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Jeep Wrangler

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  • gretagreta Posts: 23
    WoW !!! Gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen; You guys could teach Physics 401, or something! Great stuff, love this collective concentration of collaborative collateral ... whatever. Really turns my gears!!! Thanks for the info. Greta
  • greenjeepgreenjeep Posts: 15
    Hello All. Its been a while since I posted anything. Been real busy, but not to busy to enjoy my 04 Rubi (the Frog). I was told to use regular oil for the first few oil changes to allow for engine "break-in". I prefer to use synthetic oil. Question: Will it be okay to use synthetic after two oil changes or should I let the engine get a little more wear/mileage on it before using it? I'd appreciate any advice or opinions you might have about this.

    Also got a "Brute Force" air intake installed. I got this from 4WD catalog. I have noticed a moderate difference in gas mileage and power. I would highly recommend this to anyone who is interested in more power/gas mileage. I expect to better it even further with an aftermarket exhaust in the next few weeks.

    Thanks in advance for any comments about the oil.

    GreenJeep
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591
    Glad you are enjoying that Rubi!

    You would probably be OK in going to synthetic now, but I would suggest waiting until about 10K miles just to be sure.

    I definitely believe in synthetic oil, and Mobil 1 is what I use. I waited until about 10K before switching, though.

    I hope your Brute Force intake is getting the air cleaned up good for you. That's what I fear about those after market intake things. They may be less restrictive, but are they less restrictive at the cost of lower efficiency? I just never have trusted those things.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • mac24mac24 Posts: 3,910
    Your engine should be sufficiently run in by 6-10k to then change to synthetic. Remember though, the 4.0 often goes to 200k on dino oil without a problem, so your main benefits with regard to engine wear will come after that point. On some engines it will reduce friction and therefore give a little better fuel mileage. The most measurable benefit of synthetic oil is in conditions of extreme cold or heat. However, you will do no harm by using it, so don't think I'm trying to discourage you.

    Now for a rather stronger opinion on your AEM Brute Force Intake System. It brings to my mind a different kind of oil..........snake oil! Without launching into a huge diatribe, let me just say that allowing the engine to breathe more freely with a replacement intake can only be effective if the current intake is restrictive in some way. I have only ever seen figures to show this occurs with 4.0 at W.O.T. (wide open throttle). Tom has already commented on the filter. I don't know about AEM, but K&N sell an additional filter sock for use over their conical filters in dusty conditions; should tell you something! Finally, the throttle body spacer that comes with that kit, if it does anything at all, will move a little power from low in the rev range to a bit higher up.

    These sort of changes, at the manufacturer level, would cost virtually nothing to implement. If they actually worked, the benefit to DC would be worth millions in C.A.F.E. benefits, let alone being able to claim better MPG and performance figures to the consumer.

    Oh well, maybe it turned into a diatribe after all! I just can't go along with a recommendation that these kits will improve performance and mpg.

    Synthetic Oil :--)

    Snake Oil :--(
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591
    You da man! I totally agree with you about those after market intake systems, based on all that I have been able to find out.

    Greenjeep, no offense, but that's just the way I feel about those puppies.

    We make automotive filter paper where I work, so I know a little bit about filters.

    Many after market filters are made of pure synthetic materials, so you could say that I am prejudiced against them because they do not use the paper that we produce. Well, that's not why I don't like them, and if they really worked, I would be using one myself.

    The three most important characteristics of a filter are its restriction, its dirt trapping efficiency, and its dirt holding capacity.

    An air filter could be 100% effective in preventing dirt from passing through it if it were made of a non-porous, solid material. Of course, no air could pass through it either.

    Or, a filter could cause vitaully no restriction in the air flow at all, if it had no filter medium in it. But then it wouldn't stop any dirt from getting through.

    The factory filters are designed with restriction and dirt trapping efficiency in mind, and the proper balance is strived for. I'm not at all convinced that the high flow after market filter replacements maintain the dirt trapping efficiency that they need.

    As Mac said, the increased air flow would only do the engine some good if the factory filters were not capable of allowing a sufficient volume of air to pass through them. Who says they are not?

