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Ford Expedition

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  • clpurnellclpurnell Posts: 1,087
    last year (before thanksgiving) I got a quote on an expy eb 4x2 5.4l With roof and DVD. Sticker was 41k+ There offer was 33160. I would say a good deal would be invoice - rebates here in texas that is 2k so 34k with no more than 36.5k otd seeing as taxes are 6.25% here
  • mlm4mlm4 Posts: 401
    A few weeks ago I rented a 4x4 '03 Expedition XLT with about 2500 miles on it from Hertz. I actually reserved an Explorer, thinking it would be nice to have 4WD in Boston in January, if needed. When I arrived at my #1 Club Gold space I found an Expy there. My first thought was, "I don't know if I want such a huge vehicle for driving the streets of Boston." But having already driven an Explorer I thought I would give the Expy a try, partially because I was also planning to drive to Cape Cod and Maine over a three-day period.

    Overall, over the 500-plus miles of driving I really liked the new Expedition. I neglected to check which motor it had, but I think it was the 5.4 (since I hear the 4.6 is wimpy). It was comfortable, quiet and smooth and was easy to handle despite it's size. Although the track is only about an inch wider than my '99 Tahoe, it feels much wider than that. I was able to negotiate the narrow streets of Boston, but I wouldn't recommend it for people not used to driving big trucks. Parking requires care and patience. Seats were comfy, driving position was good once I got the adjustable pedals all the way back, and the manual climate controls were touchy but we were able to stay comfortable with an occassional tweak of the temp knob. Fit and finish were good (by Ford standards). Visibility was good, except that I find Ford places the inside rear-view mirror much lower on the windshield (on all their vehicles) than GM does, which obstructs more of my view (being 6'2"). Gas mileage was around 15 mpg (mostly highway miles). My 5.7L V8 Tahoe gets just under 16 city, and just under 18 highway.

    OK, now for the critical review:
    Tailgate is huge, and requires lots of space behind the truck to open it.
    Compass and outside temp readouts not visible to other passengers.
    No front dual-zone climate control available (not counting the rear seat controls).
    I noticed a grinding noise from the front axle. I grazed through the board and found some mentions of it and a TSB, but didn't see any follow-ups. Seems like a common problem?
    Hard to get in and out without either stepping on the running board or grazing my pant legs on it. Being tall, I don't usually use the step.
    Not that a rental would have this, but Ford doesn't offer a satellite radio option on any Expy.
    Dash vent bezels felt cheap when rotated.
    Large side mirrors are nice, but when frozen with a small amount of ice are immobile. No power fold feature.

    Anyway, even though functionally it is a great truck, I can't help think that there are some key luxury features (such as the dual-zone climate controls and satellite radio) that GM offers on it's trucks missing from the Expy.
  • Well the wife won out. Decided to go with the dealer demo 2003 XLT premium with the 4.6L engine with leather, 6-CD, moonroof, safety canopy, and reverse sense. The demo price with Ford rebates just seemed to good to pass up. I just hope I dont regret the smaller engine and that I didn't go with the other XLT with less features but the bigger 5.4L engine. I guess time will tell.
  • I just purchased a new 2003 XLT. My question centers around the proper useage of the 2nd row and 3rd row seat belts. My kids will be sitting in these seats. When they put on their seatbelts should they pull them out all the way and then let the seatbelts themselves retract to where it is tight around them, OR should they just buckle the seatbelt and rely on the seatbelt to auto-tighten in the event of a suddent stop or force. I guess in other words what is the proper use of the seat belts.
  • davantdavant Posts: 294
    Mlm4,

    Glad you liked it. Put your feet up and relax, this could take awhile. I'd like to point out a few things, mostly opinion mind you, but some based on facts you may not be aware of.

    If it didn't feel 'revy' it was probably the 5.4L and your MPG matches up. I do agree it's a big beast but I feel, as I think you do, that handling inspires confidence as it doesn't drive like a nearly 3-ton vehicle. Large but not cumbersome, a fluid balance of nimble versus stable if you will. Steering is top-notch because one of the 100+ improvements for '03 was rack & pinion, not like your Tahoe or previous Expies that have recirculating ball (which way did the road go?). The hood was raised 4" which may exaggerate the feeling that the rear view mirror was lowered. Based on a buddies '02 side-by-side it didn't change but an inch or so. I'm the same height as you and agree, it can obstruct, but at 5,700 pounds, how bad could it hurt...us, LOL? Not that you would find one as a rental but the Eddie Bauer offers digital set & forget temp controls and mirror/seat/pedal memory for two drivers.

