steering and where the vehicle is heading. The Brake Assist (BA) system can help the driver boost braking power in panic stops. Brake Assist is designed to determine if the driver is attempting emergency braking and, if the driver has not stepped hard enough on the brake pedal to engage the anti-lock brake system (ABS), the system supplements the applied braking power. Electronic Brake Force Distribution (EBD) utilizes the ABS and distributes proper brake force between the front and rear wheels according to driving conditions.
For a complete article on the GX 470, check out http://www.suv.com.
Hope that helps, Muskadine!
Scroll down to see when it's due to hit the dealerships! It looks like we may have to wait a little longer than some rumors projected. Let's hope it's worth the wait... ;o)
"The following list is our best estimation of when reports will be released.
Due to the nature of manufacturer information distribution, it must be preliminary and
will be revised as more information is received. We have listed specific dates
within the next two weeks when it is highly probable that a report will be released.
FYI - We cannot release reports until after the manufacturer embargo date has passed."
Any inside pics you can show us????
The 2002s already have cash back or special APRs, so it's gonna be a tough call if my wife and I are in the market for a 4Runner right around the time the new ones come out and there are still some 2002s on the lot but for a lot less. How big will the incentives get for the 2002s before they're all gone? Cause I'm sure the 2003s will be going for MSRP for quite a while.
According to preliminary info, the new 2003 series is going to have some extra safety features (side airbags), more sophisticated 4WD/Active Trac system, a more streamlined exterior, among other goodies. Fantastic. But to me the current version, despite (or because of) it being a bit long in the tooth, is the best SUV on the road.
But here is my personalized laundry list of likes to make me look at the new 2003 and never look back. This is stuff that I think that would further push the 4Runner ahead of the competition:
1. Some may quibble at this, but I think that an optional third row seat (a la Explorer) will big a huge versatility boost. Even if it's just to drive to the movie theatre, that extra passenger space can be a life saver to guys like me who, though an only child, married into a huge Mexican family but who don't stand or can't afford a Sequoia, Expedition, or minivan. Will a third row seat be offered in the future? Ford claims they did it with the Explorer by redesigning the rear suspension. Any word whether or not this be in the cards?
2. Side airbags for front and rear.
3. KEEP the terrific 4WD system w/ Active Trac and the funky rear window.
4. Widen the 4Runner just a bit so that rear shoulder room and cargo room is expanded. That middle seat in the rear is, uh, a bit too cozy.
5. KEEP the overall tidy dimensions compared to other supposedly midsize SUV behemoths. The dimensions of the current series can be expanded a bit, but what I like about the Runner is that it's still drivable in small spaces--both on the trail or at the mall.
muskadine
And although, the only thing missing will be the 3rd row seat, I suspect it will only be absent at it's introduction. Because Toyota/Lexus made the Landcruiser-style 3rd seats work in the GX, they will most likely find their way into the 4Runner, maybe by next spring. It's possible the insiders sharing their information don't have the full story, and Toyota will offer the 3rd seats, but only on the Limited at it's introduction. Either way, I expect consumer demand will sway Toyota to add them eventually, if they're not available at first.
As far as changing to the RIS to accommodate a hide-away 3rd row seat, I certainly hope they don't and I don't think they will, unless they really want to upset the 4Runner loyalists. This would reduce it's towing capacity and flex distance for off-roading, unless they really jacked the price up to allow for the expensive parts necessary for matched performance. But I do wish the new 'Runner had the versatility of the Durango, with it's spacious 2nd row seats and decent 3rd row seats that fold away, while being able to maintain the 4Runner's class-leading off-road prowess. I don't care for the blind spot-causing fold-up Landcruiser-style seats, but I don' want to give up towing capacity and rear wheel flex.
At least one thing will please most 4Runner lovers. According to insiders, the rear door will be different from the GX, in that it will be a liftgate with a power window, keeping with the current design.
And according to the GX's dimensions, it sounds like the new 4Runner will be just right, giving us more necessary room, without turning into a hulk that's not suited for enjoyable driving or tight off-road situations.
I haven't heard when we'll see photos yet, but I'm checking almost every day with several sources, because I can't wait either!
Bt the way, are the new 4Runner and the new Tacoma replacement expected to come on the market at the same time? I've heard that the next generation of these two vehicles will continue to share a number of structural and design elements. Which is going to be the chicken and which is going to be the egg--the 4Runner or the Tacoma?
Here's one by HorsesMouth: "I thought you might want to hear this straight from the Horse's Mouth. As an insider, I'm not going to divulge too much information, especially with 2002 4Runners still sitting on dealer lots ready to be sold, and I'd hate to jeopardize company sales figures, by letting too much slip out and have people wait to buy a 4Runner, but...