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • mtngalmtngal Posts: 1,911
    Just my 2 cents. I would use synthetic oil, especially if you are not putting the miles on very quickly. I'm still using Dino oil in mine - at first I was changing my oil about every 6 weeks (3000 miles) because I was putting that many miles on. I never changed to Synthetic and now that I have 119,000 miles on the odometer, I'm sort of afraid to change at this late date. I'm also not driving my Noble Black Steed as much (gas is too expensive for much unnecessary wanderings) so I wish now that I had been using synthetic all along. After all, he's got to go another hundred thousand miles before I'll think about replacing him.

    I got the XM Roady yesterday and installed it in the Taco. I had to order the wireless FM Modulator 'cause they were out of them, but it is supposed to be sent - then I can try it out in the Wrangler (I only have an AM/FM in it). Has anyone got any ideas about the antenna in the Wrangler? I don't have a sound bar - it didn't become standard until a year or 2 after I bought mine. After looking at the setup and doing it in the Taco, I think it would be easier to order a second antenna, rather than moving the one in the Taco. So far it works very well, and it is nice to be able to check the traffic when I leave home, rather than waiting until I'm in radio range. I'll like it even better Saturday when we drive to Vegas!
  • twylietwylie Posts: 619
    I added XM to my Jeep a couple of months ago and used a Blitzsafe Micro antenna. I'll link a couple of pictures so you can see the antenna on my Jeep. It's VERY small and while I have mine on top the soundbar, I believe it would fit under the rollbar padding, on top of the rollbar (yes, it is that small!).

    Given the drive you have, I think you'll love having XM in your vehicles.

    http://www.ewylie.com/images/jeep/xmant1.jpg
    http://www.ewylie.com/images/jeep/xmant2.jpg

    -twylie
  • mac24mac24 Posts: 3,910
    You're probably right not to change to synthetic at that high a mileage. It won't damage the engine, but it is likely to start leaking past the seals.

    You should have many tens of thousands of miles left in your engine still, and when the time comes it can still be rebuilt or re-manufactured at a reasonable cost.
  • fairviewfairview Posts: 20
    I got XM a couple of weeks ago and am really happy with it. While I have not secured the antenna in the Jeep, I have moved it around and everywhere I put it, the reception is fine (I have a factory hardtop). From what I can see, a fiberglass or canvas top is no hindrance to good reception.
  • I will agree that just swapping the filter out probably won't gain any power or mpg. It will only last longer than the regular paper filter and thus pay for itself over time in that regards.

    However, swapping out the entire intake tube system and filter has been proven in tests to improve power over most OEM systems. Some OEM systems are extremely restrictive in an attempt to cut down on intake noise. I've seen independent tests where they have gained anywhere from 10 to 15 hp by swapping out the OEM system for an aftermarket high performance intake system. That and the benefit of not having to replace the filter was more than enough reason for me to switch to K&N.
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591
    Welcome.

    I see that good old Steve put you onto this thread from a discussion specifically about after market air filters and intake systems.

    Glad you came and expressed your opinion.

    Good luck with your K&N, and keep it oiled on schedule. You sure don't want dirt getting through. That's my only concern about those things. I don't believe they do much good in most cases, but you darn sure don't want to have dirt getting through the filter.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • mac24mac24 Posts: 3,910
    If it lasts the life of the vehicle, swapping in a K&N or similar will provide savings over the cost of paper air filters. However, you also need to take into account the cost of the cleaning and oiling kits. Also have regard for the fact that K&N type filters pass more air in comparison to a paper equivalent by filtering less efficiently. More air passed = a larger particulate size being passed as well. Tom can probably give you the figures as he's in the business of specifying paper filter media.

