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Jeep Wrangler

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  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591
    Glad the tests are OK, or at least we can assume the results are OK.

    Hope Lucy continues to recover well from the surgery.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • kelleyokelleyo Posts: 182
    This is a pretty comprehensive guide to 4.0 power mods. From throttle bodies to stoker kits to turbo and superchargers this covers it well. It is not a competing page to this one...

    http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Lane/4886/jeepeng.html
  • I was checking out the site and pricing wranglers. The prices quoted are thousands below anything i can touch here in dallas/fort worth for a new wrangler. They claim they can have it delivered to a local dealer for $300. If anyone has any information or experiences with this company any information is appreciated.
  • mac24mac24 Posts: 3,910
    I've heard a lot of good and nothing bad about them. I suggest that you do a little searching to confirm it for yourself. Lots of people use a quote from them to bring their local dealer to their senses. I'd happily purchase from them if my local dealer started getting silly.
  • Hey, getting an oil change tomorrow. Any types of oil is recommended, or just to put in what the manual says to put in. Thanks
  • mac24mac24 Posts: 3,910
    The 4.0 is a very understressed engine and commonly runs to 150K to 250K with only routine maintenance. A synthetic oil like Mobil One won't do any harm, but is unlikely to improve on the performance of a quality dino oil unless you fit a turbo or move to Alaska.

    Regular oil as recommended in the handbook is fine. Just remember to change it regularly.
  • boredbored Posts: 300
    I know all about the wonderful 4.0L Inline 6 engine, which some say is the best engine ever in production! But, exactly what do you mean by "understressed"? Thanks, Tech Man!
  • mac24mac24 Posts: 3,910
    It starts with the basic design of the engine. An inline six is one of the smoothest engine layouts there is. Add to this the fact that it never has to turn very fast. It makes its power low down in the rev range so its reciprocating parts never have to accelerate and decelerate as quickly as its higher revving counterparts. Think of the loads generated by the mass of a piston as it has to stop at TDC and BDC on each stroke. Finally, compression is low and the burn is smooth.

    It's an old, heavy, slow turning, long stroke, straight six with a lot of torque at low revs, making it the virtual antithesis of a modern, lightweight, high revving, short stroke, V6 which makes most of its power higher up the range.

    Another indication is the is the way it can take substantial power increases without problems. Supercharging is not uncommon and neither are stroker conversions.

    All the above, combined with its proven ability to run to high mileages with only regular service, indicate it's running nowhere the limits of its capabilities.
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591
    Thanks, Dude. I knew the good old 4.0 was a great engine and long-lived, but your technical break down of the reasons why was very enlightening. YOU DA MAN!

    I guess it's overkill, but I DO like the Mobil 1 oil, and that's what Thelma Jane gets. I like it for its cold flow characteristics, and I DON'T use it for extended drain intervals. I still try to get the oil changed at 3000 miles, but I NEVER let it go past 4000 miles, even with the Mobil 1 oil.

    I guess I have told this story before, but you guys know how old people are... they tell the same stories over and over. Anyway, I had a 94 Z28 Camaro that had the LT 1 5.7 liter engine. It made lifter noise fairly bad on cold starts. As soon as I switched to Mobil 1, the cold start noise was virtually gone, and the little noise it DID make stopped much sooner than before. It also increased my gas mileage by 5%, and that was not just on a tank or two of gas. I was in the habit of checking gas mileage EVERY time I filled up, so I had a long history of gas mileage for a basis of comparison. I consistently got 5% better gas mileage with the Mobil 1 oil in the crankcase.

    Now a 5% gain in gas mileage is NOT going to begin to save you enough money to pay the extra cost of the synthetic oil, but if the gas mileage has gone up, it must mean that friction has gone down, and that's a GOOD thing.

    I have a GM dealer near my workplace that changes the oil and filter, does the lubrication, and tops off fluids for $5.95, when you bring your own oil and filter. Can't beat that, so I don't bother doing it myself. They allow me to stand right there beside the guy doing the work, so I can see that it is being done properly. I would never allow someone else to change my oil, if I couldn't personally supervise up close and personal. And, they have recently started letting whichever of their regular technicians that is available do the work, not just some kid that does only oil changes.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    I use Mobil 1 10W-30 and the proper Wix filter. I change both at 6000 mile intervals. Mobil states that you can increase your oil change intervals to the longest time/mileage recommended by the manufacturer when using Mobil 1, and that's exactly what I do on all of my vehicles. I think Mac is right about conventional oil; I just like the additional margin of protection that synthetic oils provide.
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591
    Well, buds, I wheeled with a couple guys today that had TJs with the Dana 35 rear end. One real fun thing I like to do is a steep climb with some large loose rocks and a few outcroppings of solid rock. Old Thelma Jane went right on up, bouncing along and spinning her tires at times as rocks were dislodged from under her tires.

