Towing tips for SUVs

paisan

Personally I rather have a mechanical system on the trailer mostly due to corrosion problems of the wiring. I've had my lights/connectors for thelights etc. corrode often on my trailers. While not 100% safe, if your lights fail it's not likely to cause an accident, however a corroded wire to the brakes is much more of a serious problem. A mechanical system could corrode, but chances are that it won't corrode so much as to have the system not work. Much like the reason we don't have Brake-by-wire yet on cars, the reliability just isn't there.

-mike

heatwave3

akroeger: you might want to check into your neighbor's brake setup. I've trailered boats for nearly 20 years and have NEVER seen electric boat trailer brakes on any boat ramp in the Northeast. I suppose its possible but I can assure you that paisan is right on the mark with his views on electric brakes. Its tough to get your tralier lights to work for a full season without some repair. I would bever want electric brakes on a boat trailer for this reason alone.

swschrad

have never seen a hydraulic system on the trailer along with electric brakes on the trailer. the hydraulic tap was common for the brake controller before we went to the safety split-braking system. now nobody dares to mess with it.

and yeah, I've never seen them either on a boat trailer, just on utility and camping trailer rigs.

roadrunner70

ANYONE WHO IS TOWING WITH A HIGHLANDER, AND HAS BRAKES, PLEASE REPLY. I HAVE A QUESTION REGARDING HOOKING UP THE BACK UP LIGHT FOR THE BRAKE LOCK OUT SOLENIOD. THANKS. HAROLD.

paisan

Well I logged some serious tow time with my Trooper this past weekend. Put on about 400 miles towing a 2100lb car carrier trailer and about 500 miles with a 2900lb car on that trailer. The trooper did very very well. with the 2100lb trailer it was like it wasn't there at all, and this was going from NYC-> Pittsburg over the Mountains of PA. Averaged about 70mph on the way out with top speeds of 80-90+. No control problems etc. On the way back with my new XT6 on it, the only problems I encountered were @ speeds over 70mph on downgrade turns. It had a tendancy to sway a little. I think this was due to the fact that it wasn't 100% weighted properly (backed the car onto the trailer)

I was using 2wd to tow it and had no problems. I flipped on TOD for a few miles of rain. Milage was 15mpg un-ladded (2100lbs) and 12mpg ladden (5000lbs) I have 275-70-16 Pirellis Scorpion AT tires, Rancho 9000 shocks set at 4/front 5/rear during laden rides 4/front 3/rear unladden, and OME rear springs. With the car on the trailer it was about 3/4" from the bump stops with very little sag.

abc246

I bet your post makes people feel safe knowing nuts like you are on the road. I have towed 3 trucks on carriers with my Blazer (about 5600 lbs) through the small PA mountains. The highest peak in PA is only around 3000 feet! Power is not an issue, sway is. You are lucky that nothing happened at those speeds.

paisan

70 was about the average, and I wasn't out of control. I am not a nut, maybe you are but I am not.

-mike

boxtrooper

I think feeling in control is missleading at high speeds with a trailer. I tow with a Trooper also and It is 4000# and about 30 feet long. Yes, I do go 70 mph to get there fast and to keep up with traffic. I feel in complete control. I don't get sway even when passing trucks or being passed by trucks. Still, I am very aware that any sudden large tug from the trailer could cause me to lose control. At 70 mph the time between losing control and having a serious accident is going to be very short, maybe not enough to regain control. I think that is why all the towing instructions I have found say keep it below 55mph. But it is very nice to take chances and go 70mph to get there quick. I think the Trooper suspension provides one of the most stable towing platforms of any vehicle smaller than a Suburban, based on what I have read from various owners of other kinds of tow vehicles on line. I think the Trooper is much better for towing than a full size conversion van with a marshmallow suspension, even though the van is much larger it allows so much slop in suspension that sway is a problem.

paisan

I was towing a car trailer that had very little wind resistance. With my 3500lb boat trailer which is single axle and no brakes I usually don't go above 60-65 and I can feel the wind a bit more on that. When I had just the car carrier w/o the car on it (@ 2100lbs) it was like it wasn't there at all. I also feel the rear OME springs, 275-70-16 tires, rancho shocks and poly busings definitely help out towing a lot.