    In regard to complete systems I've no problem with the figures you quote. I've seen them myself and don't doubt their accuracy. However, we're discussing the Jeep 4.0 and 2.5 here. The figures often quoted by the aftermarket air tube and filter suppliers invariably apply to big V8 engines tuned for increased H.P. at the top end. Will it add 3-4% (12-16 hp) to a 400 hp engine? I can believe it would. Will it add anything like that to a 4.0 Wrangler engine, and would it be repeatably measurable on a dyno? I very much doubt it. Even if it did, would you notice a 5-7 hp increase at the top end? I don't think I would in my Jeep; a slight difference in wind strength or direction would have a much more noticeable effect.

    I will agree that on a Wrangler there will be a noticeable increase in intake noise though, which for some people is satisfaction enough.
  • mtngalmtngal Posts: 1,911
    Thanks for the link to your photos - the antenna that comes with the Roady is also very small. Right now I have it sitting on the dash and it works reasonably well - I do get some short drops in the mountains when driving north (but better a half a second of nothing than minutes of static!). I think if I were to put the antenna on the roof I wouldn't get those very short drops, but I'm not sure I really want to put it there for security reasons. I don't know why I'm worried about it - I have it mounted right beside the radio so it is very obvious if you look in the window.

    I actually prefer my antenna options on the Wrangler. It sounds like the roll bar is where I'll probably put it - if I put it under the rollbar padding it shouldn't hit the hard top (and I could use the padding to secure the wiring, right?). And thanks, fairview, for the information that the hard top doesn't affect the antenna - I've been sort of worried about that. Now I can't wait to get the FM modulator.

    I had heard that there could be a chance of leaking with synthetic oil, and I don't want to deal with that at the moment. If I ever get the engine rebuilt, could I change over then? I really shouldn't make a big deal of it - I'm doing just fine, and it IS cheaper.

    And finally, my Noble Black Steed will hopefully come back next week with a fixed air conditioning system (my fingers are crossed).
  • Hi All!!!

    Sorry it's been sooooo long since I've been here. This semester of grad school has been particularly tough. For those that don't know me I'm Debbie aka smed from another chat room and I used to post here quite often with my love of the Wrangler. For those that do know me....hey guys long time no chat. :) Congrats to all of those that have gotten their new babies (Jeepies or baby Jeeps :) ).

    Tomster,
    Did you get my email? It was a comic strip that I thought you'd really enjoy. :) ...oh and a big belated HAPPY B-DAY!!!! :) Just gettin better with age right? ;) See ya after your trip. What time do you come by Gill's? I keep missin' ya.

    Twylieman :)

    How've ya been guy? Come back to gill's more often.

    mntngal,

    Hey there gal...How's the Jeep behavin' for you? I hope things are goin well for ya.

    ksuwildcat,

    Welcome from one of the old crew that's been away far too long. I like to hear about everyone's jeepin experiences. It keeps my Jeep dream alive. :) Sorry I'm from Missouri...and even though I haven't attended MU, I still root for the tigers. But I do root for KSU when MU's not playin :)

    Have a great week all and post lots of pics when possible. Oh and...

    Hug your Jeeps for me :)

    smed
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591
    An email, please? Need to discuss something with you off the board.

    Thanks.

    Tom
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591
    Hi Gal! Yeah, it's been a while. Good to hear from you.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • mtngalmtngal Posts: 1,911
    I was thinking about you the other day and wondering how you were doing. Aren't you getting closer to being done with school and getting that Wrangler? I still have the same Noble Black Steed - he's quite dirty at the moment, but only because he's been sitting too much recently.
  • 01r101r1 Posts: 280
    Tom & Mac,

    I replaced my air filter with a K&N filter about 13K miles ago. Should the larger dirt particles coming through be noticeable? I periodically check the housing under the filter (white glove inspection) and have not picked up any dirt/dust yet. Most of my miles have been driven on gravel/dirt roads with a lot of dust. I've been thinking that as long as it's clean under the filter, I should be fine -- do you agree?

    I'm not trying to take sides here with this issue, just wondering if I should throw out that $50 filter and put the OEM filter back. :(

    -Pete
  • mac24mac24 Posts: 3,910
    I'm not against K&N air filters, just some of the applications that they are marketed for. I use one on my aircraft engine for instance. However, I do not, and will not, use one on my Jeep.