    Those guys with the Dana 35s tried it, and I think they could have made it, but with the 35s, you have to be very careful about situations where you spin a tire and then it grabs, and then it spins again, and then it grabs again. That grabbing all of a sudden after spinning puts a heck of a stress on the axle shafts, and these guys were afraid to go on, so they quit trying. One of the guys had 33" tires and the other guy had 35" tires. Neither had lockers.

    That's kinda pushing things when ya run 35" tires on a dana 35 rear end, and a locker would make breakage even more likely. But, the locker is what helped Thelma Jane go on up that steep climb.

    This is why I recommend so strongly that you get a dana 44!

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • JW is a great place to buy if you can't get a good deal from your local dealer. As mentioned above by Mac, first use their quote for leverage with your local dealer and see if it helps. The big question is do you have a trade? I tried to buy my 03 from JW, but they can't give you as much on a trade in as your local dealer will likely give you. After figuring in the trade, I came out $1,500 better by buying at my local dealer.

    Another thing to consider is maintenance/warranty work. Although your local dealer will do the work for you, even if you didn't purchase from them, they may not be as quick to schedule you into the shop or as likely to give you a loaner vehicle if you didn't purchase from them.....
  • I'm thinking about going the minimalist route and getting a Wrangler Sport.

    I remember when the new generation came out in 1996 (as a 1997 model). The reviews were all very positive. They all said how much more refined the ride was than in previous generations, noise had been reduced, and how the soft top was dramatically better than before.

    Now I read Edmunds' review on the 2004 Wrangler, essentially the same vehicle that rolled out in 1996, and they complain quite a bit about the noise and how the soft top flaps around a lot at speed. I wonder if the expectations have changed over the last seven years or so.

    Can some of you guys give me a better idea of what kind of noise we're talking about here? When you drive a soft top Wrangler, top deployed, can you hold a conversation? Can you hear the radio at normal volumes?

    Does the hard top make a significant difference? Lastly, what is faster - deploying and removing the soft top or deploying and removing the hard top?
  • I would say the expectations have changed. Jeeps have never had insulation in the tub which allows some road noise to enter the cabin. Both the soft top and hard top are relatively quiet and allow you to have a conversation, listen to the radio and talk on a cell phone easily. The main thing, if you want to have the least amount of noise, is to get the full doors. The soft upper half of the half doors is not as quiet. I would recommend taking a couple different Jeeps for a test drive for yourself and see what you think. Jeeps are not luxury vehicles and are not as quiet as a sedan, but they are a heck of a lot more fun!

    I would say the time to deploy the tops is about the same. The soft top is a little more involved, but the hard top requires a friend to help you or to have a hoist in your garage. I have the soft top only so I can just zip out the windows and put them in the back lower the top and have everything with me in case bad weather moves in over the course of the day. The soft top can be taken down in less than 5 minutes and put back up just a minute or 2 longer.
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591
    There was supposedly a huge improvement in the soft tops starting with the 01 models. They went to a four ply sail cloth fabric for the soft top, and it is reputed to be MUCH quieter than the old tops. Sorry, but I have no personal experience to share with ya on that, since I have the hard top only. I can tell ya that people who have experienced both the old top and the new top say that there is night and day difference in the amount of noise.

    I have even heard some say that there is very little difference in noise level between the new soft top and the hard top. Probably the folks that say the new soft top is amost as quiet as the hard top have the full metal doors, so the plastic windows flopping around are not a problem for them. I think if I were getting the soft top, I would want the full metal doors.

    Joe, you always have to take "reviews" with a grain of salt. For Pete's sake, they rate a Jeep by the same criteria that they use for cars. That's stupid! They say a Jeep is noisy and rides rough... well DUH! Compared to a car, that is true. People who buy Jeeps are well aware that a Jeep will be noisier and have a rougher ride than a car.

    You asked about the ease of removal of the soft top vs the hard top. I can only talk about the hard top, since that's all I have.

    To remove the hard top, you have to remove six torx bolts, unlatch two latches (above the windshield), disconnect the electrical connector for the rear wiper, and disconnect the line for the rear washer. All of that can be done in ten or fifteen minutes. Then, you need a second person to help you lift that hardtop off. It is very awkward to handle and very heavy (about 140 lbs). It is not something you would want to do every couple days. Once it's off, you would want to leave it off a while, and vice versa.

    Joe, as long as a person understands the sacrifices that have to be made in going from a car or SUV or whatever to a Jeep, and as long as he is willing to make those sacrifices for the pure FUN of a Jeep, then that person will not be disappointed.