-mike

abc246

You mention speeds of 90+ towing, who is the nut? Even if you do not kill someone else you will inconvenience the rest of us when they close the highway to scrape you off of it.

paisan

Was a peak speed on a long straightaway with an empty trailer. Tell me you haven't sped before?

-mike

li_sailor

Yeah, but do you really need that SUV?

Oops...wrong forum. ;-)

Seriously, going 90 while towing seems a bit...risky. I don't recommend it. But it's good for folks to know that the Trooper does so well.

paisan

Long time no hear, I un-subscribed to that other topic, felt it had run it's course. You'd be proud of me, I did almost 1000 miles towing with the trooper last weekend. I was even out in LI towing a car for a buddy from Deer Park-> Brooklyn!

-mike

li_sailor

Ok...you did say 90 was on the way out empty.

But...70+ on downgrade turns fully loaded??? Hmmm...are you into hedge funds, too? ;-)

li_sailor

Hi Mike. Nah, IDLSWDY is still sputtering along...we're back on safety again. I'm sure we'll get back to mpg soon.

acanzoneri

Does anyone have a Highlander that tows a boat?
If yes, how well does it pull it out of the water?
Does it have a hard time or does it pull it right out?
How fast can you go on the interstate?

paisan

If it's a Jon boat I'd say no problem. A 30' performance boat I doubt...

-mike

bigboy8

Any advice on towing packages....from Acura versus others. Best to stay with factory recommended kit?

paisan

My recommendation is not to tow over 2000lbs, even with the kit. If you must, then get the factory/dealer kit that way there is no way they can try to trump your warranty in the event (likely) failure of your transmission which is supposed to be pretty weak on them.

-mike

jps6

I'd like to buy a reasonably priced 1991 Bronco locally. It's a 5.0 liter eng. 4X4. It does not have the "towing package" however.It will be towing a starcraft pop-up with a gvrw of 2930lbs.
questions: is this a poor choice of vehicle {shorter wheelbase (104") -or with a class 3 hitch and properly wired is it okay? Will I need to have a tranny cooler installed? I know factory tow packages also include a bigger radiator and other goodies. How big a factor is that considering it's a pop-up. Thanks for the help!!!

paisan

I think they were rated at about 5000lbs at least towing capacity. I've towed with a '83 Dodge Ramcharger with a 318 in it and it towed about 3500lbs with ease. Make sure the trailer is properly balance with not too much or too little tounge weight and you'll be fine.

-mike

excursionman3

For all of you towing with standard sway bar systems. You have to go out and purchase the Hensley Hitch. It is un-believable. I have a Ford Excursion and pull a 31' TT 9600K loaded and get ZERO sway. It pulls beautifully.

paisan

Do you have a link for that?

-mike

excursionman3

Mike
The e-mail address is www.hensleymfg.com/

-David

paisan

-mike

mavx

Hi all.. I have a 2000 Excurison v-10 and a 5500 lb 32" trailer (Jayco). I got a WD hitch with the unit and no sway control. I would rather not pay again for a hitch system but rather just improve my sway control. I was wondering if the reese dual cam will only work with reese systems or shoud I just go with one friction sway bar and call it a day?

Thx MavX

onebuc

Have a 2001 Tahoe LS, with Tow and Traction package. When towing a double axle boat trailer at about 4000#, The trailer starts swaying dangerously at about 58 MPH. It also seems to sway as I let off the accelerator approaching turns, no brakes applied at all. This is happening to a boat/trailer combo that I have had for 5 years, and towed and still tow with no problems with an F150. I have made several trips over 200 miles with the pickup cruising 60-65 MPH and no problems. I still prefer to take the Ford, even on short trips, because of the problem. Is this something the Tahoe could be responsible for? or is it the trailer? my only guess is maybe the distance from the truck tires to the trailer tires are different.
Any thoughts.
Thanks A Lot

heng

Just a guess. Everything is the same with the boat and trailer, same tongue weight. The only thing different is the tow vehicle.

