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BMW 328i/328xi

absoluticabsolutic Posts: 29
edited October 21 in BMW
After driving SUVs for the last 9 years, with raising gas prices and other factors, I decided to plunge into smaller fun cars. Returned my 04' ML350 and leased myself a 07' 328i (basic with metallic color, memory seats and auto tranny). I test-drove all other types, including the sports package (where I found sports seats very uncomfortable.) The 335i that the dealer had all had sports packages and, after test-driving the basic 328i at about 90mph on a curvy city street, I decided that 230hp is plenty for me.

Now I want to learn things about my new car. While there are plenty of reviews of 330i and 335i, I have not found a single review of basic 328i. I want to know what the 0-to-60 is, I imagine it is in 6 sec range, also what is the top speed, what is the breaking distance, and what is the skidpad with regular 16-inch tires (not the 255s that come with sports package). Is there such a review someone can point to? Thanks!
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Comments

  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Some of what you want can be found on the BMW-USA web site:

    http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/3/328isedan/techdata.htm

    Keep in mind that BMWs numbers are usually a tad conservative. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • absoluticabsolutic Posts: 29
    Thanks, I should have realized to look at BMW's own site. It pretty much has most of the info I was looking for, with exception of skidpad. Is skidpad in 0.8+ zone?
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "Is skidpad in 0.8+ zone?"

    Hmmm, on 205 section width All-Season RFTs? That'd be a stretch, however, it may not be far south of .8. Bump those tires up to 225s (especially if they're GFTs) and my bet is that you've got .8 easy.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • jtlajtla Posts: 375
    test-driving the basic 328i at about 90mph on a curvy city street

    Wow, what city do you live in?

    When I was searching for my next car back in December and January, my two finalists were G35 Sport and 3-Series. Although there was no shortage of review on G35 and 335i, I could not find any test report on 328i. After several rounds of test-drive, I eventually decided on the 328i 6MT with sport package.

    Today, I received the April issue of Car & Driver. Guess what? There it is, the comparo of G35 Sport and 328i!! Both test cars are manual transimmision with sport suspecsion. Here are some numbers for your reference.

    C&D clocked the 328i 0-60 at 6.1 sec -- 0.2 sec faster than BMW's official time. I was kind of disappointed by this number, because for 335i, the test result by most magazines were 0.6 sec faster than what BMW published (4.8 vs 5.4 sec). I had hoped that my 328i would be in the sub-6 seconds. Assuming the same variance, your Steptronic 328i should do 0-60 in 6.7 sec. Breaking 70-0 is 160 ft. The skidpad for the 328i with sport package (which has 17" wheels with 225/45 front and 255/40 rear performance summer tires) is 0.88 g. Can't wait to get my car! :)

    If you did not subscribe to C&D, you may want to go grab one at supermarket, because this might be the only 328i test review you will ever find. ;)
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    The article was interesting. Especially since the article mentioned some family cars were in fact faster then the 328. The 335i 4.7s on the auto tranny vs 328 6.1s using the manual tranny were interesting. I would have like to have seen C&D test the 328 auto tranny.
  • absoluticabsolutic Posts: 29
    I do subscribe to Car and Driver, I am yet to get the April's issue. That is very exciting, it is even better than I thought, with 0-to-60 at 6.1 and 0.88g skidpad.

    I live in Los Angeles and I test-drove the cars at night:) The dealer was a friend of my friend and he simply gave us a bunch of keys and let us just go and test drive any car we want by ourselves which I properly did.

    I did not get the sport package because although I liked the wider tires, I hated the sports seats; maybe my back is too wide, but the sports seats squeeze my body from the sides in a very uncomfortable way, my friend who was a passenger at the time of the test, commented as well that he was uncomfortable. I understand the idea that the seats are designed so that on turns the seats hold you. But for me they were uncomfortable,and I thought, "If am uncomfortable after driving for 10 minutes, what would happen on the four-hour trip to Vegas?" The steering wheel also felt stiffer with a sports package. So the sports package is not for me.

    What I may end up doing, since I leased the car, I will probably just buy myself a set of 225/245 17 or 18 inch tires, similar to those used in the sports package, put the on my car, keep the OE 205s and then put them back in 3 years when it is time to turn the car back. I check on tire rack's site, you can get these tires for under $800 for all four.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "What I may end up doing, since I leased the car, I will probably just buy myself a set of 225/245 17 or 18 inch tires, similar to those used in the sports package, put the on my car, keep the OE 205s and then put them back in 3 years when it is time to turn the car back. I check on tire rack's site, you can get these tires for under $800 for all four."