    If you know my history from reading posts in here, you know that I was trading all the time, never satisfied for long with whatever I bought. Well, that is over with! I have had my Jeep almost three years, and I wouldn't even THINK of trading her! Three years may not sound like very long, but it's the longest I have had a vehicle since I bought a new 1974 Ford pickup and kept it ten years.

    Do you know anyone that has a fairly new Jeep? Or can ya do some test driving? You need to see for yourself what a Jeep is all about, and then decide if it's really what you want.

    Good luck.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591
    Not sure what part of AZ you live in, but aren't lots of areas out there way too hot for top down or topless Jeepin'? Don't ya want the top up and the A/C cranked up?

    Where this is leading is that I was thinkin' you would probably want the soft top out there. During the heat of the day, you would want the top up and the A/C on, but when the sun gets low, it would be nice to drop the top, right?

    Now you SURE don't want to have to remove the hard top and then put it back on every day, so the soft top would be your best bet. Are there times when you think you would want the hard top? If not, save your money and get the soft top only.

    However, if you think you would have use for the hard top, the best time to buy one is with the Jeep to begin with. A new factory quality hard top can never be bought cheaper than with the Jeep to start with. You might find some used ones, but even they will cost about as much as the dual top option you could have gotten from the factory.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • mtngalmtngal Posts: 1,911
    I have a '98 hard top which has never been off (don't have any place to store it). When I test drove Wranglers back in '98 the soft top flapped quite a bit and was much noisier. There was no way my other half would consider one.

    Recently we test drove an 03 soft top with half doors and I was really surprised. It didn't flap at all and it didn't seem much louder at all. Noise would not be a reason for choosing a hard top over a soft top.

    I would, however, not want the half doors unless I got sliders to replace the windows. The zippered windows would drive me up a wall - imagine getting a shower if you are going through a drive-through in the rain, or using a card-key for a parking lot or other similar situations.

    I do think that the hard top provides better insulation when it comes to heating and cooling. I do know that the hard top doesn't have a problem with 30 inches of snow in one night (something we had 2 years ago) so if you are up in the mountains, that's something to think about. And it seemed like the hard top I test drove the same day as the soft top cooled down faster than the soft top (Bakersfield in the summer is similar to some Arizona locations).

    If I had a garage I'd want the dual top options. Since I don't have one, I'll always opt for the hard top, but that's just me and my situation. Others will prefer the soft top.
  • My wife purchased the History Of The Jeep Brand video on Jeep.com for $3.00. Its a nice video to watch from the beginnings of jeep up to Year 2000. If any of ya'll want to see a well put together video of the jeep brand its worth $3.00....
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591
    How's the Jeep shopping going? Keep us up to date! Hope ya find one soon.

    Might have to get one of those videos... sounds like a good deal.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591
    Jim:

    Hey, have you found any possibilities for a Jeep purchase lately? I'm still keepin' a lookout for one for ya.

    We had a good clean up day at Turkey Bay Saturday. What a gorgeous day it was! Man, I love the fall weather. Lookin' forward to the leaves gettin' their fall colors.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • I've been watching ebay regularly, and bidding on a few. I've noticed the late YJ models and early TJ models are being bid fairly close to each other, but few seem to be making reserve price. I've set my limit at $5,500. That really limits me. But, I did a same kind of limit on my current truck. It took me a year to find what I wanted at the price I wanted, but it finally happened. In fact, I ended up getting a newer truck with fewer miles on it for less money. I have learned that if you wait patiently, and have the cash ready, then you can find a good deal.

    I just looked at a '94 this morning on the way into the office. Pretty much what I am looking for - no options, no frills, but in decent shape. It has 31 x 10.50's on it now, but doesn't seem to have any sort of lift. There is no body damage or rust at all, except for the bottom of the tailgate. I've noticed this on several Jeeps. The drain holes appear to be plugged with the bottom rusted out. Is this common?
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591
    Good deal! You'll find one, I'm sure.

    I can almost guarantee you that you are in range for a 97 or 98 TJ SE, if you will just keep searching. Heck, you might even find a Sport with high mileage on it for that price. For your purposes, strictly trail use, I would get the newest Jeep I could find in my price range, rather than worry about getting a six cylinder. No advantage to the six over the four on the trails, but BIG advantage for the TJ over the YJ on the trails (stock to stock, anyway).

    Have not noticed the rusting of the tail gate that you asked about, Jim. Guess you are talking about the YJs?

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • erickplerickpl Posts: 2,735
    Well, I've finally got the Canyons on my TJ!