    I drove all the GM/Chevy's (except Caddi) before buying an Expie 4x2 Eddie-B with 5.4L. I like the higher torque and (albeit slightly lower) HP at useable/comfy RPM's Ford offers. Not that specs matter that much but compare the RPM's required at peak HP and torque for GM motors versus Ford. GM wins the peak spec race but not the torque one, and at what RPM? Will you rev that high without being laughed at by every other driver? Ford has it where it counts, towing and going with ease under 2,500 RPM's in day to day driving. Not a speed buggy, but strong and capable.

    I agree the tailgate is a whopper when open. I suggest folks who park with the rear close the garage door opening put some cushy weather-stripping on the frame/molding so the paint isn't damaged. I caught this early enough to prevent damage, I hope others do too.

    I never thought we needed a heads up display visible to all occupants showing the time/temp/drivers BP but hey, there's always next year, Ford engineers might be reading this. Driver/passenger dual zone controls (except front back as you mentioned) are there but are cleverly disguised as vent open/close controls, or you can argue over who owns the single knob, archaic but effective. I can't help but wonder how the Amish feel about this?

    There are others who have the 4WD grinding TSB and are satisfied it's fixed, look for that at blueovalnews.com forums if you can't find it here. I adopted a left foot step-board-swing in and hop-out to avoid the dirty pants or scraped legs. Sat-radio? Not anytime soon as Ford still hasn't mastered GPS, one thing at a time, LOL. Side mirrors have deicers, at least our EB does, Navi offers power fold mirrors this year, maybe Expie in '04. I think Lincoln needed that, power running boards, and power tailgate, (maybe a power back-scratcher) to justify the price (Expie x1.3).

    Both GM and Ford build great SUV's as does Toyota/Lexus (^$), and by this time next year maybe Nissan (Titan-in-law). I think Ford is king for now and selling an extended length and 24v power plant equipped model would keep them on the throne. Despite the many features and upgrades GM/Chevy offers, they've become 'stale' (dashboard, antiquated steering) and have resorted to infini-gizmos in an effort to wow & woo buyers. Remember, beneath every silky adorned GM/Chevy full size SUV exterior lies a live axle and leaf springs. I challenge every prospective GM/Chevy buyer to try this test. Drive on a road festooned with small potholes (alternate sides work best) at various speeds short of airborne/warp. Then try the same road in an Expie since they all have Independent Rear Suspension. Now tell me that you like GM/Chevy better! You won't be able too as you'll still be spitting out expensive dental work from round one. Thanks for your patience and postings!
  • davantdavant Posts: 294
    Tony,

    Have all occupants buckle up normally. Don't extend the belts fully so they ratchet while retracting unless you are using a child seat that permanently mounts to the vehicle. Trust Ford's system to do it's job , it's been tested. If you feel like you want to push the envelope securely belt in yourself in plus sack(s) of dog food in rows 2 and/or 3 and do a 15 MPH brake check, you'll sleep better.

    Congrats on the new Expie, you done good. Keep in touch.
  • mlm4mlm4 Posts: 401
    Dave -

    Thanks for your thoughts on the Expedition. I agree that one of the big advantages of this truck over the GM products is the IRS, and I took notice of the great ride with my rental. I'm sure in time GM will do the same -- GM and Ford seem to leap-frog each other with their designs.

    It may sound petty to complain about lack of dual-zone climate control, but the Amish are not paying $35-40k for their buggies either. I have dual-zone in my Bonneville, and my experience is that female body temperatures are always way above or below my (male) temp, so on long trips to keep everyone happy, dual-zone is a great thing to have. Considering that it is now available on the Navigator, why not the Expedition, which is a great long-trip vehicle and has no bargain-basement price either. Just an example. At these prices, I guess I'm just a bit fussy.
  • davantdavant Posts: 294
    Mlm4,

    You're not fussy, you just want everything I want too without having to buy a Navigator. I enjoy hearing about experiences and trying to understand others points of view, thanks for sharing. I've done alot of homework and hope some of it has value to prospective buyers or at least makes a few people smile.

    At least the Expie's optional temp controlled seats give each front passenger a choice to heat or freeze from the bottom up. Reading other posts, even that takes a few minutes to kick in (I think I divorced the frozen bottom one already though).

