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Toyota 4Runner

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  • sbell4sbell4 Posts: 446
    The southeast region has some 800 2003 4Runners allocated and 400 are sitting at the port. It was first believed every dealer was going to get one and then more to trickle in over the next couple of months but it appears that larger volume dealers will be getting 10 - 20 4Runners wholesaled on the 15th of October.

    V8 SR5 = 55%
    V8 SR5 SPORT = 15%
    V8 LIMITED = 10%
    V8 SR5 4X4 = 5%
    V8 SR5 SPORT 4X4 = 5%
    V8 LIMITED 4X4 = 10%
  • On my way to work today I saw a tractor trailer full of new 4 runners. They looked to all be Limited. Thought everyone would like to know. Check your dealers!
  • Can we agree that the 3rd Gen V6 will do the job for the size, purpose, function of the vehicle in most situtations (again back in 1999 they were hyping the 183+ HP of the 2000 model as a big PLUS ober the 170+ HP Pathfinder, etc.), but that there are many of us who "need" (i.e., want) more HP because of our particular preferences, driving habits, lead feet, etc.? I am in the latter group and waited all these years because of it - but of course having problems with the new and "improved" look.

    ptrsn, I have been trying to figure out the supercharger as my way out of this. Tell me more about your experience. So far, I have the premium fuel factor listed as a negative (but sounds like the new V6 will require it as well). I am familiar with the level10.com site and went through it a while back. Seems to be focused on those really into high-performance and racing - I am hoping that level of engine mods would not be necessary to incorporate the TRD supercharger into a 3rd Gen simply for those desiring the extra HP. At this point, I see inconsistency between what trdusa.com and level10.com "claim" needs to be done and am trying to seperate out the fact and fiction from those groups' self-interests. Did you do any additonal mods to your 2000? Or, did you just add it to the stock engine and go from there? How many miles on that supercharged Runner of yours and any problems/maintenance? Thanks!
  • I am NOT saying that the people who want more power is wrong! I would love for my 4Runner to have 300 HPs and 400 Torque...who wouldn't? I am just saying that the current 3rd gen 4Runner is not "gutless"! It's performance is right up there with the best of the best SUVs!

    I agree that towing is not 4Runner's strong point. But, for most of us (including me), the most i will ever tow is a jetski. If you want to tow something heavier, then none of the Toyota products are particularly good at it either. For me, I am more into off-roading and sight-seeing (Grand Canyon, Big Bend, etc.). This is where the 4Runner literally outshines everything else in it's class (reliable, great off-roading talents, built like a tank, etc.).
  • ptrsnptrsn SoutheastPosts: 7
    I traded a '96 4Runner SR5 4WD 5 Speed standard trans. for the 2000 SR5 4WD Auto (after having been a stick shift buff for the past 17 years or so I decided to just sit back and cruise with the automatic) and thinking that the automatic is not as responsive as the 5 Speed, I opted to find something to compensate. I had quite a few talks with TRD and decided to give this, specially designed for the 4Runner, supercharger a go.
    Yes, mjohn99 you're right, premium gas does cost a bit more but I, for one, never used just Regular in any of my vehicles; it was either Plus or Premium anyway so for me that's not a bad point. I ordered the 4Runner from Clearwater Toyota in Florida and did not have the supercharger shipped from TRD until the truck arrived. I drove it around town for the first 1500 miles or so before having the unit installed; you can really tell the difference. The only other item I installed was a transmission cooler (at TRD's suggestion), all else is stock. I now have 48,650 and have not had a single problem either with the 4Runner or the supercharger. I opted to have the dealer install both supercharger and trannie cooler as I get a 5 yr or 50k warranty from them as opposed to only a 1 yr if you do it yourself. Cost is roughly about $300.00 for Toyota to do the work. I just had the truck in for it's 30k service (a little late) and had them replace the supercharger serpentine belt (cost: $ 19.00 and labor $66.00) although the service dept. said I didn't need to worry the belt would last forever. At $80.00 invested in a new belt versus having the old one snap and having to order a new one (not a Toyota stocking part) and wait about a week for it, I opted for the replacement.
    I live in Central Florida and commute to work in Savannah so most of my cruising is on the I-95 corridor. Normal cruising traffic speed on I-95 is in the 75 to 80 mph. This is effortless as I'm only doing 2500 rpm @ 80 mph. What's a kick is dropping out of overdrive and punching it and 105 mph is there awfully quick. Not that I do this all the time but at least I know I still have plenty of power after 80. Gas mileage is 18 - 19 in town and 21.5-22 on the highway if I use cruise @ 78. The one thing some people might find annoying is that @ idle there is a slight kind of diesel sound (not clanking but more of a whirring sound) that come off the pulleys from the supercharger but you can't hear it inside only while standing in front of the vehicle. When I go to get a new vehicle (probably 2004 and probably another 4Runner) I will definitely do the supercharger again if it is available..
  • With the great analysis in previous posts that true minimum running ground clearance of the 3rd Gen is 9.8" (and not 11" per Toyota), and speculation that the 4th gen may be only 0.7' shy of that, I am curious if a 2003 can be had such that it is more akin to the 3rd Gen? [By the way, correction to my earlier post: a LOT of other SUVs received 3 star rollover ratings last year - maybe a good rationalization can result if this slight loss in clearance plus wider body results in 3 stars this year?!? The NHTSA page has a lot of good info. how things like VSC do not change what happens when a two-star gets up off the pavement, hits the soft stuff and ends up rolling (. . . of course VSC does a good job keeping you on the pavement in the first place!).]