1) Yes, the 4Runner will have both optional V6 and V8 engines. Interestingly, the V6 will have slightly more horsepower than the V8. (The V8 or course will have more torque).
2) Third row seat will not be available. After much debate back and forth, this option is sitting out. Why you ask? Because of the design, much desired completely folding flat third-row seats cannot be put into the vehicle. The Lexus GX470 will, however, have the third row folding seats similar to the Land Cruiser (come on, we had to differentiate them somehow!).
3) Limited price will be slightly increased over current 4Runner (nothing drastic, but this SUV is stepping up its brand positioning), while other model packages will decrease slightly.
4) The optional JBL audio system is going to be a real class leader in this SUV segment. Also, expect a video entertainment system (with wireless headsets) from the GX470 to filter into the 4Runner.
5) Finally, the spy pictures and new Toyota Prado illustration are a good idea on the look of the vehicle. Picture different headlights (similar to Sequoia), different taillights, and more body cladding on the sides (SR5)."
Now the things I didn’t like. It has huge inside door handles; therefore, hard to reach the window buttons. Windows are small on the large doors. Front windshield is in very sharp angle hard to get inside, I had to fold myself to get inside. Steering wheel has buttons on the left side and on the right side a piece of plastic to make it symmetrical, ugly. Still not enough headroom for tall guys like me. So because it has small windows it is limited in outside view for passengers."
I'm most excited about the Sport Edition! It sounds like it will be set up almost exactly like how I would order one, with the exception of the silver roof-rack. Hope all that info helps and doesn't get you too excited! ;o)
With the market being inundated with SUVs having 3rd row seats, and the Honda Pilot being a real contender for those not concerned with off-roading, Toyota may really be behind the game here. That and the fact that their 2 engine offerings are not going to set any new standards, and barely match the current competition.
I was really hoping Toyota would set the bar a lot higher with the release of this new platform, and I think in many ways it will, but the 3rd seat and engine choice issues may hinder sales a bit. I just hope that the reason behind some of these decisions are a result of the other information I've heard from insiders, that Toyota is planning on offering more package choices, creating a lower base price, allowing the SR5 price to DROP slightly, while the Limited goes up ever so slightly in price. It's part of their new pricing plan, like the Camry and Corolla.
How many days until September? I'm tired of waiting for answers... ;o)
The market is clearly changing, and I think Toyota missed the boat here.
Bob
>"It is different. Completely different. It has
>totally redesigned body as well as the engine.
>It is larger in size...
tbcreative, I think that I will have to take exception with some of this statement. As I have said before, the outside is changed, but not dramatically. The video I saw in February showed design features similar to that of the Sequoia in the front, but if you saw this thing coming down the road there is no way that you would mistake it for anything but a 4Runner.
It will be slightly larger, but not large enough to compete with the Sequoia. Like you, I would have liked to have had the 3rd seat, but it's not a show stopper for me.
The inside is a dramatic improvement over the previous versions. I'm sure everyone will like it.
My take on the whole redesign is that they tried to keep as much of the outside as possible while making it a little wider and improving the creature comforts inside. I think that they want to keep it a "real" truck, and not a watered down version of one, like the Highlander.
I tried to get some more information today but I was told it is "very difficult" for us to get information on 4Runners (although they didn't say why.) I'll have to wait like the rest of you, but I won't be buying until January anyway, so no hurry.
I certainly appreciate your enthusiam, though.
:-)
Personally, I will be buying a 4Runner with or without the third row seat. But I suspect that many other buyers will be forced to put some serious consideration into other competing models (not made by Toyota or Lexus). The availability of choices of other vehicles in the 4Runner's midsize SUV class that do offer the third-row seat feature are increasing each year.
Is the third row seat an essential feature for the 4Runner? No. Certainly not for me. But for a significant number of buyers, this may be a crippling oversight on the part of Toyota, especially if the seat can be put in without sacrificing performance.
beagles3: If you're in the market for a limited, you do have a tough choice ahead of you. If the 2003 Limited's price does go up, and if demand is high, you'll be guaranteed of paying at or above the higher MSRP. But then again, there's the downside of getting the 2002 and seeing the 2003s, then 2004s, and so on. Will you notice that extra money missing down the road when you've sprung for the newer version, particularly if resale is higher and your self-doubt is next to zero? Of course, $35k is a bargain for the current model. Tough call.
Actually, in Ford's case—both with the Explorer and Expedition, the ground clearance increased over the older solid axle versions, considerably. The rear differential is now mounted to the frame, which is higher up than before.
People are more concerned about the lack of articulation than ground clearance of IRS-equipped vehicles. This is only an issue if you are doing *severe* off-roading, such as rock crawling.
Bob