    Man what a difference between the stock SE wheels! I put the BFG 30x9.5's on and am happy with it. The A/T KO's are fairly quiet on the road and it handles SO much nicer. Now to find some non-road stuff to play on. heheh

    I put on my new Bestop sailcloth replace-a-top too. The Jeep looks like a totally different truck.

    As for the comparison between tops, the old top had one layer (you could see sunshine through it). The new top has the multi-layer setup that Tom mentioned. It IS much quieter. You can carry on a conversation quite easily now, whereas the old top pretty much required earplugs. I also have the soft halfdoors. Even they are quieter than the originals. I would have preferred sliders, like mtngal mentioned, but I had to wait on that for the time being. Maybe later...

    I am considering finding a hard top and the full steel doors, but I know that'll be quite pricey. I'm assuming I won't find the right color, so they'd have to be painted.

    I have pictures of the 'new' Jeep at Webshots:

    http://community.webshots.com/user/skimblz_

    -Paul
  • nolid5nolid5 Posts: 148
    Looks real nice.
    Big difference from when you bought it.
    Just shows how easy it is to improve a Jeep.
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591
    WOW! That puppy looks NICE! You're doing a great job of upgrading that Jeep.

    Now, it appears, however, that you have forgotten something. THOSE BUMPER CORNERS! They gotta go, Paul. :)

    Seriously, they come off pretty easily without doing them any damage, so you can always put em back on, but you really oughta see what the Jeep looks like without them. Heck, if ya tear one of em up, I'll send you one of mine. You can have ALL of mine, if ya need em.

    Now, a question... is that YOUR Jeep or your daughter's??? :)

    Sounds like what happened with Ross Allen. He started off being my daughter's doggy, but old Grandpa took over.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • erickplerickpl Posts: 2,735
    Thanks for the compliments.

    It is technically my daughter's car, since I sold my Honda Civic Si (which I gave to her) to pay for the TJ. But it is kinda my project car. :)

    I use the my/her possessive pronouns interchangeably. I get to drive it when I want, as long as I ask her first and as long as she doesn't need it for school or work. She has priority on it.

    I was looking at those bumper covers this weekend as was thinking the same thing. Do they just pop out? I'd like to pull them out, but my wife may not want me to. I may just do it and not tell anybody. :) hehehe

    My wife did say that if we moved to Colorado, I could get a Jeep... let's get packed!

    If I was buying one for ME, I'd probably go with a Sport or a Rubi. But thinking about it, I could probably get the X, but upgrading to what I would want in it would come up to Sport range rather easily. So I would definitely get the dual tops (hard for winter months, soft rest of the time).

    -Paul
  • nolid5nolid5 Posts: 148
    Good question, Tom.
    I'm starting to wonder myself. :P
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591
    At one point you mentioned that you might even get a Jeep that is not street-worthy and just not even license it for road use.

    Just thought I would point out something that probably is not in itself important enough to base your decision on, but could be a factor.

    You know there are miles and miles of 300 and 400 series roads all over LBL. These roads are not maintained or only minimally maintained, and they require 4WD in some places. These roads are fun to explore sometimes, but your vehicle has to be licensed in order to legally drive on these roads. Big fine if they catch you on them with an unlicensed rig.

    Since you live only 40 miles form Turkey Bay, it would seem to me to be better to just drive your Jeep over there rather than trailer it. You pull a camping trailer already, right? So, if you wanted to camp AND wheel, you would need to drive the Jeep over there, right? Maybe Momma could drive the Jeep while you drive the truck with the camper in tow???

    Sorry, I'm sticking my nose into your business, ain't I?? Oh well, I just get carried away sometimes, especially when someone is getting a Jeep. :)

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591
    Paul, those corner pieces just bolt on. If I remember correctly, they are torx screws, like so many other bolts on the Jeep. You might need some WD40 or PB Blaster to loosen those bolts (screws, whatever).

    I ain't no biggie to take em off and see if you like the looks better without them. You can always put em back on.

    Can't blame ya for taking such an active role in that Jeep, even if it is officially your daughter's. :)

    Tom

    Have you hugged your daughter's Jeep today?
  • Those are all things I have considered. I know the roads in the LBL require a licensed and insured rig, KY law ya' know.

    My wife absolutely refuses to learn to drive a stick, so having her drive it to the campground is out of the question. My truck is perfectly capable of handling the extra stresses and weight of pulling the Jeep behind the camper, however, I'm not sure if the camper is heavy enough to handle the Jeep. If a Jeep weighs 3,500 lbs, then I know the camper will at least double that weight. Of course, then I'll be getting mighty close to that 20,000 lbs GCWR!

    Does anyone here know the rule for towing tandem with regards to how much more the lead trailer must weigh?

    The rust has all been on YJ's. I haven't been able to physically inspect any TJ's yet.
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