    Question: seeing Cliffy's breakdowns for the CAT region, would it nevertheless be possible next year to "order" the monochromatic Limited (or near monochromatic silver SR5 with gray PAINTED cladding - that's a relief) withOUT the rear spoiler and roof rack? I have always bought off the lot and am not sure if/how that can be done.

    A lot of the posts on this board are helpful and thanks are in order. With the reviews plus rumors that base prices may be lower than anticipated, the fact that the V8 is only one MPG less than the new V6, the fact that the V8 is tried-and-true and is not first year out like the new aluminum V6, the fact that the DVD, air suspension, spoiler, and roof rack are all options, and Cliffy's suspicion that any less cargo space may only be due to newly-accurate measurements, a monochromatic V8 may be priced such that it is a better "value" than the loaded $31K 2002 supercharged SR5 I am looking at ($27.5K plus $3.5K charger). Of course, there's no way out of that headlight package . . .
  • That was a terrific post and very helpful. Most who have gone with the TRD charger seem to do nothing but off-road. Your positive review is helpful. It sounds like the 3rd gen computer took right to it, and as promised by the TRD folks, you really didn't have to do much else - just install and go. How much for and what type of transmission cooler? I really like the idea of getting the last of the rock-solid 3rd Gen and having a Toyota dealer up here install the charger - warranty terms are great! Gas mileage is great - some claim it even improves with the charger. I heard no real maintenance on the unit until around 90K. Florida, eh? Long drive - :> - I wish you had a Toy. mechanic up here in DC to recommend - I've read some bad stories about guys putting these things on wrong or not having installed enough such that when they get the part from TRD they don't have the expertise to tell that something is not as its supposed to be on the charger.
  • Any info on what the Western (California) region will be receiving when the new Runners ship?
  • Looks like there is a dealer in Dearborn, MI that has the '03s on the lot.
  • I'm guessing you got TRD's trans oil cooler . . . but did you go with their boost gauge as well? (just saw both on their web site.) If so, then you got the charger, cooler and gauge all installed for $3.5K back in 2000?
  • I am sure you know about this site, but there are a few things you need to know about superchargers (and possible complications):


    http://www.gadgetonline.com/Super.htm


    Also, remember, the 4th gen ground clearance is 9.1". I don't think this is the "MINIMUM" running ground clearance. Speculation. This maybe the maximum ground clearance. The Lexus GX470 (same frame/suspension as 4Runner) has a MINIMUM ground clearance of 8.3". I don't know why 4Runner would have a higher ground clearance than GX470.