With the trailer hooked up to the Tahoe, is the height of the ball from the ground the same as on the F150? I have a theory but want to check this fact before shootin my mouth off.

onebuc

I actually had to get a ball mount with a 4" rise on it to make it happen. Still same problem.
start shootin

catam

2 are correctable, the other isn't.
Check the tire pressure on your Tahoe. I would reccommend inflating to maximum cold PSI, probably around 45PSI depending on what tires are on your vehicle.
The other is the weight over the rear wheels. The F150 has an empty bed, with a truck leaf springs for suspension. Most trucks ride smoother after some weight is added to the bed, due to suspesion design for hauling weight. The Tahoe has a SUV goodies like seats AC ducting, interior pieces, etc. that all add up to larger weight over rear wheels. Then this is all on a coil spring suspension tuned for smooth ride not heavy towing. The easiest and best way to correct this problem is to get a weight distributing hitch. These can be bought at any trailer shop, and some are available with anti-sway properties. I'd reccommend getting one for your tow vehicle regardless of what you find is causing the problem. There is nothing you need to add or modify on the Tahoe, the additional hookups are placed on your boat trailer. It is money well spent.

The other is the wheelbase length on your Tahoe vs the F150. Get out a tape and measure from center of front wheel to center of rear wheel.
If the F150 is significantly longer this might contribute to towing difference.

paisan

I would have posted the same thing. You can also try to correct it by shifting around weight in the trailer.

-mike

heng

Does that mean the TAhoe's tail is low (dragging)with the tongue weight on it? If it is then what catam is suggesting is definitely the way to go.

onebuc

I also got some good advice from the Tahoe page. I will be looking into everything to get this corrected before a much anticipated fishing trip to the keys. Will post update later. Thanks again

smartichoke

Any advice on any good, reliable, etc electric brake controllers. Have 2 trailers that I pull occasionally. One with single axle and other dual axle. Have 2002 Yukon 5.3, 3.73, 4WD. Thanks in advance for any advice and your time.

paisan

I will be getting a dual axle trailer with electric brakes and will be looking for something similar. How do they work? Can they be installed in-line with the wiring harness or does it have to get spliced into the cockpit?

-mike

pamo

bigboy8 - I've been using my MDX to tow 20' mastercraft for about 1 year. Has performed beautifully. Had a problem with the electrical connection in the hitch - needed to have a part replaced (under warranty) - and have had no further problems.

bruticus

Hello. I looked for a specific thread on payload, but this is closest I could find (if there is one that somebody knows about please let me know)

My sister wants to trade her car for a smallish SUV (Jeep, Honda, Mazda, she will pick whichever feels right to her) but is aware that there are limits to the amount of stuff you can put into one of these and still drive safely.

Can anybody help me explain to her what is meant by GVWR, payload, tow capacity, tongue weight, etc? My current understanding is that GVWR is the max the vehicle can safely weigh including all passengers, luggage, etc (things INSIDE the vehicle and on the roof rack), and the actual amount of stuff you can haul is equal to (GVWR-curb weight), stated as "payload" in vehicle specs.

How does towing factor into this? Let's take an example: 2003 Explorer (just the 1st one I clicked on).

Under dimensions, weight is listed as 3963; this is curb weight, right? Payload is listed as 600, meaning GVWR=(3963+600)=4563 pounds. That means this vehicle is fully loaded when carrying 3 average Americans?

Then max tow capacity is 4940 lbs; could this vehicle carry 600 lbs of payload and also tow the 4940 lb trailer?

Thanks

DjB

paisan

The GVWR is usually listed in the Owner's manual and/or the door jam. The weight listed is the dry weight and may or may not include a driver. In the example above if the GVWR is 4563 and the weight is 3963 leaving 600lbs for:

Passengers

Gear

etc.

The towing capacity is how much weight the trailer can be, this doesn't come out of the GVWR but in general 10% of the trailer weight is the tounge weight, so a 4940 trailer would have a tounge weight of 494lbs. which is subtracted from the Payload.

So for the example above on the Explorer:

GVWR: 4563

weight: 3963

payload: 600

Towing capacity: 4940

tounge weight: 494

This would mean 600-494 = 106lbs for the passengers + gear in the truck.

A GVWR of 4563 seems very low for an Explorer IMHO. I would think it would be up near 5500 or more.

I just looked up on http://cars.com which has real good specs on vehicles my 2000 Trooper.

GVWR: 5510

weight: 4500

Payload: 1010

Towing: 5000

That means 1010-500 = 510lbs for gear and people inside the vehicle when towing a 5000lb trailer with a 500lb tounge weight.

You can measure your tounge weight by placing the tounge of the trailer on a bathroom scale if the scale has enough capacity for the trailer you are planning on weighing. Also a trailer place could weigh it for you and let you know. The general rule of thumb is 10% of the trailer gross weight = tounge weight which in turn is subtracted from the payload of the tow vehicle.