    I smell a rework from GM soon or they could start lagging. If they're both not careful the next frog leaping could really be a Nissan Unicorn.

    Cheers!
  • I just noticed on the XLT i purchased that two of the tires (one front and one rear) seem to have a "bump" in the rubber on the sidewalls. By bumps I mean that if you rub your hand along the sidewall you can feel a "mound" and visibly see this as well. It's not exactly a bubble but it doesn't appear to be normal. Can somone explain what this is, what the cause is, and if this is something I should addres with the dealership. Could it be caused by overinflation and/or hitting a pot hole?
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,016
    Depends on what you mean by bump. I had "mold" marks on my Kirkland/Costco tires a few years ago. They were noticable from certain angles but had no effect on the tire. They looked and felt like "waves."

    Since you have the same bump on two of the tires, I'm guessing that this is all it is.

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  • Ok so we bought our Expy 2003 on Jan 2nd. I had posted that we had been holding our speed without presing the gas and not changing up the gears appropriately. We have now had it in the shop 4/5 times and have had a loaner (taurus) more time than we have had the truck. It started a ratcheting noise in 2H and a clunk sound when decelerating. they replaced the S clip (?) according to the service bulleting which cleared the ratcheting noise. the clunk, though now a little muffled continues. The gear selection seems a lot better. The mechnanics gav eus the BS lline (I think) that they all clunk like this - its a known problem at Ford and there's nothing we can do about it. I'm sorry but we just paid big$$ for a truck that clunks every time you slow down to a stop or accelerate quickly. Any advice - where do we go from here. my wife wants a new truck....as she is sick of takiing it into the shop and cramming our 3 kids (thats why we bought a truck) into a Taurus.
  • davantdavant Posts: 294
    As in Lemon Law?
  • jrc346jrc346 Posts: 337
    So the only problem that hasn't been fixed is the drive line clunk? I sympathize with you in that your new Expedition has given you grief. It seems like the techs are working to fix the issues and if the drive line clunk gets fixed then your Expy should be fine. If you live in a state with a good lemon law just mention your trouble to the selling dealer. Chances are that if you have them work on the same component 3 times and fail to fix it the 3rd time then you have good grounds for a buy back. If it comes to buy back Ford my just put you in another new Expy to avoid labeling your old Expedition a Lemon. That is just one option. Another option is to give them one more chance to fix it. If they do then you can move on and finally be able to enjoy your Expedition. Its been a while since I have had continuous problems with a vehicle, so its harder for me to relate. I can understand though how your hopes for a trouble free vehicle can plummet after your mess. Something to consider though. I have been floating around these boards for sometime now. There have been two issues that I have noticed with the new Expeditions. 4WD whine (dealer has a fix) and power drivers side front seat problems. So maybe the worst is behind you? I wish you much luck in getting your vehicle working correctly.
  • Thanks for your advice. My concern with the whole Lemon Law thing is that 'they' (dealership and Ford)are now saying that it is 'normal operation' for the vehichle to do this. I have never had any vehichle do this before. If its normal do I have alemon leg to stand on?
  • Not sure if this posted twice but here goes - ford Consume r advise and dealership are now saying that the clunk occurs in all 2003 Expy's and it is 'normal' - they confirmed that even if I bring it in to them there is nothing they can do to fix it...
  • jrc346jrc346 Posts: 337
    If I were you I would do the another website called flatratetech.com. You have to sign up with a screen name and password ect. But there are honest Ford Techs there that might be able to help you out with your problem. If you share your concern they may be able to help out;-) When there is a clunk in your drive line and it doesn't cause any other problems it may be hard to diagnose. Keep in mind I am certainly not a tech so I don't know this for sure...It's just a guess as to why they are giving you this BS. Again I wish you luck. Just try to keep thinking (as hard as it may be at times) that things will get better :-) Keep us updated!
  • Usually for lemon laws you need to prove that the offensive situation has impaired either the safety or value of the vehicle. Saying you do not like the sound or feel of the clunk probably will be a tough sell unless you can tie it to a problem it may cause (also a tough thing since you don't know what is actually making it to begin with). Have you driven others to see how yours compares? If the others have it, then there is going to be little to do beyond what they have already told you. Lots of vehicle lines / models have common chronic problems. Sometimes there is a fix, sometimes not.
  • davantdavant Posts: 294
    I think the dealer is clunk-stumped and feeding you piles of bovine manure (aka guessing). Does anyone who has the TSB still have problems like post #1082? I thought I'd be bummed to have 2WD until now.