  • yes, thanks, I have gone through that whole site and that is what has caused me concerns. Contrast that site to what TRD claims and try to seperate out the self-interests of the two respective parties/sites. That's why I need some 3rd party, relatively "unbiased" info like ptsrn's experience. Intmed, have you had some bad luck with a charger or just an FYI to the site?

    On the ground clearance, my goof. So as not to confuse new readers:

    3rd Gen Runner: Toyota listed "ground clearance" = 11"; true, measured "minimum running ground clearance" = ~ 9.8".

    4th gen Runner: Toyota listed "ground clearance" = 9.1"; true, measured "minimum running ground clearance" = ??? (probably ~ 8.3" as you surmise).
  • Well, initially, i had some interest in putting a supercharger into my 4Runner. However, after reading that site, i am very hesitant. As stated (repeatedly) above, i think the 4Runner power is decent. Also, from reading about Eaton S/Cs (which is same as TRD S/C), at low-RPMs and high-RPMs, supercharger tends to rob power, rather than give, UNlike turbochargers (which do not run of the engine power, but exhaust).


    I wrote a thread a while back on another forum regarding this issue (for a CRV; however, would apply to any SUV):


    http://www.gocrvclub.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70


    Just scroll down to my first post in the thread, (my name is "Thai").

  • Good discussion. I realize the effect of the charger on the power curve and lower RPM's, but at least this is one option open to consideration for those seeking more HP on the 3rd Gen. I too would prefer the HP from a redesigned engine of course - hence, my 3 year wait. Unfortunately, I am having trouble coming to grips with the new look - may be just my strange idiosynchroncies (sp?) - but things like that spoiler and even the new look of the roof rack (while more substantial now) is too carlike/minivan for me. As it's all relative, it makes the supercharger perhaps worth the risk. In any event, if Cliffy tells me I can kill the spoiler and put on my Thule's (yes, you can do so without using the manufacturer's roof rack), then my decision to wait until Oct. 15th has been "so far, so good" . . .
  • Cliffy,

    I remember a post a few months back saying something about the new 4Runner being able to transfer power to one wheel (like Grand Cherokee), instead of just side to side, as it currently does.

    Is this still the case for the 2003's? Any other updates you know about regarding the Traction Control and VSC?

    Thanks
  • glzr2glzr2 Posts: 70
    Is this a confirmed sighting or did you look at inventories online? What dealership? If it's there, I'll take I-94 and swing by after work to kick the tires. I should stop in at TTC in Ann Arbor to see if they have one.
  • ptrsnptrsn SoutheastPosts: 7
    Wow, just read all the pros and cons about the supercharger stuff. I just looked into gadgetonline.com sent by intmed99 and I don't know what to tell ya. Yes I guess most problems occur from bad installations; when I had mine installed in Clearwater, Fl. the dealer had told me that they had installed a couple, which to me was 2 or 3 more than none, and if it had screwed anything up then they would have been liable but in any event that is all speculation as not one thing has gone wrong.
    To answer your question mjohnr99, I bought the charger, TRD's transmission cooler (I think it was about $150.00 or so, a little priceyer (sp?) than most), I did not get the boost gauge but plan on getting it soon, not that you need one but it's just another gadget to have. I believe it costs about $100.00 and all this stuff has to be obtained from a Toyota dealer as I don't believe TRD sells to the public. If you have more than one Toyota dealership in the area it would pay to shop around. Clearwater is right next to Tampa and there are about four dealerships in the area. All of them gave me different prices and labor charges. I didn't go with the cheapest offer. When I purchased my charger (March of 2000) it sold for about $2895.00 from TRD then the Dealer marked it up to about $3150.00 and then charged about 300.00 to install it. The Trans. cooler cost me about $50.00 to have it installed so I guess the grand total was more like close to $3700.00 give or take a buck or so. And that would not include to cost and installation on the boost gauge.
    And, you know, I was just looking at the specs on the Gen 4 and based on horsepower I still think the aluminum V6 with a charger (I'm sure TRD will come to the rescue soon) would be the way to go. TRD claims about a 45% increase in horsepower so that would be: new V6= about 235 h.p. + about 45% = 106 h.p. that would equal about 341 h.p. !! That would be killer, especially with the lighter V6 (I wonder if it is a Japanese V6?) as opposed to the heavier V8 ( I heard that it is a Chevy V8, does anyone know?).
    A guy I work with has a late model 5 liter Mustang and installed a Paxton charger which was installed inline with the air intake and looks pretty shabby. The TRD on the other hand replaces the intake manifold and looks clean plus I believe I get a larger % of horsepower than he does.
  • - all good information, I'm right with ptrsn on all of that posting: "the 2 or 3 more than none" experience with the dealers, the pricing, the good looks of the charger when installed, as well as the preference for the new 2003 engine(s). I think I come down where you are on this topic and that we can safely put this one to bed until the 15th. Appreciate the advice, both.
  • I think the Edmund's embargo is on, so I can't post the link, but for anyone following the major boards on the 4Runner (you should know the ones . . .), there are more shots of the new Runner at a dealer!!! This is no promotion of that site (I'd like to name it, but already in trouble with Edmund's for that terrible "masked profanity" . . .) and only intended as useful information for additional discussion here. Have you guys not seen these? These are the best shots yet. (Hint: there are 72 of them!)