-mike

paisan

A beginner's guide to towing.

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/Equipment/towing/index.htm

-mike

swschrad

there is "towing," like pulling a little rent-a-cart home with a little bark for the edges of the garden, and there's TOWING in which you can't lift the tongue of the trailer if the jack breaks off.

my exploder had a real good rundown on the load factor issues in the towing section of the manual. alas, ford doesn't put any sort of load control info in online vehicle selection stuff, or in brochures. it's quite uncommon to find it in any of the sales stuff, frankly. if you can't find a sales person who knows this down pat, keep looking, don't take "close enough" as an answer.

for instance, gross vehicle weight rating of my machine with the tow package is 11,000 pounds. the curb weight is something like 5380 pounds with all fluids full, all the mats and tire-changing tools, and two people. this means you can at the absolute maximum safely load up another 5620 pounds at all points. two more people, 165 pound average, and 500 pounds of camping crud means the vehicle can handle at the most another 4800 pounds. I seem to remember at this awful hour of night that the usual calculation of weight distribution is 10% of the towed weight should be on the hitch, so max 480 pounds of hitch weight on the 4800. a little less may be great if you have an equalizer hitch.

and that means ALL of the load... not just the trailer, but the water in the drinking and blackwater tanks (along with the usual "other"), the food in the fridge and the shelves, the crud in the drawers and cubbies, the extra pillows, the cat litter, wheel chocks and charcoal, fishing rods and barley pops, the whole bit, in 4800 maximum pounds. ford also lists a maximum recommended wind front of 50 square inches before you need to go to a sway-control and equalized hitch system.

and I strongly believe if you have any questions about whether you are pushing the load capacity, you weigh the trailer without the junk added at a commercial scale. if you're close to the line and need more than two trips up from the basement to load up, you're overloaded.

if you're pulling more than one ton, you really ought to be using an equalizing hitch no matter what you tow with IMHO.

basically, serious towing means serious added equipment. you can get lots of pickup trucks that can't tow their own weight as shipped, you can also get trucks from the big three that can tow 11,000 or more pounds of load in addition to a seats-full truck. the difference can be twice the price of a comfy standard truck, and you can't bolt it all on after the fact. the engine, tranny, brakes and tires, multiple cooling systems, and frame and suspension are not affordably upgraded aftermarket, except for booster springs and heavier shocks, and that all factors in.

jv312

Well said swschrad, well said. It amazes me how and what people tow with nowadays. All I can add is when you are towing, expect the unexpected, like that nimrod that just pulled out in front of you! doh!

rsholland

is also one of the few automakers who does not "require" trailer brakes over a certain trailer weight. I've checked my '98 Explorer's manual, an '02 Explorer's manual, and a '03 Expedition owners manual. They do mention trailer brakes, but nowhere is it mentioned that they are required.

Most mid-size pickups and SUVs require that any trailer over 1000 pounds must have brakes. GM requires any full-size pickup or SUV pulling a trailer of over 2000 pounds, have trailer brakes. All GM light trucks/SUVs mention these trailer brake restrictions in their sales brochures, as well as in the owner's manuals.

Bob

paisan

Yep it's the same FORD though that told people to underinflate their tires on Exploers, do you think you can trust em?

-mike

catam

Nearly every state in the country requires trailer brakes on your trailer if the load exceeds certain levels (usually 2,000 lbs or less depending on the state).
Maybe the cop won't give you a ticket, because Ford said you were safe. LMAO.

Perhaps the laws of physics do not apply to Ford vehicles???

paisan

http://www.boatus.com/towing/towlaw.htm

Thanks to bob a while back.

-mike

rsholland

This was e-mailed to me by a friend. Judging by the size of the boat, I would say this truck had a Class IV hitch. It could be a Class III, but I would suspect a Class IV is more likely.

Bob

paisan

I've seen that @ several places.

-mike

tkevinblanc

With the angle that is at, it must be hanging by the chains. I don't see how the ball could still be in the coupling... unless the draw bar bent.

rsholland

http://www.auto.com/industry/trail27_20020627.htm

mortpeaberry

don'tcha find it interesting that all those bystanding tourists are there at cliff's edge?
but for realism sake it does look like a bayliner (are those fenders still hanging on the outside of the hull?)
steve-v