    The dealer should share info on problems they're told by mother Ford are expected, acknowledged, blah-blah-blah, everything but acceptable/normal. I think they were normal before the TSB, not after. Maybe the TSB was designed under the 'lets fix 80% of the problem' theory (all ratcheting, most of the clunking). You could e-mail Caroline913 to see what it took to buy hers back as it got to a point the dealer suggested that happen. Making yourself a major pain could put the dealer on your side. You could ask to be hired by the dealership while you're in for service and might even sell a few, offsetting the headaches. During service periods insist on a vehicle comparable to your Expie, even used, they'll do it. It's a darn shame you get no compensation for your time, effort, and discontent and I know that hurts after spending all this money. That's what's wrong with this country, not enough lawsuits...just kidding! You could as suggested, drive another one or more but I doubt the dealer will want their stock as your testbed.

    You certainly have more patience than I do, I would have started to squeeze the lemon awhile back. What's the drawback of doing so? As Alwaysfords said worst case you remain as is with ongoing maintenance & problems, or better yet you get another Expie just like it, best case you get a full refund. The demon spawn mirror memory fiasco is wadding my jockeys but I don't consider it Lemon Law material and a TSB will be out by spring. I think the L/Law is as our brochure sort of says, to provide the consumer relief when the dealer can't correct a defect in three attempts that causes loss or impaired vehicle use, not defective seat heaters/controls or strange noises. I do think you've done the right thing thus far and if no progress is made it's not to late to change the game. Keep us in the loop, lemons are sometimes sweet and sour.
  • Well I was all set to pick up my "new" XLT today. This is a dealer demo with 5k miles on it since it was made last July/August. The dealer was offering it to me at $1,500 below invoice which I thought was a fair price. This was also approx $ 6,500 below MSRP. Additionally I qualified for $3,500 in Ford rebates. So all in all I thought the deal was pretty fair. Now the dilema ... I was supposed to pick up the car today. However last night I stopped by just to look at it one more time before I signed the papers today. It was late and the dealership was closed. To my suprise my soon to be XLT was parked in front of the dealership body shop. Someone apparently backed into it while it was on the dealers lot. Damage included the rear bumper and tail light. The dealer did not inform me of this when I called to arrange for a time to pick up my new XLT this morning. I at first played dumb to see if they would say anything. They didn't and then I brought it up. Their response was that they were going to inform me when I did in fact come in to sign the papers. Now I have been dealing with this dealership for 17 years. I have always had very good experiences with them and right or wrong I will take them at their word for this. After I brought it up they informed me of what happened and said that they replaced the rear bumper today along with the rear tail light. There was no damage to the body or frame as it was only backed into on the lot. They also had to paint the new bumper to match the color of the truck. Soooo ... I said OK then what additional discount can you give to me now that this 6 month old demo with 5k miles on it has been in an accident. The answer is that all they can do is offer me a 5 yr/60k mile extended warranty. I was hoping to receive this plus an additional reduction in the selling price. My questions are as follows: (a) this Expie does have everything in it that I want. A new Expie with the same features will most likely be at a minimum $500 above invoice which means approx $2,000 more then this vehicle. Should I take this vehicle as is with no additional discount? Or should I demand an additional price reduction and if not received take my business elsewhere knowing that I will end up paying $2k more for the same options but for a brand new XLT? (b) do I have any legal recourse here which would require the dealer to offer a new, different XLT with the same features as this demo and at this demo price? As I stated I did not sign any papers yet but my bank, insurance company, and dealer did fax the purchase agreement and insurance binders to each other and I did verbally agree to buy this vehicle so the process was underway.
  • davantdavant Posts: 294
    Tony,

    As you will see or have seen this is a double post too from you know where:

    If you want it and can be allowed to verify elsewhere there's no frame damage, get the best compensation you can and go for it. Since you haven't signed anything you can walk too, no legal recourse as there was no binding contract yet, you agreed to buy the vehicle before the damage anyway. If they waited for you to sign to mention it there might have been. Probably not worth the aggravation of going there though. Don't think the dealer can do much more than they are and it wasn't their fault it happened. They were hesitant it'd blow the deal already so they threw in the extended warranty. Try pushing your luck and ask for the 100K/6yr zero deductible Platinum ESP plan, that's about $2,000 worth I think. Every vehicle is used once you drive away so if they fix the minor damage who will know or care but you? One more thing, pray they don't read this post, LOL
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