    The bad news (at least for these photographed here): the ugly plastic cladding and fender flares are still there on the SR5/Sports! And the Limited is not monochromatic unless that gray on the roofrack and bumpers is a protective coating that peels off . . . sheesh.
  • The 4th gen 4.0L V6 engine is all-aluminum with a relatively high compression ratio (i think). Usually, most people prefer an iron-block when supercharging their engine. Secondly, a high compression ratio is difficult to supercharge i believe (not sure on this one).

    Based on the Hp/Torque ratings, the 4th gen should have plenty of power...i don't think a supercharger is needed, unless you want to race a F150 Lightning.
  • The 4th gen should have the same ATRAC (active traction control) as the 3rd generation. ATRAC does allow for ONE-wheel traction...any wheel. This system is in 2001+ 4Runners, Land Cruisers, and LX470. Of course, GX470 will also have it.
  • My understanding was that it currently does allow for one wheel traction, but not in the same way as the Ford Expedition, Jeep Cherokee, & Hummer H2, do (there may be more than these 3 vehicles, this is all I know as of right now).

    The system does have one wheel in the sense that it basically works like electronic limited slips, transferring power from left to right, & right to left. The other systems transfer not only from left to right & right to left, but also front to back, & back to front, and some can transfer most, if not all of available torque to one wheel.
  • With a center differential lock, you have 50/50% split front and rear. Therefore, you don't need any shifting of power front-rear. The 4th gen will have the same.

    Jeep Grand Cherokee has a center diff lock too.

    H2 has a center diff lock too.

    So, basically, these systems are similar to the 4Runners (3rd and 4th gen).

    Only the H2 has a locker rear differential IN ADDITION to the traction control systems.

    Grand Cherokee, of course, uses limited-slip differential-like on the front and rear axles and center differential.
  • I remember months ago when someone posted the possibility of the new Runner having all these Chrome accents and most of the board went bananas. Well, I see some interesting, confirming facts in this new round of spy shots - only difference is they are silver, not chrome. Apparently, the spy shots that Corey first posted (and then were banned by Toyota) hid this as all those 4Runners on that cliff were in silver and the one that was not (i.e., the one on the trail) was an SR5 (whose accents are at least black). I guess silver may be the only way to get monochromatic.

    What I saw:

    SR5: gray bumpers, cladding and fender flares; black roof rack, door handles, mirrors . . . not sure about grill, "piece" on rear where key inserts, or running boards.