    Smart move. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • "That is very exciting, it is even better than I thought, with 0-to-60 at 6.1 and 0.88g skidpad."

    Don't get carried away in your reading "excitement". You should either be excited, or not, driving the car - and hopefully satisfied yourself of its capabilities BEFORE buying it. The 328i non-sport automatic is a fine car. But it's definitely not going to match the 6-speed manual, sport packaged version in performance, so why kid, tease or frustrate yourself by reading those reviews after the fact?

    "I will probably just buy myself a set of 225/245 17 or 18 inch tires, similar to those used in the sports package, put the on my car, keep the OE 205s and then put them back in 3 years when it is time to turn the car back. I check on tire rack's site, you can get these tires for under $800 for all four."

    I usually agree with Shipo's comments, but not the "smart move" one this time. It's going to cost you at least 3 times that price to buy 17 or 18" WHEELS and tires for your non-sport 328i. And what will you do with them after the lease expires? - they will be worth next to nothing. Save your money. The sport suspension accounts for more than 50%+ of the difference in handling, more than the tires. Putting low profile soft compound rubber on a non-sport suspensioned car is not a smart move, IMO - financially or performance wise.

    If you were so concerned about performance, you would have been much better off with a 328i sport 6-speed manual. But now that you've made the decision, save your dollars for the next time around and enjoy the car you have.
  • absoluticabsolutic Posts: 29
    :) spiritinthesky, I just realized it myself by talking to another friend of mine that owns wheels and tires business. I did not realize that you cannot put a larger tires on 16 inch wheels (I am in a process of educating myself about wheels and tires). In fact I found out that because of the 16X7, 7 being the wheel's width on a stock 382i, it is impossible to fit anything wider than 205s on it, for instance, you cannot fit a 225 on it.

    I will save my money and enjoy the car that I got:)
  • abfischabfisch Posts: 591
    Could not agree with you more. Not sure why the numbers really matter anyway. And being in a city, well that further compounds the fact that the numbers are not that important.

    If you look in the Bentley Manual for the 3 series whether it is the E-46 or the E-90 or whatever, they actually have nice charts and descriptions of the difference in terms of different engines and suspensions. Putting bigger wheels on the normal suspension, is like kinda putting 22" rims on an SUV. ummm. The SP, basically comprises thicker diameter sway bars, one size down from the M series, both front and rear, and 1" lowered springs. This is besides the tires.

    I would think for a city car, the one he has is perfect, especially if in a northern city and used as an all season car, through, the potholes and snow of the winter season.

    Cheaper performance upgrades can be gotten from removal of the CDV or a strut brace bar, but if it is leased, than why bother wasting that kind of money.

    Enjoy it for what it is.

    abfisch
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Assumption #1: The non-SP 328i with the OEM 205/55 R16 RFTs had already been purchased.
    Assumption #2: Given the reputation of the RFT EL-42s that came as the OEM rubber, the tires would have to be replaced at least once over the span of the lease.
    Assumption #3: That the wheel and tire set (with GFTs) wouldn't cost that much more than a set of replacement RFTs.
    Assumption #4: That the used set of purchased wheels and tires would be worth at least a couple of hundred bucks when the car is turned back in at lease end.

    I just priced out a set of 17x8 ASA AR1 Silver w/Machined Lip wheels ($676 for the set) with a set of 225/45 ZR17 Kumho ECSTA ASX GFTs ($344 for the set) mounted on them. Total cost with shipping and taxes is probably less than $1,200.

    I then priced out a set of the OEM 16" Bridgestones at $676, which isn't too bad in and of itself. However, when shipping, handling, mounting and balancing charges are added in, we're probably talking $850-$900 minimum.

    So, to my way of thinking, assuming that the used set of wheels and tires can fetch $200, the net difference for the upgrade is $150. Money that is fairly well spent if my other assumptions hold true.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • absoluticabsolutic Posts: 29
    Putting bigger wheels on the normal suspension, is like kinda putting 22" rims on an SUV. ummm.

    I have some friends that do that :)
  • absoluticabsolutic Posts: 29
    I then priced out a set of the OEM 16" Bridgestones at $676, which isn't too bad in and of itself.

    shipo, the OEM RFT Continentals are only 100$ a piece at tirerack
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Moving from 16" to 17" on the base suspension shouldn't present any problems, especially if you have GFTs mounted on them. I'm thinking that a set of 17" wheels and 225 section width GFTs will probably weigh the same or less than your OEM 16" setup.