    If you're happy that no fine dust is getting through yours, there's no reason to stop using it. However, as I said previously, K&N make a pre-filter sock for their tubular and conical filters because of the problems people have been having with fine dust getting through. You just have to make a judgement call as what you feel comfortable with.
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591
    The way I look at it, the benefits of the K&N are, at best, very minor. The possible consequences are, however, huge. So, in my book, K&N's do not pass the benefit/risk criterion.

    If you keep yours, then, by all means, keep it cleaned and oiled on schedule. Maybe they are just as efficient as a paper filter when properly oiled?

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • erickplerickpl Posts: 2,735
    mtngal, nope haven't installed it but I have all my other stereo system stuff installed:
    - Alpine head unit (will be replaced shortly with XM ready version)
    - Kicker amp powering front and rears
    - Alpine amp powering Kicker sub
    - Tuffy security console housing the sub
    - MB Quart 5.25" speakers in dash
    - Kicker 6x9's in soundbar

    When I do install the XM, I'll be following twylie's suggestion about putting on top of the soundbar (I'll end up putting it under the fabric hopefully). I want it to be concealed.
  • guy21guy21 Posts: 129
    On a recent trip to Steamboat, Colorado we saw a lot of Wranglers with the XM antennas mounted on the rear edge of the hoods. Centered, just ahead of the air intake slots for the heater. Looked like the windshield would still fold down over it if desired.
  • 01r101r1 Posts: 280
    Thanks for your views, I will keep an eye out for fine dust while I continue to use it. Yes, I keep it oiled.

    -Pete
  • dwrestledwrestle Posts: 72
    I like Selec Trac's 4 all time mode, that would be awesom on a Wrangler, and looking at the reviews for wranglers someone said they lke the selec trac 4x4.
  • mac24mac24 Posts: 3,910
    No, the system fitted to all Wranglers except the Rubicon is the Command Trac. The Rubicon system which is similar, but has the addition of locking diffs in the axles, is called the Rock Trac.

    Go to http://www.Jeep.com for an illustrated explanation of how they work.
  • dwrestledwrestle Posts: 72
    Selec Trac would be nice.
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591
    The full time four wheel drive option would be nice in certain conditions, but I wonder if the system would be as durable as the Command Trac? Usually, the more simple something is, the more reliable it is.

    I had a 99 JGC Laredo with the Select Trac, and it was a nice system.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • goducks1goducks1 Posts: 432
    If I remember correctly, though, the rest of your JGC was problematic. A lot of people have problems with the rotors on those things.

    I also seem to recall that Edmunds had a long-term test of a 99 JGC and the Select TRac transfer case broke down and had to be replaced.
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591
    Overall, I guess the JGC was not too bad for reliability. I definitely had brake rotor problems, along with just about everyone else who owned a 99 JGC.

    I had an A/C control module replaced under warranty and a power window motor/regulator (or was it two of them?) replaced under warranty also.

    Don't know about the long term t-case thing you mentioned. Could be?

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • 01r101r1 Posts: 280
    (1) K&N stock air filter replacement for compatible Jeep Wranglers. Make offer.

    Ok, you guys got me just a little paranoid about the fine dust. I checked again yesterday under the filter on the clean side, still no signs of dust. But, when I decided to pull off the black pipe/tube that feeds the throttle body, I noticed a fair amount of fine brown dust (same color as the roads I drive on) coating the inside of the tube.

    I don't know why it didn't accumulate behind the filter (maybe from the slower air velocities there compared to the tube?), but looking at both ends of the tube showed a fair amount of dust. Needless to say, I put the OEM filter back in after cleaning all the dust out. I'll stick with the OEM from now on, thank you very much.

    While poking around, I noticed below, for lack of a better term, the butterfly valve in the throttle body and it was black and oily. I'm assuming this is what they call blow-by from the crankcase. How much is too much of this in the intake manifold? What are the negative performance characteristics caused by this build up (if any) that I should watch for? I wiped out what I could without disassembling anything, but what now?

    -Pete
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