    Sport: gray bumpers, cladding and fender flares; color-keyed mirrors; silver roof rack, door handles, grill, and "piece" on rear where key inserts . . . not sure about running boards.

    Limited: color-keyed bumpers, cladding, fender flares, door handles, "piece" on rear where key inserts, and grill; silver roof rack, running boards, and bumper "stripes."

    What is going on? Just when I was getting optomistic, I get hit with all these silver accents?? The sport is almost too much to take with silver and plastic everywhere. Even if Cliffy is right and this will be a two-tone paint job in the CAT region, there is way too much going on here. And sorry to anyone who wanted a Black Limited . . . along with it, they may get silver roof racks, running boards, and bumper stripes that may be STANDARD. I can't imagine this! [Would love to be wrong here . . .]

    By the way, these photos seem to confirm everything we're reading in the 33-page, 7/17/02 University of Toyota guide to the new 4Runner . . .
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,724
    has a full spread on the new 4Runner. I just got mine in the mail.

    Bob
  • Man, this board is dead - amazing we're still in the Top 10. Not even a Cliffy or two around with all the outstanding issues.

    Will pick up that Autoweek. Anyone read this recent interview on 3rd row seats, etc.: http://makeashorterlink.com/?L53B21CE1
  • There is a post a little ways back that gives links to pictures of the trash tray in the new Runner. If you go to the pictures and then erase part of the url there is a listing of all the extra pics. Many of these are of 03 4Runners on the lot of a dealer in Dearborn, MI. In one of the pics you could see the sign on the door and the name of the dealer. I looked them up online and it was one in Dearborn. I won't say the name but from the pics they had a few.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,925
    You can say the dealer's name in Dearborn (unless you're hording it for yourself), but the trash tray link got pulled for another couple of weeks :-(

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

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    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • peter78peter78 Posts: 284
    The trash tray link was mine, I thought it was a clever idea. Also I noticed in the last batch of pictures their was a mirror in the back of the inside of the car, I guess to see all of the kids. The inside of the 4Runner is definitely a improvement and will be one of its nicest feature.

    As far as some of the changes, I find it funny people are saying how can that be or maybe Toyota measured wrong. But the facts show the cargo room is down in both with seat up or down. The clearance is down almost 2". The engines now use premium fuel. Towing is still 5,000 pounds except Toyota recommends a engine oil and transmission oil cooler. Standard equipment such as Day Time Running Lights and Power Heated Mirrors are now optional on the SR5. The plastic cladding seems to be in use for the SR5 and Sport.

    Given those facts Toyota will sell a ton of them. OK, the 4Runner now has 2" less clearance. I wonder how many people are going to buy a 35,000 car to go off road. Still what attracted me to the 4Runner, 44.5 cubic feet of cargo space, regular fuel, 11 inches of clearance, has now changed. It is simply going for a different set of buyers. At least towing is still the same and hopefully Toyota reliability.
  • I guess you haven't gone back and read all of the posts in the last 2 days, but it's been pointed out that Toyota wasn't using a true running ground clearance number, that the 3rd gen is actually 9.8", not 11". So that's only a difference of 0.7" for the new 'Runner. Now with bigger dimensions, like 5" more in length and wheelbase, that doesn't help the break-over angle any, but it's not as bad as it appears in Toyota's misleading number for the last generation.

    We've also discussed the theory that Toyota was misleading in their cargo figures for the previous generation, and are now complying with standard measurements, so some of us are ready to get out our tape measures and compare in reality. In the pictures, though, it seems to be a bit shorter, but, of course, a bit wider.

    And those mirrors in the back "D" pillar are called "back-up mirrors." They're supposed to help when backing out of a parking place, like at a mall or grocery store, enabling the driver to see vehicles coming toward him from the driver's side in his blind spot. If you were able to download the Powerpoint file, it's in there with a diagram. I didn't notice a picture of them though. Where did you see that?

    As far as the options, I think that's one of the things Toyota is doing to keep the base price down, and offer affordable packages to add.
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