    Will your car with 225/45 R17s handle as well as an SP equipped 328i? Nope, not a chance. Will it be a noticable improvement over your current 205/55 R16 setup? I'm thinking without a doubt.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Hmmm, didn't look at those. Well, that makes the upgrade a little more difficult to justify on purely financial grounds. Oh well, I tried. Shrug.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,128
    The summer rubber is responsible for about 70% of the handling upgrade of the sport package...

    If you take the stock sedan with 16" wheels and upgrade to 17" summer performance tires, you will be amazed at the difference..

    Where does the other 30% come from? 20% from the sport suspension and 10% from the bolstered feeling you get with the sport seats..

    MODERATOR
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  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    And IMO, the suspension is responsible for about 80% of the handling upgrade of the sport package. :P

    I have no experience with the 328i, but when I was shopping the 330i/330i ZHP and 530i/530i sport, you could IMMEDIATELY notice less body roll and tighter handling, even at lower speeds, than the non-sport versions. I'm sure the tires help, but there is no way that a 45 vs. 55 series tire is going to remove body roll and sway from the cars chassis/suspension. And if you have more body roll, that is going to accelerate the wear and decrease the tread life of soft compound tires.

    I own a 2004 TL 6-speed with 17" wheels and 245/45 "Y" rated summer performance tires. If tires made 70% of the difference, I should be able to run handling circles around a 3 series sport. Not a chance.

    Here's another test: before getting a 911, I seriously shopped Boxster S's. Some with the base 18" wheels and tires, others with the optional 19" wheels and tires, others yet with the optional PASM suspension (matched to both 18 and 19 inch tires). I challenge anyone to get into a Boxster S without looking at the wheels and in any test drive they choose, figure out if it has 18" or 19". It was impossible for me to tell. But get into a Boxster S with PASM (1/2" lower ride), the difference between "normal" and "sport" settings was dramatic. Even the GEICO caveman would have noticed that difference. ;)
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,128
    IMO... MO counts for more.... as, I've owned sport and non-sport 3-series.. lol...

    Just kidding....

    But, seriously... it's got to be the shoes.. (to quote Spike Lee).

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • abfischabfisch Posts: 591
    Wrong. Respectfully, wrong. Handling is all about suspension geometry. And the suspension balance and its deviation from its neutral position is what makes one car handle better than the next. Upgrading to summer tires, 1" diameter larger and 10mmor 20mm wider will give an increase in handling but not a majority's worth. 70% is very generous of you.

    Not only could readers refer to a book title "Suspension" but also see CR past articles for increasing tire sizes and lowering profiles on the same cars under like conditions. I believe they used a Honda Accord and a BMW 5 series.

    From all that I have read, and all of my little experience with dampers, sway bars, bushings, tires and springs, the majority of suspension upgrades come from retaining suspension geometry, and that would be springs, sway bars, bushings and dampers. While tires contribute to the overall increase, 70% IMO is misleading. Additionally, for a DAILY driver in a city, which I believe is what the original poster was, in a leased car for 3-4 years, you are talking about an expense of 1-2K, poorer ride qualtiy, usually worse hydroplanning, and fewer miles before another set.

    The entire picture of how the machine is used should be assessed. Just my opinion. But this is a daily driver for a city car, I believe.


    I have a BMW 04 325i MT SP, used for about 5 months of the year. I also have an 02 Avalon, with TokicoHP gas shocks, OEM springs, OEM sway bars with PU bushings for the sway bars and suspension arms(CAB/TAB)with standard size tires and wheels. The transformation of the handling, even in a front driver, is quite apparent, and it has regular wheels and tires. And the vehicle is basically an All Season vehicle with a standard ride height. But the suspension and the ability to retain it now is different, albeit the PU bushing do transmit more vibration in the cabin.

    Just thought I would add to the other side. Not recommending for leased vehicles. For leased vehicles, buy from the factory out of the box, what you can afford, enjoy, for what you use it for.

    Larger tires and wheels have their place, but in concert with other modifications as well.

    abfisch
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,400
    There you go hurting the cave guy's feelings again! I can just see that "Bad Face" look!
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,128
    Aww... it doesn't have to be respectfully... I'm not the host in this forum.. ;)

    My wife has a 330Cic.. No sport.. It comes with 205/50-17 Continental all-seasons.. I put the staggered set-up from a sport package 330i on it, with Michelin Pilot Sports.. already used two seasons on our previous 325i Sport..

    Believe me... it is the tires.. Not the size.. the rubber.. If I could stop sliding around in the non-sport package seat, I could run rings around a sport-package equipped car on all-seasons, let alone another non-sport car...

    I know you can do extensive suspension tuning on any car... I'm just saying (stating?) that in this one particular instance (BMW 3-series), that the major difference is the summer rubber. The suspension tuning just isn't enough to make a major difference.

    Don't get me wrong... the sport package would be worth it, just for the seats.. and, I recommend it.. But, if you want the most bang for your buck, get summer tires... even in the stock 16" size...

    respectfully (I like that..),
    kyfdx
    (not the host here...rag away..)

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    One - 225/45-16 tires will fit on the OE 16" non-sport wheels. A max performance summer tire in that size is the first and best way to upgrade the handling of this car.

    Two - kyfdx is absolutely correct. The difference in grip between summer performance tires and all-season run-flats is like night and day. There may be more roll and weight transfer with the non-sport suspension, but grip is still grip. Tires first, then suspension.

    If I owned this car, I'd pick up a set of 225/45-16 Yokohama ES100's and head for the track!
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I originally considered recommending 225/45 R16s, however, using those tires would introduce a nearly 4% speedometer and odometer error on the high side (i.e. indicating faster speed and registering more miles than actual).

    The 225/45 R17s are pretty much bang on when compared to the OEM 205/55 R16s in the diameter and revs per mile department.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,400
    Would the lower profile tire give the handling advantage given the same wheel diameter and usually slightly larger section width? I always thought this to be true and would max out the recommended tire/wheel size.

    Also, what is the max tire/wheel combination for an E90 without any custom fit for brake clearance? This would be to achieve best grip for a stock set-up. Let's assume HP summer tires.

    Advantages/disadvantages?

    Regards,
    OW
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,312
    a fun & helpful thread. The 328 sports wagon is currently at the top of my shopping list. Nothing I've read here so far makes me want to reconsider.

    Party on.
  • absoluticabsolutic Posts: 29
    I originally considered recommending 225/45 R16s, however, using those tires would introduce a nearly 4% speedometer and odometer error on the high side (i.e. indicating faster speed and registering more miles than actual).

    could you please explain? What are you basing this info on? How would using wider tires produce a false reading on odometer? Obviously it is a concern since I only have 10,000 miles a year according to my lease and I don't want to go over. 4% is a significant number.
  • absoluticabsolutic Posts: 29
    One - 225/45-16 tires will fit on the OE 16" non-sport wheels. A max performance summer tire in that size is the first and best way to upgrade the handling of this car.

    are you a 100% positive on that? I was under impression that because the OEM wheels are 16X7, you cannot mount a wider tire on a 7-inch-wide wheel. I was told so today by my friend who makes custom wheels. Also, if you go to tirerack's site, 205 is the only size they show in 16 inches for this car.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    shipo - You're right. I should have written 225/50-16.

    absolutic - Stock tires for my BMW are 205/55-15 on stock 15X7 wheels. I run 225/50-15 R-Comp tires on them for track events. They fit perfectly.
  • absoluticabsolutic Posts: 29
    absolutic - Stock tires for my BMW are 205/55-15 on stock 15X7 wheels. I run 225/50-15 R-Comp tires on them for track events. They fit perfectly.

    Stock tires for 328i are 205/45-16. Are you saying then, 225/40/16 tires should fit? Do you know any 225/40/16?
  • Well your opinion doesn't count as much as mine, since I've owned 6 BMW's, including an original M1 and my current 2003 M5. :P

    IMO, with a lot of seat time to form it, BMW sport vs. non sport suspensions on the 3 series and 5 series sedans are definitely more significant of a handling upgrade than can be achieved with just a wheel/tire upgrade on the non-sport versions of both. I agree that the run flat tires suck, but if you throw them out of the equation, as habitat said, upsizing your wheel diameter an inch and going with lower profile tires doesn't do a DAMN thing to reduce the body roll of the vehicle.

    You may want to recheck the example of your wife's 330cic. I believe all 330i coupes have the sport suspension standard. The reduced cost sport package on the coupe simply adds the upgraded tires.

    Fedlawman: "Tires first then suspension" :confuse:

    You should be banned from all BMW forums for a month. :surprise: Frankly, that sounds like what the idiot engineers at Lexus must have thought when the inital GS400 came out. They offered low profile summer tires on a wallowy suspension and ended up in a class action suit for obscenely short tire life.

    You can put the best tires in the world on a E-class and it won't handle as well as a base 5 series. You can put the best tires in the world on a 5-series base and it won't corner as flat as a 530i sport.

    I will concede that bad tires will undermine a good suspension. But good tires will not make up for a bad/soft suspension.
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